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Thread: Senario

  1. #1
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    Senario

    There is a guy who has been getting threaten by a member on an on line forum. There is a meet and greet this weekend and my buddy who is the one getting threatened is an organizer of this event. The member who has been threatened doesn't have a CPL and will be on Gull lake. Will not consume any intoxicants They are wanting to open carry because of said threats. 1 is this legal. And 2 if the police where called would he be given any grief over this? I can also shed light to any questions you may have.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    if it's public property or private property that hasn't asked you to leave yet, then yes, OC is legal in Michigan. i have no idea if the police will be called or not. all i can say is if no one breaks the law, no one will be arrested.
    read the Michigan state police updates (especially the fourth one) in this thread for a crash course in legal OC:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...en-Carry-in-MI

    ETA: i should have said if no one breaks the law no one SHOULD be arrested. there have been OCers on this forum arrested for doing nothing illegal...
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 02-14-2011 at 03:48 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Its a meet and greet on a public lake.
    Last edited by ice_man08; 02-14-2011 at 03:48 PM.

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    Now here is my 2ND questions involving nonlethal. If the other guy start pushing and my buddy pepper sprays him for pushing him to descalate the situation how would that work? My buddy doesnt want any drama, but if drama comes we want to know the law.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    then you are good to go, just brush up on your firearms laws. make sure you are transporting legally in the vehicle, make sure the firearm is not covered by a jacket AT ALL. maybe wear a drop leg if available.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    then you are good to go, just brush up on your firearms laws. make sure you are transporting legally in the vehicle, make sure the firearm is not covered by a jacket AT ALL. maybe wear a drop leg if available.
    Thank you very much for the info. Just called my local fire arm store and will be getting a drop holster for my buddy.
    Last edited by ice_man08; 02-14-2011 at 04:08 PM.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Will a boat be involved? If yes, my reading of the law is he needs a CPL.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Will a boat be involved? If yes, my reading of the law is he needs a CPL.
    lol no we will be on foot on the ice, No boat, no car/truck/ or snowsled

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice_man08 View Post
    lol no we will be on foot on the ice, No boat, no car/truck/ or snowsled
    Oh. Haha. Well met! I momentarily forgot it IS winter.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Oh. Haha. Well met! I momentarily forgot it IS winter.
    lol its all good!

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    now here is the 3rd part of my questions (2 part) ( this one is just for me) If you are open carrying and a scuffle breaks out
    1 if the weapon is not unholstered and discharged would just the scuffle be the issue?
    2 If the attacker goes for your weapon is this considered deadly intent like it is if a suspect goes for an officers weapon?

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice_man08 View Post
    now here is the 3rd part of my questions (2 part) ( this one is just for me) If you are open carrying and a scuffle breaks out
    1 if the weapon is not unholstered and discharged would just the scuffle be the issue?
    2 If the attacker goes for your weapon is this considered deadly intent like it is if a suspect goes for an officers weapon?
    #1 - did your guy initiate or immediately instigate the scuffle or was he fighting purely in self defense?
    #2 - If someone tries to grab my gun I'm going to reasonably assume they mean to use it on me. Deescalation should be attempted if possible. Remember, drawing a firearm should ALWAYS be your last resort.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    #1 - did your guy initiate or immediately instigate the scuffle or was he fighting purely in self defense?
    #2 - If someone tries to grab my gun I'm going to reasonably assume they mean to use it on me. Deescalation should be attempted if possible. Remember, drawing a firearm should ALWAYS be your last resort.
    Lets assume there was a mutual arguement and the other guy pushes first and that turns into the scuffle.

    Yes i agree but would drawling your weapon to deescalate the situation be over the top.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice_man08 View Post
    Lets assume there was a mutual arguement and the other guy pushes first and that turns into the scuffle.

    Yes i agree but would drawling your weapon to deescalate the situation be over the top.
    In order to stay in the legal clear, don't participate in the argument. This requires self control. If you don't have self-control, don't carry a gun.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Last edited by lapeer20m; 02-16-2011 at 08:53 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    I would think it unwise to go looking for a fight, especially while armed. Armed citizens should hold themselves to a higher standard when it comes to purposely choosing to not put themselves in a position where there is a good likelihood of violence.
    Not to mention that iceman has just posted this all in a public forum. The police and DA will have a field day with this thread if self defense is required.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Not to mention that iceman has just posted this all in a public forum. The police and DA will have a field day with this thread if self defense is required.
    Boy Howdy!.. +1
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice_man08 View Post
    There is a guy who has been getting threaten by a member on an on line forum. There is a meet and greet this weekend and my buddy who is the one getting threatened is an organizer of this event. The member who has been threatened doesn't have a CPL and will be on Gull lake. Will not consume any intoxicants They are wanting to open carry because of said threats. 1 is this legal. And 2 if the police where called would he be given any grief over this? I can also shed light to any questions you may have.
    The question I have is the guy that wants to open carry the gun "Does Not Have A CPL" so
    does he legally own the gun that he plans to open carry or do you plan to loan him the gun?

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    its not that he is looking for a fight, its that he wants to just be prepared. He has his own gun and has Oc'd a couple times with me. I am gonns try to tell him to bring some pepper spray and mace the dude, thats gonna be my suggestion. Its a pretty crappy deal the whole mess.
    Last edited by ice_man08; 02-14-2011 at 07:22 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    My troll sense is tingling.

  21. #21
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    Why are you asking for legal advice on an online forum? Sounds like you need to consult an attorney...because no matter what some guy on the internet says, you're the one on the hook. You can read the state law as well as the next guy....

  22. #22
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    Read the laws & reread them,
    make sure you 100percent in the right,
    & if you think there will be problems
    & you have to be at this event bring a video recorder
    may save the he said she said issue just my humble opinion...

    PS there may NOT be any ICE as the temps are going into the 50 + area
    Last edited by mastiff69; 02-14-2011 at 09:48 PM.

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    Not trolling just asking a questions.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice_man08 View Post
    Not trolling just asking a questions.
    Fine, so let me ask a few and let's stop playing games.

    On which forum did the OP reference problem occur? Provide a direct link.

    Where, date and time of the meet 'n' greet and what organization?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    If you or your friend feel threatened enough to feel deadly force may be necessary, you should probably have already informed the police. Let us pretend that the gentlemen does indeed show up at the event, does indeed incite an argument or physical confrontation, and someone is forced to draw and shoot. Your comments and questions here clearly suggest you or your friend are in fear of your life from another individual. Weather there has been a clear and direct threat, consulting a police officer will at least provide you with proof you attempted to have the police handle or deescalate the situation before it got out of hand, as you were clearly fearful for your life.

    In the cover your ass realm of the world, the above suggestion at least covers your ass and creates a paper trail if you are forced by the threatening individual to draw and possibly fire a weapon.

    My personal thoughts, anyone who clearly knows I am armed and prepared to defend myself with a firearm who attacks me physically is either crazy or wishes death by citizen.

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