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School bus stop

RenkaiWulf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Burton, MI
i cant find anything about this so i figure i would ask here, is a school bus stop a gun free zone for non-CPL holders
eg. i go out to the bus stop to get my GF's 6YO sister off the bus and im OCing
i was wondering because at my bus stop when i was in high school an 18YO student was told that they have to step about 10 ft away from the bus stop if they were smoking a cig, quoting the tobacco free school policy
thank you in advance :)
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
No such MCL here in michigan.

there are other definitions for school or school property, but here is the definition that deals specifically with firearms and schools....



http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(xwf3yk...=on&highlight=school AND property AND firearm

I think it would be a rare event, but could a prosecutor push the issue if he/she wanted to, and would a jury convict? I would hope not, but there is always that possibility that "letter c" above could be used:

c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

The word "function" means:

1.the kind of action or activity proper to a person, thing, or institution; the purpose for which something is designed or exists; role.
2.any ceremonious public or social gathering or occasion.
3.a factor related to or dependent upon other factors: Price is a function of supply and demand.

function. (n.d.). Dictionary.com Unabridged. Retrieved February 15, 2011, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/function


(there are more, but for our discussion these probably suffice)

I could see someone thinking that the law is speaking to # 2 above, and a prosecutor is thinking #1; see the problem? Much like the prosecutor who believes a CPL (Concelaed Pistol License) means you can only carry 1 pistol... otherwise the legislature would have named it a Concealed Pistols License, think it's a bunch of bs. But then again, what I think is immaterial.
 
Last edited:

Onnie

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
664
Location
Maybee, Michigan
I think it would be a rare event, but could a prosecutor push the issue if he/she wanted to, and would a jury convict? I would hope not, but there is always that possibility that "letter c" above could be used:

c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

The word "function" means:

1.the kind of action or activity proper to a person, thing, or institution; the purpose for which something is designed or exists; role.
2.any ceremonious public or social gathering or occasion.
3.a factor related to or dependent upon other factors: Price is a function of supply and demand.

function. (n.d.). Dictionary.com Unabridged. Retrieved February 15, 2011, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/function


(there are more, but for our discussion these probably suffice)

I could see someone thinking that the law is speaking to # 2 above, and a prosecutor is thinking #1; see the problem? Much like the prosecutor who believes a CPL (Concelaed Pistol License) means you can only carry 1 pistol... otherwise the legislature would have named it a Concealed Pistols License, think it's a bunch of bs. But then again, what I think is immaterial.

Impart means to give; bestow; communicate

I don't think the school "imparts" instructions at bus stops. I have yet see a teacher holding class at the local bus stop, which happens to be my drive way, if that was the case, I guess my drive way would be a PFZ
 

kryptonian

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
245
Location
, ,
my guess based on cited law given here would be NO not a school area or PFZ but that wouldn't be the safe answer. unfortunately i live on a corner which makes me a bus stop. parents see me OC all the time and not a word.
 

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
Last edited:

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Impart means to give; bestow; communicate

I don't think the school "imparts" instructions at bus stops. I have yet see a teacher holding class at the local bus stop, which happens to be my drive way, if that was the case, I guess my drive way would be a PFZ

The definition uses the word "or". I'm not saying that I think it is a School Zone, I'm just saying that I could see someone be charged. At that point, it would be up to a jury. Even if one wins, how much money do you think you would need to spend?
 

jmlefler

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Southwest, Michigan, USA
Dr. Todd, you forgot section d...

(d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

Note: ...AND A VEHICLE...

Scary, but this is a school bus, this is the van used to transport athletes to and from school sanctioned events and yes, this might also include students' vehicles that travel from the school to a vo-tech center during the school day, IMHO. And yes, I believe a creative prosecutor could use this to create a 1000' roving WFSZ. It's not what we think they might to, it is what they can do that matters...

Carry on

I think it would be a rare event, but could a prosecutor push the issue if he/she wanted to, and would a jury convict? I would hope not, but there is always that possibility that "letter c" above could be used:

c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

The word "function" means:

1.the kind of action or activity proper to a person, thing, or institution; the purpose for which something is designed or exists; role.
2.any ceremonious public or social gathering or occasion.
3.a factor related to or dependent upon other factors: Price is a function of supply and demand.

function. (n.d.). Dictionary.com Unabridged. Retrieved February 15, 2011, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/function


(there are more, but for our discussion these probably suffice)

I could see someone thinking that the law is speaking to # 2 above, and a prosecutor is thinking #1; see the problem? Much like the prosecutor who believes a CPL (Concelaed Pistol License) means you can only carry 1 pistol... otherwise the legislature would have named it a Concealed Pistols License, think it's a bunch of bs. But then again, what I think is immaterial.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Dr. Todd, you forgot section d...

(d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

Note: ...AND A VEHICLE...

Scary, but this is a school bus, this is the van used to transport athletes to and from school sanctioned events and yes, this might also include students' vehicles that travel from the school to a vo-tech center during the school day, IMHO. And yes, I believe a creative prosecutor could use this to create a 1000' roving WFSZ. It's not what we think they might to, it is what they can do that matters...

Carry on


Federal 1000' zones don't apply if you have a permit from the State. Go read the Federal Statute. A permit from the State -- like a Permit to Purchase/Possess -- or a CPL.
 

jmlefler

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Southwest, Michigan, USA
Thanks! I have read the Federal Statute and what you say is what I believe. But, what you and I believe to be true doesn't prevent a prosecutor from following what he believes to be true - case in point, the current situation that MOC is facing at the Lansing libraries...

Carry on

Federal 1000' zones don't apply if you have a permit from the State. Go read the Federal Statute. A permit from the State -- like a Permit to Purchase/Possess -- or a CPL.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Thanks! I have read the Federal Statute and what you say is what I believe. But, what you and I believe to be true doesn't prevent a prosecutor from following what he believes to be true - case in point, the current situation that MOC is facing at the Lansing libraries...

Carry on

Just a reminder that there are two (2) laws dealing with this: the one that I mentioned is the State of Michigan's Law, the other is Federal Law. Being exempt from the Federal Law does not exempt a person from Michigan's.
 
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Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Depends on where the bus stop is.....

Im gonna have to say you can legally carry to a bus stop if the bus stop is not on school property. Now the reaction you get from the driver if he/she notices may be different. He may see a "nutjob" with a firearm and just drive off, call the police, etc. However, I believe you will be will within your legal right to carry a firearm if you are on public property.

If I am wrong, could someone please enlighten me.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
Just a reminder that there are two (2) laws dealing with this: the one that I mentioned is the State of Michigan's Law, the other is Federal Law. Being exempt from the Federal Law does not exempt a person from Michigan's.
Yeah, but does the Michigan law mention a distance? I think in Michigan, it's just that you can't be on school property with a gun. It's the federal law that creates a PFZ of 1000 feet around school property. And does the federal law define school property, or does it just say "schools?"
 

Golden Eagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
253
Location
SW Michigan
IMO if a bus stop was a school then there could be a roaming 1000' PFZ...

I made this ridiculous comment because I thought we all knew that it wasn't true.
MI actually has 2 licenses; a License to Purchase, Carry, Possess (an oc license lets call it a LPCP)
and a CPL. Both get rid of the 1000 foot rule. Just don't step on the bus.
 
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