Should my partner OC?

sharkey said:

Oh, there were stipulations? Like citizen, here in the good ol' U.S., not during a crime, not in commission of a crime, not disarmed by L.E., not from a drunken passed out O.C.'er? Can you point me to the first thread with all these darn rules? Not encouraged by this here very contest on this forum?

Well those odds are pretty slim. And yes, I was being sarcastic too even in those links I posted. I knew that it has happened somewhere at sometime. At least according to Schrödinger.

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Not picking you - you could have searched for the challenge as it has been repeated ad naseum here on OCDO, instead of assuming that you could show that somewhere in the world something bad had happened. Or you could have (gasp) asked what the criteria was.

The old adage of "If it can happen, it will" still does apply though. Reread the .000001% conclusion above. The point behind this should be obvious.

BTW - the original thread/post goes back many years and would be buried in the archives somewhere. My guess is that it was first postulated in 2006 or 2007, but has been repeated by others as well as myself more times that I could speculate.

Badger Johnson said:

Wow you guys are good, heh. I really like the argument/comment that one poster made about whether she is faster on the draw CC than she would be OC with the gun on her right hip in a fast retention holster.

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My fastest CC rig was a belly bag. Even so, from start to bang took a full second. My fastest OC rig is a low-slung holster, and that's less than half a second. Will the half-second advantage make that much of a difference? Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends on the situation.

I prefer to OC in part because of that advantage, and in part because of it's deterrence. I really wish the FBI crime stats included OC vs CC differentiation info.

Um, no, she doesn't have a sister like her, and she is against having another threesome, unless, she said, it's Charlize Theron.

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"Another?" :lol:

The challenges are based on the two assertions put forth by those who oppose OC that, if you OC, (1) some BG is going to come into the room, notice that you have an OCed gun, and preemptively take you out, or (2) some BG will sneak up on you and snatch your OCed gun.

Both of those scenarios are talking about an OCer (not police, military, or security) going about his business and being targeted specifically for a snatch (not a robbery or an assault that results in the BG in possession of the gun) or for preemptive fire. I have no doubt that folks with guns are targeted all the time. It happens every day on the battlefield. However, we are talking ordinary citizens OCing as they go about their business here.

Based on your post count and the fact that you did not bother looking for these challenges before "answering" them, I would offer the friendly suggestion that you do a lot more reading here before playing gotcha with the folks here.

GS: I thought a prolific poster from WI, who no longer posts here, had indeed offered a reward--or, at least, had mentioned one offered by someone else.

eye95 said:

GS: I thought a prolific poster from WI, who no longer posts here, had indeed offered a reward--or, at least, had mentioned one offered by someone else.

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You may be right, but I do not recall seeing the posting.

Presume you are referring to Master DH - sure wish all of that knowledge and energy had been more consistently directed in a positive way.

eye95 said:

Based on your post count and the fact that you did not bother looking for these challenges before "answering" them, I would offer the friendly suggestion that you do a lot more reading here before playing gotcha with the folks here.

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First, thanks for replying. Second, I have no idea what you're talking about in "playing gotcha". Third that was HER comment not mine, related to herself being small and relatively weak and a possible target of a gun grab. Her emphasis was actually more on the element of surprise that CC affords over OC (again her thoughts), and that OC is just asking for comments from LEOs and civilians alike. I'll agree I share her thoughts on the 'telegraphing' and wanting to stay below the radar. I have only told two people I'm carrying (brother and father).

You might be surprised to know that I've read the majority of the substantive posts on here going back several years.

Badger Johnson said:

Her emphasis was actually more on the element of surprise that CC affords over OC (again her thoughts), and that OC is just asking for comments from LEOs and civilians alike. I'll agree I share her thoughts on the 'telegraphing' and wanting to stay below the radar. I have only told two people I'm carrying (brother and father).

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While this site is directed specifically at OC, the important thing to most of us here that that how one carries is very much a person choice. Whether they OC, CC or noC is not something that anyone else can decide for you.

One of the main disadvantages to CC that doesn't get mentioned very often, is that doing so makes you look like the standard, garden variety potential victim to the BG. Although there are no figures to support my contention, I suspect that a much larger percentage of CCers are victims of crime than are OCers.

OC does take more mental preparation to get passed the initial adjustment. You will think everybody is looking at you (they're not) - it is great for helping you develope better situational awareness.

The mere fact that she is so little, is the PERFECT reason she should carry. BG sees her with a gun. That will be the only diff between her and any other girl that he could attack. As long as she has SOME situational awareness (ie: empty parking lot at night guy walking up behind her) she should be fine. Now on terms of CC, say the BG grabs her and forces her to ground while holding her arms, (she is little remember) that gun never got a chance to be a deterant and worse now he can use it against her. It is really what she feels most comfortable with just my $0.02

Open Carry

Grapeshot said:

OC does take more mental preparation to get passed the initial adjustment. You will think everybody is looking at you (they're not) - it is great for helping you develope better situational awareness.

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Agreed. I have a for instance. I was walking down hannah st in DT Fort Wayne. (Bad Area) my buddy was moving out and i was helping. His work schedule made it so we were working late into the night. Well as i was walking along the road to where i had parked there was a black male that walked up behind me. I heard the movement as I stopped and turned I seen the man had a knife but right when i noticed his knife he seen my XDm in my holster he then preceded to turn and run down a conecting alley.... Now if i had been carrying concealed he might have gotten to me before i could pull on him. Nonetheless by the mere fact I was OCing I avoided a confrontation that most surely would have happened if I hadn't been.

protect our rights said:

Agreed. I have a for instance. I was walking down hannah st in DT Fort Wayne. (Bad Area) my buddy was moving out and i was helping. His work schedule made it so we were working late into the night. Well as i was walking along the road to where i had parked there was a black male that walked up behinde me. I heard the movement as I stopped and turned I seen the man had a knife but right when i noticed his knife he seen my XDm in my holster he then preceded to turn and run down a conecting alley.... Now if i had been carrying concealed he might have gotten to me before i could pull on him. Nonetheless by the mere fact I was OCing I avoided a confrontation that most surely would have happened if I hadn't been.

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And without a shot being fired, not even a gun drawn. Try that trick when CCing.

OC provides a passive defense option (visual deterrent), while CC requires an active one.

Badger Johnson said:

First, thanks for replying. Second, I have no idea what you're talking about in "playing gotcha". Third that was HER comment not mine, related to herself being small and relatively weak and a possible target of a gun grab. Her emphasis was actually more on the element of surprise that CC affords over OC (again her thoughts), and that OC is just asking for comments from LEOs and civilians alike. I'll agree I share her thoughts on the 'telegraphing' and wanting to stay below the radar. I have only told two people I'm carrying (brother and father).

You might be surprised to know that I've read the majority of the substantive posts on here going back several years.

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I probably should have made it clearer, however my post is in reply to the person who thinks he won the challenge.

Grapeshot said:

Show me one instance anywhere in these United States in modern times where a legal OCer has had his handgun snatched by a BG. Again with verifiable cites and LEO, security officers and military excluded. Note being relieved of a carry weapon (OC or CC) during the course of a robbery does Not qualify.

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Are you excluding LEO/security/military as the bad guys or as the victims? A gun grab is a robbery if force or the threat of force was involved.

I've got a quarter inch of paperwork ready to claim my prize.

Yard Sale said:

Are you excluding LEO/security/military as the bad guys or as the victims?

........ ready to claim my prize.

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LEO/security/military excluded - Yes

Claiming of prize - If determined to be a winner, claimant shall be responsible for providing their own food, transportation, accommodations and all other expenses incidental to or related to claiming of such prize at a place and time to be determined at the sole discretion of the judges. Sponsor reserves the right to substitute a prize which in their opinion is of equal or greater value. All entries become the sole property of the sponsor and receipt of entries shall not be acknowledged. Employees and family members of sponsor and judges are excluded from participating. Contest rules are subject to change and contest may be closed without notice.

We appreciate your business and hope you have a nice day. Thank you.

Yard Sale said:

Are you excluding LEO/security/military as the bad guys or as the victims? A gun grab is a robbery if force or the threat of force was involved.

I've got a quarter inch of paperwork ready to claim my prize.

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The challenge exists to refute the argument against OC that BGs will target the ordinary citizen OCing as the first to shoot or will simply snatch his firearm. Therefore the challenge is to produce a documented case where an ordinary OCer was subjected to one of the above.

The challenge does not exist to refute LEO/military/security being targeted or having their guns grabbed since that argument is not being put forth.