Tawnos
Regular Member
Know how I know neither of you have read anything about the case?
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Home defense ammo
- Thread starter DevinWKuska
- Start date
Know how I know neither of you have read anything about the case?
swinokur
Activist Member
HST is available at several places. Ammunition to Go had 40 S&W yesterday. Striechers has it back ordered.
My gun shop even had some but it's been awhile since I've seen it there.
My gun shop even had some but it's been awhile since I've seen it there.
Right, but what I meant was-it's listed by Federal Law Enforcement ammo- is that just marketing, or purchasing of it limited to LEOs?
Dont recall which brand/type but I recall seeing some ammo in various gun shops around me that will sell that ammo only to Law Enforcement.
Dont recall which brand/type but I recall seeing some ammo in various gun shops around me that will sell that ammo only to Law Enforcement.
swinokur
Activist Member
There is not a law preventing it's sale. Someone said Federal had a policy against sale to civilians but it's sold everywhere and it says LE so I don't know if that's true. I have also bought Federal Tactical LE 00 buck in both 8 and 9 shot versions and they say tactical LE on them as well.
I have been told this stuff sometimes becomes available when LE agencies order too much and send it back and it's made available to other suppliers.
Besides anything that says Tactical or LE commands a higher price. But HST is a damn fine round. I use it in my G30 and my 1911. I use the 230g +p. Good stuff
Streichers, Ammotogo and other legitimate vendors sell it and they would not chance getting in trouble with anyone.
I have been told this stuff sometimes becomes available when LE agencies order too much and send it back and it's made available to other suppliers.
Besides anything that says Tactical or LE commands a higher price. But HST is a damn fine round. I use it in my G30 and my 1911. I use the 230g +p. Good stuff
Streichers, Ammotogo and other legitimate vendors sell it and they would not chance getting in trouble with anyone.
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DevinWKuska
Regular Member
DevinWKuska
Regular Member
Only ramifications I have heard of per se is people guns blowing up cuz they miscounted my 8-9 grains:uhoh: I like factory loads I suppose. in fact just bought a hornady kit+ extra so I can start reloading my own rounds mostly rifle though. Handguns rounds are just too cheap(for the price of 50 .45 acp rounds I get around 25 good quality rounds for my AR)
Ah, good point. Now that you mention it, I have some Tactical LE for the shotgun,didnt have any issue purchasing it, soo...duh. my bad.
swinokur
Activist Member
no worries
:lol:
:lol:
since9
Campaign Veteran
One of my previous incarnations was as a manufacturing engineer. I worked in electronics assembly, but my cohorts in the main plant worked chemical mixing. I've also reloaded a few thousand rounds with my dad and friends, so I'm familiar with both the accuracy which can be achieved at a factory and the accuracy which can be achieved via handloading.
My preference? Factory, hands down.
My preference? Factory, hands down.
Aknazer
Regular Member
I would like to point out that the military went to the FMJ because of the Geneva Conventions and the fact that it does a better job at wounding than killing (though it obviously can be fatal). The reasoon is that the jacket helps protect the bullet from expanding or fragmenting. This means that the bullet is more likely to travel through someone and not cause as much damage as there's less of an energy transfer (among other things). This can be prefered on the battle as a wounded soldier means that you potentially remove 2-3 soldiers from the fight (the wounded one and 1-2 to help remove that one from the battlefield) and is viewed as more "humane."
Not that FMJ rounds are a bad choice, but that if you are out to stop/kill your target then a round that is designed to mushroom/fragment is a much better option even if it doesn't mushroom/fragment 100% of the time. Now if you're worried about armor (outside of things like a car door/window) that's a different thing all together and often AP rounds function differently than FMJ. They generally have a stronger core like a tungsten core to help punch through the armor even if the whole bullet can't punch through. Or in the case of higher powered weapons it's simply the density of the ammo or the speed that it moves at; but that's well out of handgun talk.
Not that FMJ rounds are a bad choice, but that if you are out to stop/kill your target then a round that is designed to mushroom/fragment is a much better option even if it doesn't mushroom/fragment 100% of the time. Now if you're worried about armor (outside of things like a car door/window) that's a different thing all together and often AP rounds function differently than FMJ. They generally have a stronger core like a tungsten core to help punch through the armor even if the whole bullet can't punch through. Or in the case of higher powered weapons it's simply the density of the ammo or the speed that it moves at; but that's well out of handgun talk.
Barnett3006
Regular Member
The Geneva Conventions deal primarily with chemical and biological weapons and little or nothing to do with small arms ammunition...the treaty you are looking for is the Hague Conventions of 1899. Military's went to FMJ bullets because the lead bullets they where using could not handle the pressures and velocities created with smokeless powders. After FMJ's where adopted the British army started playing with softpoint/hollow point bullets in an effort to increase the wounding potential of the .303, and supposedly soldiers would also cut some of the jacket off of their ammo. Germany didn't like their soldiers being shot with British expanding ammo and complained loud enough to get an FMJ only provision written into the Hague Treaty.
Great efforts have been made sense then to make military FMJ bullets more effective including designing them to turn sideways inside the human body and then fragment violently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_(1899_and_1907)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
Aknazer
Regular Member
Ahh thanks. I knew it was one of the treaties, guess I was just wrong on which one.
anti-socialist
Banned
depends on the prosecutor
Where I live counties vary, in NJ.
I use Hornady critical defense TSX ammo. The place I live in, a duplex, I don't want to bust through a wall and pop someone. The TSX isn't considered a HP, but behaves like one. :banana: HP bullets don't expand like the TSX when clogged up... hence will bust through a wall easily due to not loosing thier energy and velocity.
So, no worries at home, or at court....
Where I live counties vary, in NJ.
I use Hornady critical defense TSX ammo. The place I live in, a duplex, I don't want to bust through a wall and pop someone. The TSX isn't considered a HP, but behaves like one. :banana: HP bullets don't expand like the TSX when clogged up... hence will bust through a wall easily due to not loosing thier energy and velocity.
So, no worries at home, or at court....
Locklear
Regular Member
I am no ammo professional, and am somewhat new to guns so correct me if I'm wrong...
I'd rather use a hollow point that I know will expand and come to a stop INSIDE the targets body, rather than send a high velocity FMJ round THROUGH the target, through the wall of my apartment, and take out the neighbor while he's taking a late-night dump.
I'd rather use a hollow point that I know will expand and come to a stop INSIDE the targets body, rather than send a high velocity FMJ round THROUGH the target, through the wall of my apartment, and take out the neighbor while he's taking a late-night dump.
If hollow points are good enough for police, they are good enough for me.
anti-socialist
Banned
Dont assume that just because it's designed or intended to expand and stop, that it will do so. There are so many variables that keep that from happening with most makes and types of HP. IF/when it works as intended, great. If it doesnt-which is more often than not, then the round ends up acting just like an FMJ ball anyway.
When HP does work as intended, it often does so too well. Expands and loses its momentum too early, before it has penetrated deeply enough to reach anything vital.
It's also something of a myth with FMJ that it goes through-and-through all the time. Most center-mass/torso hits dont, actually. Some extremity hits sometimes do,though.
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