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Thread: Are you sick of the quote"its for the safety of the officer"

  1. #1
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    Are you sick of the quote"its for the safety of the officer"

    Enough of officer safety

    I have had enough hearing about disarming the citizen at a stop because it is a "law enforcement safety issue", especially if you carry in an automobile. Most of you guys (Cops) seemed to be good for the most part, but more and more are coming out of the wood work classified in my book as Gestapo. Why are you so upset at the armed citizen open carrying? We are good decent folks showing our right to self defense in a legal manner. I know you are not used to seeing people walk down to street with a gun on there hip, but we are not used to you acting in a manner that was fitting to Nazi Germany.

    Too many times police, police commissioners, prosecuting attornies, have used the phrase "its for the safety of the officer". In 2007 just before the CCW reform bill became law, political officals were cosulting with the FOP, Police Commissioners, and Police chiefs, State Police, on the stipulations for carry in an auto. In every case they wanted all licensed CCW folks to inform the officers. The excuse "its for the safety of the officer and the public" rang clear in the halls of the statehouse. I say tuff luck to the cops. I have heard the excuse too many times because it plays right into the Anti gun schemes. Cops have used the inform stipulation to arrest people who they dont like.

    I understand you guys have a job to do, but you cant interfer with our rights. A supreme court ruling on a Pensylvania case in 1947 said it best. You can not interfer in a persons right by raising the issue of public or police safety. This has codified my beliefs. We who open carry are trying to change the social norms. We walk proudly wearing our guns.

    Get use to us, we are use to you wearing yours. Here is a thought for you; Bad guys dont wear guns openly, they hide them. But you guys love harrassing us and while you are harrassing us , you ask us to disarm for your safety. In my world when an officer tells me to disarm, Im worried. Too many of you guys have draw weapons for no reason what so ever on the public. Remember gun safety. Everytimes you handle a gun, there is a chance it could acidentally discharge. So you want us to handle the gun for your safety. I think it would be better in a holster left alone, that would be safe. But again, you guys must be afraid of us.

    As a cop, you have it really good when it comes to the law. You can draw your weapon out at anyone anytime. If a citizen did that, they would be arrested for BRANDISHING. If you guys beat up your wife, and your charged with a DV, you still have you guns. Gee, we loose ours. If you shoot someone, its investigated and most of the time its a good shoot. especially when the person was unarmed. Whats that saying you guys use in court, Oh ya; "gee i thought he had something that appeared to be a gun". That works well for you all the time. Oh ya, another benefit I forgot, you can drink alcohol with your guns straped on your hips. That is actually in a law, its allowed at your lodge meetings, you know that union stuff is so brotherly. Can you sense there is a big trust factor here, I can just go on.

    I should be able to wear my side arm in the preesents of any police officer at any time. The situation is only safe when all weapons remain in there holsters. Its safe, logical, and helps with the trust factor. I TRUST YOU, WHY DONT YOU TRUST ME. By the way, Im retire from the military, you should trust me more than others. Ya Right! I love how you question us at your stops, you ask why are you wearing that gun? Do you have a permit for that? Come on guys, do you have a blog sight where you share all these qoutes. You need new material. Here is my answer to you.

    I wear a gun because it is a right granted to me by God for self protection. Its a right protected by this country I fought for. It is a right that shall not be infringed by any man, woman, or authorized element. I wear it because it like putting on my shoes in the morning. Its apart of me, it protects me, empowers me, it saves me. As a Police officer, you have no right to wear a gun. We (citizen), have allowed you the power to wear that weapon to enforce the law, not use it for invented law. You are not Matt Dillion, nor are you Miami Vise but you are a pillar of the community. A force to be recognized with, a defender of freedom, and justice. So please show it.

    The power you have acquired can be taken away. You can loose your job. You can abuse you authority while under colors...and we will charge you with that. After you loose your job, you can wear your gun by the right of the Second Amendment. Thats only if you pass the back ground check. It might be after then you may understand the harrassment we indure to include the embarrassment of the lights, the lecture, the detainment, the questions. We will continue to buck the system. We will change the social norms. We will be free. When we are no longer harrassed, then we are free.

    I'm pro gun, pro justice, pro truth. What about you?

    Thats my rant, how about yours.
    Last edited by Makarov; 02-18-2011 at 01:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    1. Paragraphs are your friends. It makes it easier to read what you write.
    2. To hear some LEOs talk, "officer safety" and "going home alive" trump the Ohio Revised Code, Federal law, the Ohio and U.S. Constitutions.

    If an LEO's safety and ability to do what he PERCEIVES his job to be cannot be maintained within the confines of the law as written, he needs to find alternate employment.

    Police who cannot or will not obey the law like any other citizen are merely criminals on public retainer. Police who observe other LEOs violating the law and do not act IN THEIR OFFICIAL CAPACITY are similarly criminals, accomplices after the fact.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Cops aren't perfect and do handle situations incorrectly. But if your goal is to improve OCers interactions with law enforcement, a Leo bashing thread isn't a solution. A polite, courteous, informed citizen will make a more positive change than the opposite demeanor. Just a thought.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Cops aren't perfect and do handle situations incorrectly. But if your goal is to improve OCers interactions with law enforcement, a Leo bashing thread isn't a solution. A polite, courteous, informed citizen will make a more positive change than the opposite demeanor. Just a thought.
    Do you hold the police to the same standard?

    Or are you like the people who tell the citizen "Ignorance of the law is no excuse!" while saying of the cops, "There are too many laws for the police to know!"

    Most defenses of police misconduct rest on a thick layer of hypocrisy.

  5. #5
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Do you hold the police to the same standard?

    Or are you like the people who tell the citizen "Ignorance of the law is no excuse!" while saying of the cops, "There are too many laws for the police to know!"

    Most defenses of police misconduct rest on a thick layer of hypocrisy.
    Yes I do hold police to the same standard. LEOs deal with criminal law, and should have a good grasp of criminal law as a OCer should have knowledge of gun laws. BUT, there is no citizen, cop, lawyer, judge, or lawmaker that knows every law. I'm not sure how one can turn my statement into a defense of police misconduct.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Yes I do hold police to the same standard. LEOs deal with criminal law, and should have a good grasp of criminal law as a OCer should have knowledge of gun laws. BUT, there is no citizen, cop, lawyer, judge, or lawmaker that knows every law. I'm not sure how one can turn my statement into a defense of police misconduct.
    I wanted to see if you were consistent.

    I FREQUENTLY come across people, especially LEOs and their supporters, who believe that any eighth grade dropout citizen has an ABSOLUTE duty to know the law, whatever it might be, but that a cop has NO duty to know whether what he's ARRESTING you for is even law AT ALL.

    If you hold EVERYBODY to the standard of knowing and obeying the law, that's a good thing. A lot of people DON'T, especially cops, many of whom want to be held to a LOWER standard.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    The problem with Police

    The real world.

    Police should be held to a high standard and they should be expecting to act that way. I was military for 23 years, I held a high standard. The high standard is...you mess up, you’re off the force. If you perform the following crimes, you should be kicked off the force; DUI, Domestic Violence, Violation of someone’s civil liberties, theft. Why do police commit these crimes stay in? One word...Union. Oh yes, I forgot…the good old boys network as well (Blue doesn’t hurt Blue).

    Many police, not all, fail the high standard test. Did you hear recently, the Obama administration wants Dayton police testing standards lowered so more minorities can be hired? So we are now hiring people that are below today’s standards because they are a minority. That is an insult to my intelligence! What ever happened when you fail a test, you study hard the next time to pass it, or you study in groups, or you get tutoring. You should never lower the standard, if any, the standard should be higher.

    You are suggesting that we should be polite to the officers, how can you do that when they are yelling at you with guns drawn. Obviously you haven't carried around Cleveland Heights. You should read the blogs. Most cops are intelligent conversers but they do what they want. That’s why we have to watch our backs and bring tape recorders.

    Dont let the cops BS you. They know open carry is lawful, its preached at the academy. They dont like it, they deter it, they make life miserable when you carry. They act dumb, they act smart, they're looking for you to slip up. Its called extortion, illegal dention, and its illegal prosecution. Your arrested, then defend yourself in court, your broke because it costs thousands, you win, they appeal, more thousands, you win. They say they are sorry. Gosh who really won! Then you sue, more money, more appeals, more money, more appeals, then judgement. 1 dollar in damages. Hey you won!



    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Yes I do hold police to the same standard. LEOs deal with criminal law, and should have a good grasp of criminal law as a OCer should have knowledge of gun laws. BUT, there is no citizen, cop, lawyer, judge, or lawmaker that knows every law. I'm not sure how one can turn my statement into a defense of police misconduct.
    Last edited by Makarov; 02-22-2011 at 01:09 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
    Enough of officer safety

    I have had enough hearing about disarming the citizen at a stop because it is a "law enforcement safety issue", especially if you carry in an automobile. Most of you guys (Cops) seemed to be good for the most part, but more and more are coming out of the wood work classified in my book as Gestapo. Why are you so upset at the armed citizen open carrying? We are good decent folks showing our right to self defense in a legal manner. I know you are not used to seeing people walk down to street with a gun on there hip, but we are not used to you acting in a manner that was fitting to Nazi Germany.

    Too many times police, police commissioners, prosecuting attornies, have used the phrase "its for the safety of the officer". In 2007 just before the CCW reform bill became law, political officals were cosulting with the FOP, Police Commissioners, and Police chiefs, State Police, on the stipulations for carry in an auto. In every case they wanted all licensed CCW folks to inform the officers. The excuse "its for the safety of the officer and the public" rang clear in the halls of the statehouse. I say tuff luck to the cops. I have heard the excuse too many times because it plays right into the Anti gun schemes. Cops have used the inform stipulation to arrest people who they dont like.

    I understand you guys have a job to do, but you cant interfer with our rights. A supreme court ruling on a Pensylvania case in 1947 said it best. You can not interfer in a persons right by raising the issue of public or police safety. This has codified my beliefs. We who open carry are trying to change the social norms. We walk proudly wearing our guns.

    Get use to us, we are use to you wearing yours. Here is a thought for you; Bad guys dont wear guns openly, they hide them. But you guys love harrassing us and while you are harrassing us , you ask us to disarm for your safety. In my world when an officer tells me to disarm, Im worried. Too many of you guys have draw weapons for no reason what so ever on the public. Remember gun safety. Everytimes you handle a gun, there is a chance it could acidentally discharge. So you want us to handle the gun for your safety. I think it would be better in a holster left alone, that would be safe. But again, you guys must be afraid of us.

    As a cop, you have it really good when it comes to the law. You can draw your weapon out at anyone anytime. If a citizen did that, they would be arrested for BRANDISHING. If you guys beat up your wife, and your charged with a DV, you still have you guns. Gee, we loose ours. If you shoot someone, its investigated and most of the time its a good shoot. especially when the person was unarmed. Whats that saying you guys use in court, Oh ya; "gee i thought he had something that appeared to be a gun". That works well for you all the time. Oh ya, another benefit I forgot, you can drink alcohol with your guns straped on your hips. That is actually in a law, its allowed at your lodge meetings, you know that union stuff is so brotherly. Can you sense there is a big trust factor here, I can just go on.

    I should be able to wear my side arm in the preesents of any police officer at any time. The situation is only safe when all weapons remain in there holsters. Its safe, logical, and helps with the trust factor. I TRUST YOU, WHY DONT YOU TRUST ME. By the way, Im retire from the military, you should trust me more than others. Ya Right! I love how you question us at your stops, you ask why are you wearing that gun? Do you have a permit for that? Come on guys, do you have a blog sight where you share all these qoutes. You need new material. Here is my answer to you.

    I wear a gun because it is a right granted to me by God for self protection. Its a right protected by this country I fought for. It is a right that shall not be infringed by any man, woman, or authorized element. I wear it because it like putting on my shoes in the morning. Its apart of me, it protects me, empowers me, it saves me. As a Police officer, you have no right to wear a gun. We (citizen), have allowed you the power to wear that weapon to enforce the law, not use it for invented law. You are not Matt Dillion, nor are you Miami Vise but you are a pillar of the community. A force to be recognized with, a defender of freedom, and justice. So please show it.

    The power you have acquired can be taken away. You can loose your job. You can abuse you authority while under colors...and we will charge you with that. After you loose your job, you can wear your gun by the right of the Second Amendment. Thats only if you pass the back ground check. It might be after then you may understand the harrassment we indure to include the embarrassment of the lights, the lecture, the detainment, the questions. We will continue to buck the system. We will change the social norms. We will be free. When we are no longer harrassed, then we are free.

    I'm pro gun, pro justice, pro truth. What about you?

    Thats my rant, how about yours.
    To answer the question: yes. If they want to be "safe," work at Walgreens.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Cops aren't perfect and do handle situations incorrectly. But if your goal is to improve OCers interactions with law enforcement, a Leo bashing thread isn't a solution. A polite, courteous, informed citizen will make a more positive change than the opposite demeanor. Just a thought.
    I must have missed the "Leo bashing" part. Could you point it out?

  10. #10
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    It's not wise to hate on such a large scale. A bad apple doesn't mean that you should take a chainsaw to the whole tree. If we constantly look for the negatives, that's all we'll see. An "us versus them" mentality solves nothing. Leos are citizens, it just so happens their job is to uphold the Constitution and our laws. When rights are disregarded, there are consequences. Leos are like the government and fire, its a vital, useful and essential tool when its under control; but out of control it's very dangerous.
    Last edited by dng; 02-24-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    It's not wise to hate on such a large scale. A bad apple doesn't mean that you should take a chainsaw to the whole tree. If we constantly look for the negatives, that's all we'll see. An "us versus them" mentality solves nothing. Leos are citizens, it just so happens their job is to uphold the Constitution and our laws. When rights are disregarded, there are consequences. Leos are like the government and fire, its a vital, useful and essential tool when its under control; but it of control its very dangerous.
    While that may be true, with some reservations, I don't recall seeing anything that is "bashing" in the post you referenced. There are those who will come down on the cops' side in any gray area. There are those who won't. Simply by virtue of that predilection, I don't consider it 'bashing.' If the issue is black and white, res ipsa loquitur.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 02-23-2011 at 02:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    Bad Apples

    Although it seems like I'm bashing, the intent is to inform, think, raise issues of thought. I remembered when I was a child and pick apples for my mom so she could make pie. Now and then we would run across a bad apple. It was bruised slightly; it could be savable for a pie. When that apple is thrown into the basket with all the other apples it just blended in. If that basket of apples sat for a while, eventually the bad apple would start to stand out leading to the infestation of the entire basket. That’s what I believe we are pointing out here. The bad apples, at ounce were a few, but they were never corrected into good apples. Now the bad apples have infected the basket to an epidemic level. How do we tell the difference between the bad and good apples?

    Once, I talked to a retired police officer who worked sales in a gun store north of Dayton. We discussed many topics that day eventually ending up on the subject of open carry. As soon as that subject was raised, alarm bells went off in that guy’s head. His behavior and attitude turned hostile to the point of pure tunnel vision. Here was his ending quote of the subject. "If I was still working for the sheriff‘s dept and saw you or anyone open carrying, something would happen to you real quick, like an accidental shooting". Was this a bad apple? I interviewed other uniformed in that same district. They agreed that is the general attitude. Now who is the bad guy? The bad apple changed the basket of good apples!

    Let’s face it; the tasking of a COP should surely be respected. Many have great intentions, but because of the nature of the job, ego, of just being around messed up people, somehow turns them into a something they should not be. That’s why consistent ancillary training is important. It reminds them of their purpose, actions, and what happens when negative action occurs. Training officers are the sobering reminders to keep cops clean. They are definitely the link between civilians and the force.

    COP: Civilian Ordinance Patrol


    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    It's not wise to hate on such a large scale. A bad apple doesn't mean that you should take a chainsaw to the whole tree. If we constantly look for the negatives, that's all we'll see. An "us versus them" mentality solves nothing. Leos are citizens, it just so happens their job is to uphold the Constitution and our laws. When rights are disregarded, there are consequences. Leos are like the government and fire, its a vital, useful and essential tool when its under control; but it of control its very dangerous.
    Last edited by Makarov; 02-24-2011 at 10:51 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    It's not wise to hate on such a large scale. A bad apple doesn't mean that you should take a chainsaw to the whole tree. If we constantly look for the negatives, that's all we'll see. An "us versus them" mentality solves nothing. Leos are citizens, it just so happens their job is to uphold the Constitution and our laws. When rights are disregarded, there are consequences. Leos are like the government and fire, its a vital, useful and essential tool when its under control; but it of control its very dangerous.
    In law enforcement in the United States, there are bad trees and forests. You may have heard of the Chicago, Philadelphia and New Orleans Police Departments.

    Any time there's a home invasion, robbery or torture ring operating INSIDE of a police department for YEARS, that department CANNOT be trusted. Those things can't go on without a LOT of other cops knowing. A cop who knows and does nothing is a BAD cop.

    It's definitely NOT in my interest to trust the police. There's FAR too much evidence to the contrary.

    It's my duty to obey the law. I DEMAND the same from LEOs. Evidence says it's a crapshoot as to whether I'll get it. In places like Chicago and Atlanta, the odds are against me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    It's definitely NOT in my interest to trust the police. There's FAR too much evidence to the contrary.

    It's my duty to obey the law. I DEMAND the same from LEOs. Evidence says it's a crapshoot as to whether I'll get it. In places like Chicago and Atlanta, the odds are against me.

    +1 And how about the fiasko in BeaverCreek, Ohio?

    http://greeneherald.com/article/loca...n-good-manners

    Just what did the good researcher have to say about this? Ignorant Sargent, dispatcher, road cops asking for ID against Terry vs. Ohio.

    Is OC.ORG planning anything as a result of this article?

    I don't trust LEO, I carry a voice recorder. To lie to them is a crime, they lie all the time trying to get you to give up your rights. No trust here, and it isn't just a few bad apples, its more like half the barrel.
    Last edited by JSlack7851; 02-24-2011 at 05:34 PM. Reason: grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Leos are citizens, it just so happens their job is to uphold the Constitution and our laws. When rights are disregarded, there are consequences.
    You don't get out and OC much do you?

    The first thing LEO do is ask you for ID. Whether the guidelines of Terry vs. Ohio have been met or not. I believe, LEO find little things like the Constitution a inconvenience.

    And just what consequences are you talking about, I've been following OC activities around this State for a while now and only know of 1 lawsuit charged and won by a OC'er being harassed.

    LEO are trained to "BARK" orders and expect LAC to jump, regardless of what ever civil rights they might be giving up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I must have missed the "Leo bashing" part. Could you point it out?
    I agree 100%, there was NO cop bashing at all in the opening post.

    There is someone who has commented on this thread that lives in la-la land, because if they actually believe what they wrote, they have no clue about reality.........
    Last edited by axeanda45; 02-26-2011 at 09:52 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    You don't get out and OC much do you?

    The first thing LEO do is ask you for ID.
    Make sure you don't HAVE any. In Ohio, if you're oc'ing on foot, you not only don't need to show ID, you don't even need to HAVE any.

  18. #18
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Yes, I do open carry; and do so on a regular basis. Sorry, I don't reside in "lala land", I just happen to have an opinion, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Leos should be judged on an individual basis, just as we should evaluate all "groups" of people as individuals, not by lumping people into one category.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Yes, I do open carry; and do so on a regular basis. Sorry, I don't reside in "lala land", I just happen to have an opinion, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Leos should be judged on an individual basis, just as we should evaluate all "groups" of people as individuals, not by lumping people into one category.
    Assuming that all cops are honest or that they respect the U.S. Constitution and the law is as unwarranted as assuming that they're all crooked.

    Of course the difference is that if you act on the assumption that any LEO COULD be a criminal, you lose NOTHING, whereas if you act on the assumption that NO LEO could be a criminal, you stand to lose EVERYTHING.

    Experience and observation show me that there's NO benefit to trusting a strange cop and an INFINITY of risks. If LEOs and their supporters don't like that, then they need to clean up their own house. Any LEO who disputes that is invited to leave his gun, vest and radio in the car during a 3:00am traffic stop on a deserted stretch of road. If you WON'T leave your gun, vest and radio in the car, doesn't that mean you're treating all citizens as cop killers?
    Last edited by Deanimator; 02-26-2011 at 05:23 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    I measure before trust

    Measuring up the person before trusting is an instinct many people don't have. Some folks just trust or distrust people automatically by their nature. Others, measure the person visually, and through verbal conversing. However, most Cops I seen measure but never trust; it’s a behavior of the street, how they were raised, military training or all combined. These are personalities of control. Try to cross them, it turns. I'm not say all Cops have this issue, but sure seems the majority from the apple dumpling gang do. So my fellow carriers, keep correcting, keep educating, keep exploring and be safe. Consistency on any subject of good will win hearts and minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Assuming that all cops are honest or that they respect the U.S. Constitution and the law is as unwarranted as assuming that they're all crooked.

    Of course the difference is that if you act on the assumption that any LEO COULD be a criminal, you lose NOTHING, whereas if you act on the assumption that NO LEO could be a criminal, you stand to lose EVERYTHING.

    Experience and observation show me that there's NO benefit to trusting a strange cop and an INFINITY of risks. If LEOs and their supporters don't like that, then they need to clean up their own house. Any LEO who disputes that is invited to leave his gun, vest and radio in the car during a 3:00am traffic stop on a deserted stretch of road. If you WON'T leave your gun, vest and radio in the car, doesn't that mean you're treating all citizens as cop killers?
    Last edited by Makarov; 03-01-2011 at 08:11 AM.

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    In my opinion......

    To "Agree to disagree" is a cowards way of bowing out and admitting that they will lose if they try to argue their false viewpoint any further.......
    Last edited by axeanda45; 03-05-2011 at 11:13 PM.

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    Last March whn I held my first OC meet, we where in a small street front church building.

    When my son and his girlfriend left the building to walk to their car parked about 30 ft away the Newark police dept swarmed in, put him against his vehicle, handcuffed him, disarmed him and ran his ID. They lied about it later. The cheif sent out an e-mail saying we went looking for a reaction & got it.

    When I walked out there and was disarmed, I admit I got loud so all camera's brought by those who was taping out event could hear.

    You can hear the cop tell me I was going to jail if I didnt show ID but wouldn't tell me what I done wrong.

    I have tried to change the way I feel about police, but I no longer want to.

    My son is the one cuffed by the ford

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uq5mMRG6A

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    Lets see, most of us don't trust those sworn to uphold the constitution. Why? Experience.

    There was Northwood, LEO harassed a man getting ice cream with his daughter.....
    Lima, A man and his daughter enjoying a festival.....
    Cleveland Heights, man exercising his 2A rights on 4th of July..... at gunpoint on the ground.....won lawsuit....
    Norwood, 60 year old man walking in the park...... lawsuit pending....
    Most recently, BeaverCreek, 2 guys enjoying a meal...... County Prosecutor sent out memo to all PD's in county, OC is LEGAL, and are not subject to Terry stop, in and on itself.
    I had a Park Ranger show me a little note pad that said OC in HIS Park is Illegal, you should of seen the look in his eyes when I told him "his rules weren't worth the paper it was written on."

    These are just off of the top of my head, I could look up more, not to mention Rottman's encounter. UNCALLED FOR...

    I don't know about taking a chainsaw to the orchard, but just how many bad TREES are there? When you give them a gun and a badge they get a "superiority" complex. Its normal, I guess, human nature. The will LIE, Bully, threaten, bark orders, and do everything in their TRAINING, to get you to forfit your rights.

    If you support this kind of action, I just guess you just hope somebody will support your bad actions some day. Any trust here? NO! Trust is EARNED, not owed b/c you strap on a badge and gun.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by axeanda45 View Post
    In my opinion......

    To "Agree to disagree" is a cowards way of bowing out and admitting that they will lose if they try to argue their false viewpoint any further.......
    Sometimes. And sometimes, it's just a way of acknowledging that neither party is going to budge, and continuing to debate it just results in needless animosity.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
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    39
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Sometimes. And sometimes, it's just a way of acknowledging that neither party is going to budge, and continuing to debate it just results in needless animosity.
    True, but not nearly as common.

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