Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Judge says driver with unloaded, encased gun under seat can't be charged...

  1. #1
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    316

    Judge says driver with unloaded, encased gun under seat can't be charged...

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116088824.html

    "In the ongoing evolution of Wisconsin gun law, a Milwaukee County judge has ruled the state’s concealed carry statute unconstitutional as applied to a man who had an unloaded, encased gun under his car seat three days after he had been robbed at gunpoint in the same area of the city."

    some news for the open carriers too.......

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    93

    I hate to say it

    While I do feel vindicated that my long standing position that encased and unloaded must still be "out of reach" seems to be correct in Milwaukee, the facts of this case are rather depressing. Thankfully this individual is not being convicted but just being charged is enough to make my blood boil. Where is the bill to prevent this constitutional infringement? When will they act? Everyday that passes without the legal right is a travesty.

  3. #3
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    I sent this to Representative Nass and Senator Kedzie. I suggest you do as well:

    941.23 ruled unconstitutional again, this time in Milwaukee County.

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116088824.html

    Let's repeal this puppy now.

    Please introduce the legislation I dropped off by your office.

    --
    Paul L Fisher

  4. #4
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Arbor Vitae
    Posts
    559
    I have been in, or lived in most of these neighborhoods. I think the guy would have been perfectly justified to carry the gun on his hip, fully loaded and called it a need for self defense.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
    (Paid for by the blood of patriots, and Calico Jack Defense)
    Calico Jack Defense

  5. #5
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497
    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    I have been in, or lived in most of these neighborhoods. I think the guy would have been perfectly justified to carry the gun on his hip, fully loaded and called it a need for self defense.
    I would agree, but remember them school zones. On that side of town, we have a school on every other block... I think...

    I have and still will keep mine (in a case/unloaded) right next to me in my truck.



    "“Requiring Pinnow to put the encased unloaded firearm out of reach would effectively deny him his right to bear arms guaranteed,” by Wisconsin’s Constitution, according to the decision.
    Pinnow’s attorney, Christopher R. Smith of Greenfield, said the concealed carry and transportation of firearms statutes, taken together are vague. Since the mid 1990s, Smith said, almost any transportation of a gun anywhere but in a trunk has been presumed treated as concealed carry when police want to bring that charge. But the law that requires guns be unloaded and in a case doesn’t specify that they must also be in trunk."
    Last edited by AaronS; 02-13-2011 at 12:11 PM. Reason: added the little clip.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,170
    There is nothing in WI law that states "Out of Reach" or that ammunition must be in separate cases or parts of the vehicle.
    The judge ruled correctly IMO, a properly cased and unloaded firearm is not a concealed weapon no matter where it is in ones vehicle, or on their person such as in a backpack or purse.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, ,
    Posts
    768
    Maybe this thread helped the judge make his decision.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...transportation



  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322
    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Maybe this thread helped the judge make his decision.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...transportation


    Bumped that thread.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    93

    I was right and you were wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    The judge ruled correctly IMO, a properly cased and unloaded firearm is not a concealed weapon no matter where it is in ones vehicle, or on their person such as in a backpack or purse.
    Judge Watts ruled that a properly cased and unloaded firearm on ones person or within ones reach is a concealed weapon that may result in a charge of carrying a concealed weapon and that it is unconstitutional "as applied" to this defendant in this case. The finding as reported, does not match up with your statement. Feel free to continue to spin it, you might win.

  10. #10
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    316
    Quote Originally Posted by Uziel Gal View Post
    Judge Watts ruled that a properly cased and unloaded firearm on ones person or within ones reach is a concealed weapon that may result in a charge of carrying a concealed weapon and that it is unconstitutional "as applied" to this defendant in this case. The finding as reported, does not match up with your statement. Feel free to continue to spin it, you might win.
    Right. Because the guy was robbed prior, that helped give an affirmative defense.

    If you are not a victim of anything in years past and get caught like he did, then it's a coin toss in court.

  11. #11
    Regular Member swfaninwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    26
    What happened in this case was police intimidation – arrest the guy and let him sweat until a judge throws the case out.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,170

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?84989-few-questions-about-transporta

    Quote Originally Posted by Uziel Gal View Post
    Judge Watts ruled that a properly cased and unloaded firearm on ones person or within ones reach is a concealed weapon that may result in a charge of carrying a concealed weapon and that it is unconstitutional "as applied" to this defendant in this case. The finding as reported, does not match up with your statement. Feel free to continue to spin it, you might win.
    Simply read #62 which I linked to, and gee golly, And to top it off, a liberal Milwaukee judge ruled exactly as I expected how any judge would be forced to rule if he was familiar with WI statutes. And we even have news of the 'Wiener-head Cop" wrongfully charging someone which I had also predicted.
    Where is that emoticon with a tongue sticking out, and maybe a middle finger standing vertically?

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1443619

  13. #13
    McX
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by swfaninwi View Post
    What happened in this case was police intimidation – arrest the guy and let him sweat until a judge throws the case out.
    deja'-vu-vu of Madison huh?

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322
    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    deja'-vu-vu of Madison huh?
    But you see, it was the totality of the circumstances...
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    I still don't understand why cops harass CIVILIANS who are carrying to protect themselves and their loved ones. Either cops are VERY INSECURE, are egomaniacs who want to be king and have the right to carry a fire arm, or they're afraid to go after real criminals.

    (in another infamous youtube vid To spend 20 minutes checking and harassing a guy walking his DOG while OC-ing is just ridiculous - in fact there was a robbery going on somewhere else in town that the cop should have been handling, given statistics.

    A guy with an unloaded gun under his seat is NOT going to commit a crime. Good grief.

  16. #16
    McX
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    But you see, it was the totality of the circumstances...
    Protias, you been hanging around chief knobby again?

    I still don't understand why cops harass CIVILIANS who are carrying to protect themselves and their loved ones. Either cops are VERY INSECURE, are egomaniacs who want to be king and have the right to carry a fire arm, or they're afraid to go after real criminals.


    that be the truth!

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    93

    Umm, this guy is no hero

    He has 2 pending felony narcotics charges in Washington County. Lets not make him a poster-boy.

  18. #18
    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Verona, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    481
    A police officer approached and asked if he had guns, drugs, knives or bombs. Pinnow said he had a gun. The police found his chrome Cobra .38, which he purchased legally at a Washington County gun show prior to being robbed, in a closed plastic case under the driver’s seat. A magazine with five rounds was in a center console. Pinnow was charged with carrying a concealed weapon, a misdemeanor.
    don't talk to the police.
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

    gunowners.org ~ lp.org ~ downsizedc.org ~ oathkeepers.org ~ campaignforliberty.com/usa/WI/ ~ goooh.com

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Vilas County, WI, ,
    Posts
    318
    I totally disagree with the concept of being a "prior victim" as having some sort of justification. If I'm a contractor who has work to do in a certain neighborhood (lets say for example I'm a plumber), and two weeks ago an electrician was robbed at gun point, or beaten and mugged, at the same work sight I'm now going to, does this count as justification for me too... or just the "prior victim"?

    My profession is as a locksmith. I know 3 other locksmiths who were the victims of armed robberies after responding to requests for service that were nothing but a ruse to facillitate an ambush. Does this justify me to carry every time I go on a service call? Not according to this judge's logic, until I too am mugged or robbed.

    In the Hamdan ruling, the Supreme Court said it was "OK" to CC in your business premises. For a contractor, like a locksmith as I am, or an electricion, plumber, carpenter, roofer, salesman, or any other business that requires traveling, your work sight IS your business premises.... but I doubt the Supreme Court would see it that way, which is why we need the current bullcrap laws changed to conform to the State's RKBA Amendment so no "interpretation" by a court of law is necessary to exercise your rights.

  20. #20
    Regular Member tomm1963's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    mke, ,
    Posts
    174

    Thats the ticket

    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60 View Post
    don't talk to the police.
    Shut your lips and don't give LEO any reason to dig around your personal stuff.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322
    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    I totally disagree with the concept of being a "prior victim" as having some sort of justification. If I'm a contractor who has work to do in a certain neighborhood (lets say for example I'm a plumber), and two weeks ago an electrician was robbed at gun point, or beaten and mugged, at the same work sight I'm now going to, does this count as justification for me too... or just the "prior victim"?

    My profession is as a locksmith. I know 3 other locksmiths who were the victims of armed robberies after responding to requests for service that were nothing but a ruse to facillitate an ambush. Does this justify me to carry every time I go on a service call? Not according to this judge's logic, until I too am mugged or robbed.

    In the Hamdan ruling, the Supreme Court said it was "OK" to CC in your business premises. For a contractor, like a locksmith as I am, or an electricion, plumber, carpenter, roofer, salesman, or any other business that requires traveling, your work sight IS your business premises.... but I doubt the Supreme Court would see it that way, which is why we need the current bullcrap laws changed to conform to the State's RKBA Amendment so no "interpretation" by a court of law is necessary to exercise your rights.
    Contact your reps to support Constitutional Carry.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •