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Thread: WI-Force speaks about Constitutional Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    WI-Force speaks about Constitutional Carry

    Received this this morning. Interesting read. They spelled Nik wrong, as usual.

    Political News by Jeff Nasss

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose."

    I am not sure what is so hard to understand in these two simple sentences. The first, as you know, is Federal; the second is the State of Wisconsin.

    Like many "gun" groups, both pro and anti, their opinions of what should be allowed has not changed. In our own membership there is a wide variety of opinions on what should be done. As stated many times, WI-FORCE's position is Permitless Carry (which some call "Constitutional Carry"). Again, the key word is what can be "passed." WI-FORCE is committed to getting the best bill possible that will allow the citizens of Wisconsin to exercise their constitutional rights. WI-FORCE has been meeting with the leaders from some of the other legitimate organizations on their concerns about a personal protection bill. How soon will this happen? As we have stated before, Madison has several issues on the agenda with jobs listed as number one. Passing a bill before summer is possible, but we may be looking at this fall as more feasible.

    If you investigate all the laws and restrictions that you must follow to carry openly, you will find that you almost need to be a lawyer to understand it all. Even our friends whose organizations' main focus has been open carry state that you are responsible to investigate and abide by all laws, not to rely on just what they have published. Those that just want to remove one, two or three statutes will not achieve our goal of returning our inalienable rights to defend ourselves. Self defense in all forms should be included in any bill or removal of statutes. This would include, but is not limited to, open and concealed carry of firearms, edged weapons, chemicals, and stun guns. Permits from all States should be recognized. A video approximately 4 hours in length produced by the State, including three hours on the legal responsibilities of using force in self defense by the Attorney General, and an hour of general firearms safety training should be available. This video would emphasize that it is the individual's responsibility to obtain the proper amount of training to match their needs. If some form of "Shall Issue" has to be passed, we are looking at the following: Be able to legally own a firearm, watch the 4 hour video, and complete an application with the same information currently used for background checks for handguns. This form would include acknowledgement of watching the 4 hour video and understanding your responsibilities, with the form signed and submitted by an approved instructor. To become a state approved instructor you will need to be a certified instructor by any nationally recognized certified instructor (NRA, DNR, LE, etc.). As a permit will need to be mailed, an express system would be allowed so local law enforcement could do a quick permit in emergency situations.
    Additional provisions: permit would be of paper issue, permit holder may purchase and immediately take possession of handguns during retail purchase, weapons may be carried openly or concealed, and recognition of the right to self-defense, of all state permits. As we would recognize all permits, non-residents can get a permit from their own state or one of the many other states that issue non-resident permits.

    Every citizen has the right to make choices on how to defend themselves based on their individual needs. A one-size-fits-all requirement mandated by the State cannot meet the requirements of all the residents of the State. WI-FORCE will protect not just the rights of the rich, the young or healthy citizen, but also (and maybe more importantly) the poor and the physically challenged.


    Please consider a donation to the WI-FORCE political fund and if your club makes political contributions, move that they contribute to WI-FORCE. Send donations to: WI-FORCE / Voice, W271 N7055 Hansen Dr., Sussex, WI 53089
    They don't have it online yet.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Need a lawyer to understand the current laws? The seem pretty straight forward to me.

    As for their "training," spending 7 hours of watching videos does not engage the brain. People would be far better off getting an hour of class training on how to use a firearm and then a couple of hours of range training to shoot properly. After that, then have time to discuss legal ramifications. But all this should be optional! Not only that, but how did people learn how to shoot 200 years ago? From families!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Much of this, up to the part where permits and video are described, was said by Jeff at the NRA State Convention/WI-Force Annual Meeting in Wausau last weekend.

    Of course, as soon as permitting and a mechanism for permitting are openly discussed, your hand is now shown. Yup, interesting.....

  4. #4
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman's Avatar
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    Interesting read.

    I communicate with Jeff a good amount, along with a few other heads of gun-rights organizations. We get along well and have an open line of communication but he does make me laugh sometimes.

    It is funny how Jeff cannot manage to issue a press release without knocking other groups. Oh well.

    He knows how big WCI has grown to and it appears he thinks he needs to defend WI-Force against our mission and our action plans instead of simply pursue theirs.

    Those that just want to remove one, two or three statutes will not achieve our goal of returning our inalienable rights to defend ourselves.
    WCI doesn't "just" want to remove one two or three statutes. BUT THAT IS A DAMN GOOD START that will give people a practical ability to exercise their inalienable rights.

    The other laws (restaurant carry, state park carry, etc) should be addressed as well, but as you can turn on the nightly news and see, people are being assaulted every day. Those people are not given the opportunity by the state to defend themselves. How many more people need to be assaulted before the state decides practical 'right to carry' legislative action needs to be made a priority.

    Jobs ARE important. But are they any more important than a life?

    Not all people who are killed or assaulted on the NIGHTLY news would have taken the opportunity to carry for self-defense. But SOME would have and its morally wrong for the state to not give people the opportunity should THEY choose to do so.

    Repealing 3 laws (941.23, 167.31 and the GFSZ) will not completely restore our unalienable right to self-defense... But I think its a better start than all this:

    A video approximately 4 hours in length produced by the State, including three hours on the legal responsibilities of using force in self defense by the Attorney General, and an hour of general firearms safety training should be available. This video would emphasize that it is the individual's responsibility to obtain the proper amount of training to match their needs. If some form of "Shall Issue" has to be passed, we are looking at the following: Be able to legally own a firearm, watch the 4 hour video, and complete an application with the same information currently used for background checks for handguns. This form would include acknowledgement of watching the 4 hour video and understanding your responsibilities, with the form signed and submitted by an approved instructor. To become a state approved instructor you will need to be a certified instructor by any nationally recognized certified instructor (NRA, DNR, LE, etc.). As a permit will need to be mailed, an express system would be allowed so local law enforcement could do a quick permit in emergency situations.
    Last time I checked, unalienable rights don't require watching a 4 hour video and registering with the state like some kind of criminal.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Thumbs up +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Interesting read.

    I communicate with Jeff a good amount, along with a few other heads of gun-rights organizations. We get along well and have an open line of communication but he does make me laugh sometimes.

    It is funny how Jeff cannot manage to issue a press release without knocking other groups. Oh well.

    He knows how big WCI has grown to and it appears he thinks he needs to defend WI-Force against our mission and our action plans instead of simply pursue theirs.

    WCI doesn't "just" want to remove one two or three statutes. BUT THAT IS A DAMN GOOD START that will give people a practical ability to exercise their inalienable rights.

    The other laws (restaurant carry, state park carry, etc) should be addressed as well, but as you can turn on the nightly news and see, people are being assaulted every day. Those people are not given the opportunity by the state to defend themselves. How many more people need to be assaulted before the state decides practical 'right to carry' legislative action needs to be made a priority.

    Jobs ARE important. But are they any more important than a life?

    Not all people who are killed or assaulted on the NIGHTLY news would have taken the opportunity to carry for self-defense. But SOME would have and its morally wrong for the state to not give people the opportunity should THEY choose to do so.

    Repealing 3 laws (941.23, 167.31 and the GFSZ) will not completely restore our unalienable right to self-defense... But I think its a better start than all this:



    Last time I checked, unalienable rights don't require watching a 4 hour video and registering with the state like some kind of criminal.

    Well said Nik. We have to start somewhere and those three are a great start. And why should I get training on how to exercise a right and "register" myself? Are they serious?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    Well said Nik. We have to start somewhere and those three are a great start. And why should I get training on how to exercise a right and "register" myself? Are they serious?!?
    Ditto. This permit stuff is to placate those that do not trust us with firearms and it's "giving in" before the "legislative discussion" has begun. As I've said before it's kind of like "I love you, but..."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Ditto. This permit stuff is to placate those that do not trust us with firearms and it's "giving in" before the "legislative discussion" has begun. As I've said before it's kind of like "I love you, but..."
    I don't agree with WI-Force publishing their "back-up" position either.

    Not everyone is a master-negotiator, but I have a feeling if I went in to my boat dealer this weekend and told him I want to pay 100,000 for my new boat, but if that doesn't fly, I'll pay 120,000... I have a feeling where my dealer is going to stick to.

    I do feel confident in saying that I know Jeff well and I KNOW he does support constitutional carry personally. That said I think Wi-Force spends too much time in Madison and not enough out with people.

    Partly, I blame Wi-Force and Jeff's LONGstanding 'madison insider' positioning. Wi-Force IS heavily entrenched with the old-boy Madison politicians. Wi-Force has been working VERY hard IN MADISON for years and years on only the legislative side. I sincerely appreciate the efforts WI-Force has put forth IN Madison on the legislative side.

    I think they fought so hard in Madison for PPA its hard for them to recognize the new blood in Madison and that given the smaller government lower taxes tidal wave that swept Wisconsin AND the country, it is NOT the same battlefield it was in 2003 and 2006.

    I submit that the constitutional carry battle will not be won in Madison ALONE, but rather by garnering the kind of grass roots support WCi has.

    WCI's fall-back position is that if we don't get constitutional carry NOW, we will target those who don't support it next election.

    We will not be happy with shall-issue. We will not settle for shall-issue.

    Statistically 1 or 2 percent of the population will jump through the hoops to get a government permission slip and register with the government. In a couple years when those guys have to PAY to renew their government permission slip and perhaps even pay to take another government mandated course EVEN THEY will want constitutional carry. In addition, knowing statistically 50+% of the state population own guns, I'm VERY confident a good 5 to 10% of the population or more WOULD like to conceal carry but just don't want to do it 'enough' to warrant registering with the government, paying a permit tax etc.

    The guy who lives in Eagle River, but goes to Milwaukee to a sporting event or something once a year and wants to carry when he does may not want to pay the $400 to take a class and pay a permit fee just to exercise his right once or twice a year.

    That leaves a MUCH larger percentage of the population seeking constitutional carry than those seeking shall-issue.

    WCi's fallback position is if we don't get constitutional carry this session, WE'LL GET IT NEXT SESSION and unless legislators want to be targets during their re-election, they should get on board now. WCI's fallback position is if you don't support constitutional carry, you are against us.

    If legislators don't pass constitutional carry they will face:

    -challenges from more freedom minded candidates
    -continued pressure from the majority of gun owners and even those who do get permits who don't want to pay renewals
    -continued pressure as DOZENS of other states pass constitutional carry
    -news media making an issue of constitutional carry the next time around

    Legislators should pass Constitutional Carry quickly. If legislators DO pass constitutional carry now, in 2 years when any of them are up for re-election we will have:

    -2 years with NO issues as a result of constitutional carry
    -DOZENS of other states that got constitutional carry along with us
    -a NON ISSUE of constitutional carry in the media because its old news

    PERHAPS the Journal Sentinel and the drive-by news media will make an issue THIS YEAR of constitutional carry if it is proposed instead of shall-issue. BUT NO ONE IS UP FOR ELECTION THIS YEAR. AND 3 states already have constitutional carry for concealed carry. 31 other states already have constitutional carry for open carry. IF I WERE A LEGISLATOR I'd want the news media to make their big stink (if they do make one) now when I'm NOT running for re-election rather than have constitutional carry be an issue IN THE NEWS when I AM running for re-election

    WCI's fallback position is that if legislators DON'T support concealed carry in the off-election year, they are going to HAVE to answer to their constituents DURING an election year.

    Pass it now. 2 weeks after passing it, it will be OFF the news. 2 years after passing it there will be a dozen other states that have the same thing and NO problems since it was passed.

    Pass shall-issue now and you've got a looming battle during the next campaign. Its an easy choice.
    Last edited by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman; 02-15-2011 at 12:20 PM.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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    +1000 Nik,

    The Tea Party is on the move here in Wisconsin and I suspect they will give us some good choices in GOP primaries should our GOP reps drop the conservative ball not just on gun rights but a host of other issues as well. Don't forget to vote for Justice Prosser today.

  9. #9
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    I don't agree with WI-Force publishing their "back-up" position either.

    Not everyone is a master-negotiator, but I have a feeling if I went in to my boat dealer this weekend and told him I want to pay 100,000 for my new boat, but if that doesn't fly, I'll pay 120,000... I have a feeling where my dealer is going to stick to.

    I do feel confident in saying that I know Jeff well and I KNOW he does support constitutional carry personally. That said I think Wi-Force spends too much time in Madison and not enough out with people.

    Partly, I blame Wi-Force and Jeff's LONGstanding 'madison insider' positioning. Wi-Force IS heavily entrenched with the old-boy Madison politicians. Wi-Force has been working VERY hard IN MADISON for years and years on only the legislative side. I sincerely appreciate the efforts WI-Force has put forth IN Madison on the legislative side.

    I think they fought so hard in Madison for PPA its hard for them to recognize the new blood in Madison and that given the smaller government lower taxes tidal wave that swept Wisconsin AND the country, it is NOT the same battlefield it was in 2003 and 2006.

    I submit that the constitutional carry battle will not be won in Madison ALONE, but rather by garnering the kind of grass roots support WCi has.

    WCI's fall-back position is that if we don't get constitutional carry NOW, we will target those who don't support it next election.

    We will not be happy with shall-issue. We will not settle for shall-issue.

    Statistically 1 or 2 percent of the population will jump through the hoops to get a government permission slip and register with the government. In a couple years when those guys have to PAY to renew their government permission slip and perhaps even pay to take another government mandated course EVEN THEY will want constitutional carry. In addition, knowing statistically 50+% of the state population own guns, I'm VERY confident a good 5 to 10% of the population or more WOULD like to conceal carry but just don't want to do it 'enough' to warrant registering with the government, paying a permit tax etc.

    The guy who lives in Eagle River, but goes to Milwaukee to a sporting event or something once a year and wants to carry when he does may not want to pay the $400 to take a class and pay a permit fee just to exercise his right once or twice a year.

    That leaves a MUCH larger percentage of the population seeking constitutional carry than those seeking shall-issue.

    WCi's fallback position is if we don't get constitutional carry this session, WE'LL GET IT NEXT SESSION and unless legislators want to be targets during their re-election, they should get on board now. WCI's fallback position is if you don't support constitutional carry, you are against us.

    If legislators don't pass constitutional carry they will face:

    -challenges from more freedom minded candidates
    -continued pressure from the majority of gun owners and even those who do get permits who don't want to pay renewals
    -continued pressure as DOZENS of other states pass constitutional carry
    -news media making an issue of constitutional carry the next time around

    Legislators should pass Constitutional Carry quickly. If legislators DO pass constitutional carry now, in 2 years when any of them are up for re-election we will have:

    -2 years with NO issues as a result of constitutional carry
    -DOZENS of other states that got constitutional carry along with us
    -a NON ISSUE of constitutional carry in the media because its old news

    PERHAPS the Journal Sentinel and the drive-by news media will make an issue THIS YEAR of constitutional carry if it is proposed instead of shall-issue. BUT NO ONE IS UP FOR ELECTION THIS YEAR. AND 3 states already have constitutional carry for concealed carry. 31 other states already have constitutional carry for open carry. IF I WERE A LEGISLATOR I'd want the news media to make their big stink (if they do make one) now when I'm NOT running for re-election rather than have constitutional carry be an issue IN THE NEWS when I AM running for re-election

    WCI's fallback position is that if legislators DON'T support concealed carry in the off-election year, they are going to HAVE to answer to their constituents DURING an election year.

    Pass it now. 2 weeks after passing it, it will be OFF the news. 2 years after passing it there will be a dozen other states that have the same thing and NO problems since it was passed.

    Pass shall-issue now and you've got a looming battle during the next campaign. Its an easy choice.
    Word
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    Don't wish ill upon your enemy......plan it.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    +1000 Nik,

    The Tea Party is on the move here in Wisconsin and I suspect they will give us some good choices in GOP primaries should our GOP reps drop the conservative ball not just on gun rights but a host of other issues as well. Don't forget to vote for Justice Prosser today.

    Exactly! Voted first thing this morning. I was number 18 to vote in Kenosha!

  11. #11
    Regular Member KansasKraut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post

    Don't forget to vote for Justice Prosser today.
    I sho 'nuff did already! Also, if you live in Dane County, vote for Eileen Bruskewitz as well. She's the only viable non-commie on the ballot!

  12. #12
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman;

    Last time I checked, unalienable rights don't require watching a 4 hour video and registering with the state like some kind of criminal.
    Sex offenders need to register with the state, law abiding citizens should not have to. I say to any lawmaker who wants permits........ how does that go.......hmmmm.......McX can you help?
    Last edited by johnny amish; 02-15-2011 at 06:51 PM.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
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    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

  13. #13
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    Well said Nik. We have to start somewhere and those three are a great start. And why should I get training on how to exercise a right and "register" myself? Are they serious?!?
    Rak, your registered with me, you want me to send you your permit?

  14. #14
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    Sex offenders need to register with the state, law abiding citizens should not have to. I say to any lawmaker who wants permits........ how does that go.......hmmmm.......McX can you help?
    NO Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkiiiiiiiiiiiiii nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn permits. that is all, thank you for your attention.

  15. #15
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Some Advice (worth what you paid for it)

    There are forces in Wisconsin who revert back a decade to the rise of the "concealed firearm permit" complete with tax (application fee) and background check. These forces are not likely to be silenced because they are business owners who have a vested interest in charging fees of their own for State mandated training. They are not going to be silenced, so let us embrace the concept of a permit system, with taxes and training, as a viable OPTION for Wisconsin Citizens who want to travel to other States or bypass the Federal Brady Bill.

    Whatever the language of any Constitutional Carry Bill, whether following the Montana formula or the Vermont formula, my friends, do not deceive yourselves. These approaches have NOT been tested in the Federal Court System and they are a nightmare waiting to happen. Despite what I have read in other posts on other forums, wording a State Statute to over-ride Federal Law is a tough proposition. (Example: Montana law assumes that all persons who declare themselves eligible under federal law to own a firearm are assumed to have passed a background check. There have been no prosecutions in Montana in Federal Court to affirm or deny that position. Montana is a Western Gun Friendly State and carry outside towns is not governed at all, except for hunting on Federal Lands. Thus, no politician in such a gun-friendly (indeed, gun-dependent State) would ever use the Federal Statute, except as a punishment enhancer for a criminal who would not qualify under Federal Law to own a firearm in the first place.)

    Due to the wording of the Federal GFSZ Statute (you know, the part about a background check), there is sure to be some anti-gun prosecutor in Dane Country, Milwaukee County, or perhaps Rock County that will appeal to the Federal Prosecutor's office to prosecute an otherwise law abiding citizen on the Federal Gun Free School Zone statute, or try it on their own.

    Thus, the argument for an OPTIONAL permit system to be in place.

    Now, an argument for Constitutional Carry, with OPTIONAL Permit System - from the perspective of the Bad Guy. This argument assumes Milwaukee County at 21st Street and Capital Drive - or better yet, around St. Micheal's (Remember Fr. Groppi and the race riots of the 70s) just north of 26th and Vleit. To this day, no Milwaukee cop will go there alone.

    Permit System: Bad Guy thinks to himself as he spots an elderly person on Social Security just after cashing his Social Security Check at the Bank - This guy can't afford the $150 training fee and the $200 permit fee plus purchasing a quality handgun for $500 - $1000, he is the perfect person to rob.

    Constitutional Carry: Bad Guy thinks to himself - It is just too damned easy for that old fart to be carrying a handgun. I need to move to Illinois where my job (as a robber) is no longer life threatening.

    Permit fees discriminate against law abiding poor people, who, in some cases, need to have personal protection more then other Citizens who live in less crime prone areas. However, Constitutional Carry may be bad for jobs. It may be really bad for police jobs. When Wisconsin Citizens in Milwaukee County and other high-crime areas can carry a concealed weapon under Constitutional Carry, the crime rates may drop so much that many Police may need to be laid off. (No matter, they can get jobs in Illinois when the crime rates there go up because the Wisconsin Bad Guys move to Illinois where it is safe to rape, pillage, and plunder.)

    Just saying.....
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  16. #16
    McX
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    old fart?! we prefer to be called age challenged, old dudes..............or M'Lord is nice too!

  17. #17
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    All right M'Lord McX
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  18. #18
    McX
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    JPM, your my kind of guy.............er cat...............in a space suit....................with a gun.

  19. #19
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    JPM, your my kind of guy.............er cat...............in a space suit....................with a gun.
    My Cats Support The Second Amendment To The US Constitution.

    And, M'Lord McX, that is not a space suit. It is a back pack and the cat is carrying an M-4 (just like her owner except that I lost my M-4 in a snowmobile accident in Utah over a lake in the mountains and since then the ice has melted and the M-4 is now encrusted in coral)

    Carry on.............
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  20. #20
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    My Cats Support The Second Amendment To The US Constitution.

    And, M'Lord McX, that is not a space suit. It is a back pack and the cat is carrying an M-4 (just like her owner except that I lost my M-4 in a snowmobile accident in Utah over a lake in the mountains and since then the ice has melted and the M-4 is now encrusted in coral)

    Carry on.............
    JPM i could have sworn i saw that very avitar in a movie once. thanks for the kudos though, it's nice to see someone in this world loves me. sorry to hear about the loss of your guns, i lost all mine at Chernobyl. i hear they're still there, just glow in the dark a little.

  21. #21
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    JPM i could have sworn i saw that very avitar in a movie once. thanks for the kudos though, it's nice to see someone in this world loves me. sorry to hear about the loss of your guns, i lost all mine at Chernobyl. i hear they're still there, just glow in the dark a little.
    Das Vidonya Comrade McX & Cpebev3a
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  22. #22
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    WCI's fall-back position is that if we don't get constitutional carry NOW, we will target those who don't support it next election.

    Word x2!
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Word x2!
    The Republicans can put through anything they want to? The key people in the legislative process will be the Fitzgeralds, the chairs of the Senate and Assembly committees that the bill will be assigned to, and then the committee members. The key thing is to get a clean bill referred to committee.

    Let the restrictions come through the admendment process, that way those who wish restrict the constitution and are willing to go against the Republican platform will identify themselves.

    The help of the Tea Party is needed.
    Last edited by Flipper; 02-16-2011 at 10:57 AM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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