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Thread: Comparing "Alcohol Related" vehicle accidents to firearm murders

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bearhawk's Avatar
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    Comparing "Alcohol Related" vehicle accidents to firearm murders

    Below is what I have in a MS Word file and a PDF (minus the original tables/charts from their respective sources) but I can't seem to get them to attach. Sorry the formatting gets funky in the text version here. I don't know whether to keep it with the commentary or not? I'm thinking of making a non-commentary study and send a copy to each member of our state Congress and also to those in the federal congress. Anyhow here it is:
    -----------------------------------------

    I have long wondered what the comparison truly is between fatal crashes caused by alcohol related and alcohol impaired drivers vs. how many murders were committed with firearms. Not just handguns but firearms in total. This is important because alcohol impaired crashes causing a fatal accident and murders both are crimes that end with someone dead. This comparison is quite important and valid.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration considers any crash involving a person driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) greater than .01 g/dL to be alcohol related. If the BAC is .08 g/dL or greater that person is driving impaired.

    I break down the numbers with respect to alcohol related and alcohol impaired. A much more compelling case could be made if we were looking at anytime someone was driving unlawfully and killed somebody. This would include those where people were killed by those without valid driver’s licenses, those texting while driving (where illegal), those talking on cell phones (where illegal), those who were speeding while driving, those driving recklessly and those who were driving while illegally in this country. I’m only including the ones alcohol related and alcohol impaired because just that alone is stark in comparison to the number of people murdered with firearms.

    I quote my sources so you too can verify that they are what the NHTSA and FBI reported.

    According to the NHTSA statistics from printed page 32 (pdf page 48) of
    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811402EE.pdf

    Persons killed in “Alcohol Related” and “Alcohol Impaired” accidents
    Year BAC > .01 g/dL BAC > .08 g/dL
    2005 15,985 13,582
    2006 15,970 13,491
    2007 15,534 13,041
    2008 13,826 11,711
    2009 12,744 10,839

    --------------------------
    According to the FBI CIUS (Crime in the US) 2009 data taken from http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...rtable_08.html

    Persons Murdered by Firearms:
    2005 10,158
    2006 10,225
    2007 10,129
    2008 9,528
    2009 9,146

    First, one might say the numbers only show murder and leave out suicides by firearms. I thought about that and rationalized the amount of drunk drivers that were drunk only for the purpose of killing themselves would be so low it would have only a negligible effect at best. Also, I am not including people killed by a vehicle while the driver is driving illegally as I listed above.

    Now, let’s take these numbers to put things into a clear perspective to see how much more likely you will be killed in an alcohol related accident than by a firearm:

    Deaths by: 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 5 yr avg
    Firearms 10158 10225 10129 9528 9146 49186
    Alc. Related 15985 15970 15534 13826 12744 74059
    Alc Impaired 13582 13491 13041 11711 10839 62664
    Related/F-arm 1.57 1.56 1.53 1.45 1.39 1.51
    Impaired/F-arm 1.34 1.32 1.29 1.23 1.19 1.27

    As you can see, the average between 2005 and 2009 (most recent data available that I could find at the time of writing) you are more than one and a half times more likely to be killed by someone who has been drinking than you are by a firearm and more than one and a quarter times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver.

    We all know guns cause fatalities and we must ban them. Common Sense says we must ban all vehicles to stop the drunk driving fatalities. We must do it for the children! Yes, I am being sarcastic. The US must start placing the blame for all crimes right on the perpetrator whether that be a murderer with a gun or a murderer with a car. It is not society’s fault, it’s not the school’s fault, it’s nobody’s fault but the perpetrator and usually it’s an innocent victim that died. Don’t forget the victim and their loved ones.

    For some reason our society, media, and government will dismiss the fact that many more people are killed by alcohol related crashes than are killed by guns. Personally, I know of several folks who would like to ban guns but those exact same people will readily admit they occasionally drink and drive. That is tragic. My guns have never threatened to kill anyone…can you say the same about your car?

    Driving a car is not in the bill of rights and is not a right. Drinking alcohol is not a right. However, “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Emphasis on "right of the people". It is now the time to ban cars and alcohol folks!

    J Waltermire
    2/12/11
    "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured...
    but no one must prove they are a citizen!” Ben Stein

  2. #2
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I think you for your time and effort on this, and I do like it. Although I am now doing my research on the 21st Amendment to the Constitution, about the right to drink. I assume you are correct, seeing all of your research, but I would like to double check, before you send it on. Again thank you and GREAT job!

    Okay I'm back, it seems that the 21st Amendment to the Constitution only makes it legal for State, County, and local governments to legalize and control alcohol within their districts.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 02-12-2011 at 02:28 PM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bearhawk's Avatar
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    Hi Eastmyers,
    Thanks for reviewing it. The text file doesn't do it justice without the actual govt. charts.

    I've had the gut feeling for a long time that alcohol related car accidents happened more than murders with firearms. I didn't know where to look for the gun data until I was reading "Gun Control Legislation" by the "Congressional Research Service" (the policy and legal analysis branch of the Library of Congress), by William J. Krouse, Specialist in Domestic Security and Crime Policy. You can find the document here http://www.scribd.com/doc/48382988/G...ationFeb3-2011 Anyhow, while reading their statistics I saw they got them from the FBI's CIUS. I did a search and came up with data.

    Every gun owner should read "Gun Control Legislation" because it wants to bring back the crap legislation that our govt under Bill Clinton brought us with the semi-auto "assault rifle" ban, large mag bans, etc. The report is also proposing banning or requiring the registration of certain long-range .50 caliber rifles, which are commonly referred to as “sniper” rifles.

    Your representatives and senators are reading it. You should too and counter-act it.

    We must get the word out to non-gun owners that guns are not as dangerous to them as people driving after drinking. You're one and a half times more likely to be killed by someone who has been drinking and driving than you are with a gun. I also want to show that banning guns is the equivalent of banning cars to cut down on drunk driving. It doesn't get to the heart of the matter. Irresponsible behavior has consequences and it often hurts the innocent.

    I don't have any problem with you if you drink. You are free to do that and I don't mind hanging out with you while you drink. Just don't get behind the wheel. I don't have a problem if you carry a loaded gun (I'll join you actually) but don't pull it out waving it around with your trigger inside the trigger guard unless you have actually been threatened with lethal force.

    We need to get the non-gun owning people on our side to see it's nothing but an unconstitutional power grab. I would guess that a lot of Tea Party folks are on our side but I'm sure there's a fair amount of them that aren't gun owners. I want those folks to see that guns aren't nearly as big a problem that the govt and the media want to portray them to be.
    "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured...
    but no one must prove they are a citizen!” Ben Stein

  4. #4
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Something I find even more interesting is the issue of children... as we heard in some of the comments regarding the Lansing Library Gun Ban: "The person with the firearm sat in the "Young Adult section!" or even better: "There are children in the library!!"
    Well, how many of those same people who wouldnt allow their child to go to a library because someone MAY be carrying a gun would have no problem sending them over to the neighbor's pool for a swim or bring them to the lake for some fun in the water? Don't they know that we ought to ban standing water anywhere there may be children present?

    “From Freakonomics":

    "In a given year, there is one drowning of a child for every 11,000 residential pools in the United States. (In a country with 6 million pools, this means that roughly 550 children under the age of ten drown each year.) Meanwhile, there is 1 child killed by a gun for every 1 million-plus guns. (In a country with an estimated 200 million guns, this means that roughly 175 children under ten die each year from guns.) The likelihood of death by pool (1 in 11,000) versus death by gun (1 in 1 million-plus) isn’t even close: Molly is roughly 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident at Imani’s house than in gunplay at Amy’s."
    Last edited by DrTodd; 02-12-2011 at 06:58 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    My suggestion--

    If you are going to send this on to our representatives I'd lose the sarcasm. Keep it factual and professional.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  6. #6
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    This is from an email, so I have not fact checked it, I will attempt too, but I thought its worth the post.

    Subject: Fwd: Accidental Deaths





    Doctors vs. Gun Owners

    Doctors

    (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is

    700,000.

    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians

    per year are

    120,000.

    (C) Accidental deaths per physician
    is

    0.171

    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of
    Health and Human Services.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Now think about this:

    Guns

    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.

    is

    80,000,000.

    (Yes, that's 80 million)

    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths

    per year, all age groups,

    is

    1,500.

    (C) The number of accidental deaths

    per gun owner

    is

    .000188

    Statistics courtesy of FBI


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So, statistically, doctors are approximately

    9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN,

    BUT

    Almost everyone has at least one doctor.
    This means you are over 900 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as a gun owner!!!

    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk View Post
    For some reason our society, media, and government will dismiss the fact that many more people are killed by alcohol related crashes than are killed by guns. Personally, I know of several folks who would like to ban guns but those exact same people will readily admit they occasionally drink and drive. That is tragic. My guns have never threatened to kill anyone…can you say the same about your car?
    Yes I can.

    You are not going to be taken seriously by trying to compare apples and oranges to prove a point. You must have a bunch of free time on your hands and think your argument is rational, so have at it I guess. I would not attach my name to such a document. Good Luck!

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