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Thread: Help out a WI resident

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    Regular Member xd40arff's Avatar
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    Help out a WI resident

    Hello All,
    I have a couple questions for you fine Colorado folk. I am a resident of WI, we have not CCW permits here as of yet. I hold a valid FL permit. From what I can tell from reading here, in CO i can CC in my vehicle, but outside my vehicle I would have to OC? I won't be in Denver at all, I will be coming out for a 4wd event this summer. Did I read everything right? Just a little confused from the OC map and the handgunlaw.us pdf. Thanks.

    Nate

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    You are correct about OC outside of your vehicle because your permit won't be valid as you're not a resident of the issuing state. You seem to have all of your facts in order (Denver, no CC out of your vehicle, etc), but if you have any questions, feel free to ask I'm sure someone will know the answer.

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    Regular Member xd40arff's Avatar
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    Ok, it just is rather confusing. As long as I can CC in my vehicle that works for me. I will be deep in the mountains and would like to have a form of personal protection with me. This would be simpler if my state would get its head out of its you know what and come up with some sort of CC laws.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    In general:
    Your permit will not be honored here.
    You can Open Carry anywhere Excep City and County of Denver (and anywhere that posts No Carry)
    You can carry in your vehicle (open or concealed, loaded or unloaded.)

    further information can be found here:
    http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs

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    It's worth noting, be sure to not open carry in any of the Denver mountain parks as they are still owned by the county and the same laws apply as in the city.

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    Regular Member xd40arff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    In general:
    Your permit will not be honored here.
    You can Open Carry anywhere Excep City and County of Denver (and anywhere that posts No Carry)
    You can carry in your vehicle (open or concealed, loaded or unloaded.)

    further information can be found here:
    http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs
    Awesome. I did some research as its always annoying when someone doesn't bother to google stuff and just asks questions on forums. I just wanted to make sure I understood everything I read. Thanks for your help and link, I did not come across that one. Also Zach, I won't be anywhere near Denver so I should be good on that one, thank you for the heads up though.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd40arff View Post
    [snip]...I won't be anywhere near Denver so I should be good on that one, thank you for the heads up though.
    The major problem with Denver's Mountain Parks is that they are no where close to the city of Denver itself...here is the map that I could find http://www.denvergov.org/parks/Welco...7/Default.aspx...it doesn't show any actual boundaries, and it's not nearly as comprehensive as a map I remember seeing once before (on Denver's website, I believe they changed their site up a bit).

    If anyone has better information for you then I''m sure they will add it....

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    Angry Limits on enforcement/parks

    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    It's worth noting, be sure to not open carry in any of the Denver mountain parks as they are still owned by the county and the same laws apply as in the city.
    WTF?? Well, +1 for this post, I'd never even HEARD of this. So the city owns parks outside of it's own jurisdictional limits and the laws for that city/county apply within those parks? What kind of fascist crap is that?? Do Denver police patrol there? If not then how do federal or state park rangers justify enforcing Denver law?

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd40arff View Post
    Hello All,
    I have a couple questions for you fine Colorado folk. I am a resident of WI, we have not CCW permits here as of yet. I hold a valid FL permit. From what I can tell from reading here, in CO i can CC in my vehicle, but outside my vehicle I would have to OC? I won't be in Denver at all, I will be coming out for a 4wd event this summer. Did I read everything right? Just a little confused from the OC map and the handgunlaw.us pdf. Thanks.

    Nate
    Exactly correct.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogidu View Post
    WTF?? Well, +1 for this post, I'd never even HEARD of this. So the city owns parks outside of it's own jurisdictional limits and the laws for that city/county apply within those parks? What kind of fascist crap is that?? Do Denver police patrol there? If not then how do federal or state park rangers justify enforcing Denver law?
    If they are not within the meets and bounds of Denver County, OC is perfectly legal. Denver may own land in Outer Mongolia, too, but that is not Denver County.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    agreed.

    The vast majority of Colorado water features (lakes, reservoirs, etc.) are all controlled by Denver Water, but they do not fall within the confines of the City and County of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    If they are not within the meets and bounds of Denver County, OC is perfectly legal. Denver may own land in Outer Mongolia, too, but that is not Denver County.
    Not true, unfortunately.

    Here's a quote from the Meyer decision:

    "On this issue, the City's argument is supported by state law. C.R.S. §31-25-201 (2003) grants the City authority to establish, maintain and acquire lands for parkways, parks or recreational purposes. More specifically, in C.R.S. §31-25-216 (2003), a city and county is granted full police power and jurisdiction over extraterritorial parklands, of which Denver has a substantial collection. The State has not sought to regulate the City's policing of its own parks until the enactment of Senate Bill 25. Denver's park system is unique to it, especially with regard to its extensive system of mountain parks and parkways. Any need for uniformity is vastly outweighed by Denver's judgment that its citizens are safer without guns in the parks. There is no extraterritorial impact to this ordinance. Commuter routes typically do not traverse parklands, and it is riot an unreasonable burden for visitors to Denver to inform themselves as to restrictions on guns in parks. The State has not shown any substantial interest in requiring a municipality to open its parks to all guns, as described above, the bare interest in uniformity is unconvincing. Therefore, based on the totality of the circumstances, I conclude that the issue of open carry of firearms in parks is one of exclusive local concern. To the extent that]C.R.S. 529-11.7-103[size= purports to preempt the Denver ordinance as it prohibits open carry in parks, I find beyond a reasonable doubt that it is unconstitutional."

    This thread has a good discussion of this issue: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/ar...p/t-45919.html

    Here's subsection (1) of CRS 31-25-216:

    (1) In all cases where any city, or any city or city and county organized under a special charter or created under the state constitution, has acquired lands outside its municipal limits for parks, parkways, boulevards, or roads, said city or city and county has full police power and jurisdiction and full municipal control and full power and authority in the management, control, improvement, and maintenance of and over any such lands so acquired. It has power and authority to provide by ordinance for the regulation and control of its lands so acquired, to prevent the commission of any acts which are or may be declared unlawful pursuant to the provisions of this part 2, and to prosecute and punish the violation of any ordinances in its municipal courts. Such city or city and county also has like power and jurisdiction to prevent pollution of the water in all reservoirs, streams, and pipes which may be included within any such parks, parkways, boulevards, or roads and over the stream or source from which such water is taken as far as ten miles above the point from which it is diverted. Such city or city and county has like power and jurisdiction to regulate and prevent the erection, construction, and maintenance, within three hundred feet of any such park, parkway, boulevard, or road outside its municipal limits, of any advertisement or of any billboard or other structure for advertisements. Such city or city and county also has like power and jurisdiction over the use of any public roads, boulevards, or parkways within such parks and running over or through or between such lands and any public roads, boulevards, or parkways between any such park or pleasure ground and its municipal boundaries and not included within the municipal limits of any incorporated city or town.
    Last edited by Dynamite Rabbit; 02-24-2011 at 08:04 AM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    It was my assumption that these parks were still within Denver County and therefore covered under the ordinance. If they are not Denver County where are they? The municipality referenced is Denver city proper. Are any out of the county? If so, I can't see how Denver could enforce it's County regulations for land in another county. Any maps?
    Thnx, for the post.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    "Scattered in four counties." I'd have to see a statute that gives one county legal control of land in another. Those which are in Denver County, ok. But other counties? I 'd have to be convinced. And the opinion doesn't hold water in that respect. Maybe I'm missing something.

    CRS 31-25-201
    (1) Any city has authority, in the manner provided in this part 2, to establish, maintain, and acquire by gift, devise, purchase, or right of eminent domain such lands or interest in land, within or without the municipal limits of such city, as in the judgment of the governing body of such city may be necessary, suitable, or proper for boulevards, parkways, avenues, driveways, and roadways or for park or recreational purposes for the preservation or conservation of sites, scenes, open space, and vistas of scientific, historic, aesthetic, or other public interest. The power of eminent domain granted by this section, with respect to the acquisition of lands for parks or recreational purposes for the preservation or conservation of sites, scenes, open space, and vistas of scientific, historic, aesthetic, or other public interest may not be used by any city or city and county to condemn property lying five miles or further from its corporate limits, unless:





    (a) The exercise of its power of eminent domain to condemn property outside its corporate limits is required as a condition of a state or federal permit for construction of a new public facility; or





    (b) The use of the power of eminent domain to condemn property is necessary for the acquisition of conservation sites on or contiguous to reservoir sites owned by any city or city and county; or





    (c) The use of the power of eminent domain to condemn property is predicated on the prior written approval of the board of county commissioners of the county or counties in which such property is located, in instances not covered by paragraph (a) or (b) of this subsection (1) when the city or city and county has notified such board or boards. The board has sixty days from such notification to deliver its approval or disapproval. If the board fails to take any action or fails to so notify the city or city and county, the city or city and county may proceed with the exercise of its power; or





    (d) The land to be condemned is subject to a single comprehensive plan which includes provision of recreational facilities within the county and which has been adopted by both the county and the city seeking to condemn.





    (2) "Interests in land", as used in this part 2, means all rights and interests in land less than the full fee interest, including but not limited to future interests, easements, covenants, and contractual rights. Every such interest in land held pursuant to subsection (1) of this section, when recorded, shall run with the land to which it pertains for the benefit of the city holding such interest and may be protected and enforced by such city in any court of general jurisdiction by any proceeding at law or in equity.





    (3) Any city may unite with any other similarly authorized political subdivision of this state in acquiring, establishing, and maintaining any property which a city is authorized to acquire, establish, or maintain pursuant to subsection (1) of this section.

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    A side note: Denver City and Denver County are the same thing. There is no county land outside the city. There's only one government.

    It seems to me the statute I quoted above is clear -- cities have complete control over all aspects of land they own outside their border. No? Eminent domain is a whole different subject, I think.
    Last edited by Dynamite Rabbit; 02-24-2011 at 09:48 PM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    To acquire extra-territorial property they would have to use eminent domaine or pay the owner. Have to look into this subject more. Legacy research on what and when Denver acquired. And why the county which had the property would cede it. Now a gift from a private individual is another story. They can give it to me, you or Idaho.

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