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Thread: ban of Jacketed bullets?

  1. #1
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    ban of Jacketed bullets?

    is it just me or am I reading this wrong?

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/...ntroduced.html

    It appears as though bullets made with copper jackets are proposed to be illegal.?????

    a) Has projectile or projectile core constructed entirely,
    excluding the presence of traces of other substances, from one or a
    combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, beryllium copper,
    or depleted uranium, or any equivalent material of similar density
    or hardness.
    Same with tungsten bullets which as most of us know tungsten is commonly used in "lead free" bullets....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    is it just me or am I reading this wrong?

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/...ntroduced.html

    It appears as though bullets made with copper jackets are proposed to be illegal.?????



    Same with tungsten bullets which as most of us know tungsten is commonly used in "lead free" bullets....
    Beryllium copper isnt used for jacketing bullets. This is also one of those circumstances where the legislature in its desire to be so thorough included materials that while it has been used for armor piercing ammunition, is not in common use for that purpose.

    You're leaving out some important text as it concerns the the quote as well...

    16660. As used in this part, "handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor" means any ammunition, except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily designed for use in a rifle, that is designed primarily to penetrate capable of penetrating a body vest or body shield when discharged from a handgun, and has either of the following characteristics:
    Copper jacketed hollowpoints, for instance, wont penetrate most body armor.
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  3. #3
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    the proposed Bill, AB124 will remove the word "primarily" from this law.
    That will be a huge negative for all gun owners.

    As written, any bullet that can "penetrate metal or armor", will be banned.

    It does not say Body Armor, it says metal or armor.

    All current ammo would be banned

  4. #4
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    16660. As used in this part, "handgun ammunition designed
    to penetrate metal or armor" means any
    ammunition, except a shotgun shell, that is capable of penetrating a
    body vest or body shield when discharged from a handgun ,
    and has either of the following characteristics:
    (a) Has projectile or projectile core constructed entirely,
    excluding the presence of traces of other substances, from one or a
    combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, beryllium copper,
    or depleted uranium, or any equivalent material of similar density
    or hardness.
    (b) Is manufactured or designed, by
    virtue of its shape, cross-sectional density, or any coating applied
    thereto, including, but not limited to, ammunition commonly known as
    "KTW ammunition," to breach or penetrate a body vest or body shield
    when fired from a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
    concealed upon the person.
    ...
    (c) As used in this section, "body vest" means any
    bullet-resistant material intended to provide ballistic and trauma
    protection for the wearer.
    It appears shotgun shells are exempt. If you take the worst manufactured ballistic vests, that would mean that most ammunition would penetrate. (a) what does "similar density or hardness" mean? (b) how do you determine if it was manufactured or designed, even not primarily, to puncture a vest? Does the capability alone infer that?
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 02-13-2011 at 02:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    I would like my ammo to be able to penetrate a vest. Maybe every other round is AP. Let's not forget the great Hollywood shootout.

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    I was not aware what specific type of copper was used in making jackets (can someone cite please? Sounds like it would be informational to find out.) however I do know that tungsten is used extensively in the REQUIRED (in CA at least for hunting in most areas) "evironmentally friendly" bullet. So this law would also create a double standard.

    Whereby you have to have it to hunt, but you cant have it because it is illegal....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    I was not aware what specific type of copper was used in making jackets (can someone cite please? Sounds like it would be informational to find out.) however I do know that tungsten is used extensively in the REQUIRED (in CA at least for hunting in most areas) "evironmentally friendly" bullet. So this law would also create a double standard.

    Whereby you have to have it to hunt, but you cant have it because it is illegal....
    Looks like those poor endangered california condor are going to go extinct at lawmakers expense. That's the price of doing "gods work" and controling american citizens firepower. That was the main reason for those "enviromentally friendly" bullets.
    My Grandfather once said, "Don't don't start any fights but always get the first punch, don't take out your guns unless you plan on using them, and always be a hard working man." And I'll live those words till the day I die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by realityfatality View Post
    Looks like those poor endangered california condor are going to go extinct at lawmakers expense. That's the price of doing "gods work" and controling american citizens firepower. That was the main reason for those "enviromentally friendly" bullets.

    Or more likely here in the PRK is that hunting will go away. We wouldn't want to hurt some poor defenseless creature remember?

    Unfortunately that includes the predatory kind as well both the 4 legged kind like cougars and the 2 legged drug dealing pimp crack heads that try to rob you/rape your gf....
    Last edited by devildoc5; 02-14-2011 at 12:23 AM.
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  9. #9
    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    Or more likely here in the PRK is that hunting will go away. We wouldn't want to hurt some poor defenseless creature remember?

    Unfortunately that includes the predatory kind as well both the 4 legged kind like cougars and the 2 legged drug dealing pimp crack heads that try to rob you/rape your gf....
    Theese things only effect law abiding citizens, not criminals. Poachers don't care about defenseless creatures.
    My Grandfather once said, "Don't don't start any fights but always get the first punch, don't take out your guns unless you plan on using them, and always be a hard working man." And I'll live those words till the day I die.

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