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Thread: People getting harassed vs people who haven't. Would like your input and thoughts.

  1. #1
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    People getting harassed vs people who haven't. Would like your input and thoughts.

    I have enjoyed this forum for a couple of years now and have noticed something.
    There are those in here who have OC and seem to get harassed about their rights either by another citizen, store manager or some type of LEO.

    Then, there are those in here who have never been approached at all while OCing, myself included.
    I was just wondering what if anything one group is doing different than the other?

    From what I can tell reading, I don't see anything, but, there has to be something.
    I would love to hear from both sides if you dont mind on your thoughts and ideas and hopefully find something to ease back the harassing.

    Now, take for granted the bit about educating noninformed LEOS/store managers/citizen is a mute point. Kinda like getting a teenager to clean their room. You would have better luck trying to heard a bunch of cats!

    Thanks everyone for your input!

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    Once, by a store mgr. He was on my left side entering Walmart. When I was checking out, he saw my firearm. He was in the same spot as when I entered. He told me he would not have let me enter the store. I got that straightened out, but he still follows me around the store occasionally. Trying to be all sneaky, lol.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I've never had any negative encounters, though I have been approached by people several times. Just tonight, I got the "Is that real?" approach again.

    Did you mean specifically negative encounters, or encounters in general?
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    I was indirectly harassed by a customer at SECU, then in response to that, I was harassed by a pitt county deputy, but that issue was resolved
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    I've never had any negative encounters, though I have been approached by people several times. Just tonight, I got the "Is that real?" approach again.

    Did you mean specifically negative encounters, or encounters in general?
    I am asking not IF you got a negative encounter, but why do you think it happened?
    I am not talking about the person being uninformed. Could it be the way a person who was OCing may be dressed, do you think age has a factor, apperence, facial hair, etc. I am just asking to see if anyone has a thought as to why it happens to some and not others.
    Am I making any sense..and if so..can I get that in writting to show my wife? LOL!

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I still don't understand exactly what you're getting at. Are you asking specifically about being approached in a negative way, or being approached at all?

    I ask because if it's the former, I can't really weigh in on the matter.

    If it's the latter, I couldn't tell you exactly what it is. I'm white and early 20s, but other things change. I'm usually dressed neatly, and often in jeans. I have also carried when I was taking a break from working maintenance for an apartment complex, in which case I had paint all over me and was drenched in sweat. Sometimes I've had a full, somewhat unkempt beard. Other times it has been much more trim. I wear t-shirts, button-up shirts, short sleeved and long sleeved. I'm not the kind of person who walks around smiling all the time, but neither do I sulk. I'm typically courteous when dealing with people. I've been approached by males and females of varying ages and races.
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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Is this what you are asking....( a glimpse at Northerner)

    I have never been approached where action or explanation had to be offered. Any encounters have been educational.

    I OC mainly in the evenings and weekends, due to my work schedule.

    I am a white male, early 40s, crew hair, goatee, and carry myself from my days in the Service and a short stint in LE (+20 years ago). I generally wear Cabelas, Dockers, or Duck cargo pants with a collared shirt, occasionally a baseball hat. IMHO, I believe most sheeple, just assume I am a LEO, but I have never nor would I claim to be LEO. My demeanor is adult and professional, always aware of my surroundings.

    I drive a beat up 26 year old pick'em up truck or a 2010 2-door sports car.

    I certainly don't go looking for confrontations while OCing. For example, in places where LOTS of children congregate (i.e., Chic fil a), I will remain armed but conceal legally. There are places of business I can expect no issue and others places are still virgin to me (i.e., bank). I am not an "OC Exhibitionist" (i.e., wearing a 7 inch Ruger in a drop thigh rig while wearing a trench coat ). I carry an OD Glock 23 in a SERPA retention holster, Condition Zero (13, +1) when out of the house. I rarely wear an extra mag on my hip unless attending an OC event. I do feel like when wearing the mag holster, which others may think too, I am trying to emulate a LEO. I understand the reasoning and right to wear it, but I also see what others might think.

    Does this give you insight or answer your question?
    Last edited by Northerner; 02-15-2011 at 10:03 PM.
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    My incident was after work. Blue jeans and a t shirt. I'm 6'1" tall, 215 lbs, close cut hair, and mustache. Believe me, I look like a cop. That's just the way it goes. I had a hand full of items and just standing in line.

    First the Mgr asked if I was a cop. The Mgr actually thought no one was allowed to ever carry a gun in Walmart. His reasoning was because and I quote, "That guy over there is a cop, and he can't carry here even when he's not working." Which is 100% correct, for that employee. And 100% wrong, for me.

    I used to worry how I looked and dressed. I'd tuck my shirt in, nicer clothes, and all that. Now I could care less. Greasy, grassy, sweaty, untucked shirt, just what ever I have on. I've noticed absolutely no difference in how I am treated between the two.

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    I really have never been approached or questioned.. Just small meaningless comments/remarks.. I'm white 5'10 235lbs... I ugly ... so when I'm carrying people prob think "leave that one alone" Plus I'm a Yankee... Most southerners dont like us anyways
    Last edited by muccione; 02-16-2011 at 05:24 PM.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    What I don't understand is why people bother to answer personal questions, such as 'are you a cop', when asked out in public by complete strangers.

    I would tell them 'please move along', or 'noyfb', or just glare at them until they moved on.

    I think you're asking for trouble by engaging these busybodies in conversation. Yes, there is something to be said about educating the public on first amendment rights and state rules on OC and CC, but c'mon, you know when that is not going to be effective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt402 View Post
    SNIP I was just wondering what if anything one group is doing different than the other?
    Huh? First you say "there has to be something". Then you say one group vs another group. I think you are setting up your issue with the idea that there has to be something. And, then creating two groups.

    No. There does not have to be something. There may be something that some OCers who get harassed are doing; but, there does not have to be something. It can really be as simple as the harasser just wants to harass.

    I have never noticed any "groups". Been here four years.

    By the way, the harassment has been reduced. You shoulda been here 2006-2009. Boy, was there some harassment going on.

    I think that if you really want to reduce harassment, just ask questions of individual posters, and make suggestions when you see something that might have contributed to the harassment.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    What I don't understand is why people bother to answer personal questions, such as 'are you a cop', when asked out in public by complete strangers.

    I would tell them 'please move along', or 'noyfb', or just glare at them until they moved on.

    I think you're asking for trouble by engaging these busybodies in conversation. Yes, there is something to be said about educating the public on first amendment rights and state rules on OC and CC, but c'mon, you know when that is not going to be effective.
    Speaking for myself, I tend to view one aspect of OC as ambassadorship. I don't want to come off as an *******, so I typically try to make an extra effort to be courteous when OCing. I am also trying to educate.

    What do you mean about it not being effective, and asking for trouble?
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    I think the interaction happens with Law Enforcement in certain areas more than random. Meaning...there are issues in some areas more than others. Then with the general public, it's similar. The mindset changes in a given area. There are more relaxed and tolerant areas typically seen in rural areas. Then there are more tense and worrisome such as downtown urban type areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    What I don't understand is why people bother to answer personal questions, such as 'are you a cop', when asked out in public by complete strangers.

    That question generally leads to telling them that they could carry OC if they wanted to, and that it's not illegal. A conversation started like this has ended with me recommending gun shop, gun ranges, classes, and answering questions about where you can carry. It's even led to conversations about CC and how to go about getting a permit. If that's not your thing, that's fine. Personally, I'm not looking to come off as a jerk. Particularly with a gun on my hip. IMO, that's asking for someone to call the cops who might not have otherwise. YMMV

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    I've OC'd for a few years now, and I believe I've had a total of 8 encounters that go beyond a double take or a simple "are you a cop?"

    I actually go out of my way, unnecessarily, to dress nicely and be extra polite while OC'ing. I don't wear my "Will wheelie for boobs" motorcycle shirts while OC'ing.

    I think the frequency of my interactions with both LEO's and everyday citizens is a combination of things.

    - I OC even in places where some people might feel uncomfortable. If I want to cruise through a street festival in downtown Raleigh I will. If it's not illegal it's my right and I carry accordingly.

    -I'm six and half feet tall. People pay extra attention to me regardless.

    - I make eye contact. I don't stare, I don't "mean mug". But if someone is looking at me I will not break eye contact first (please don't confuse this for some childish intimidation tactic). And then I give a genuinely friendly smile because I'm a very friendly person.

    - I stand my ground. When an LEO approaches me, I am wary of the likely fishing trip they're on, but I'm also very polite. I never give consent to anything.

    I'm one of the few people on this forum who have been arrested while open carrying and sent to county lockup for exercising my Constitutional rights (2A, 4A, 5A) when dealing with LEO's.
    Last edited by Smith45acp; 02-16-2011 at 01:32 AM.
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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    For one thing, the OP may be including a couple of posters here, who up until recently, were probably inventing stories to make themselves look cool. Until a few of us called them on their BS, they were plastering the NC section with tales of their bravery in the face of oppressive government agents, always seeming to prevail in the name of truth, justice, and the American way. For some reason, they've seemed to tone down their attempts, if not finally disappearing for good.

    That said, there are people who have legitimate actual bad encounters with either LEOs and or the general public, too. There could be a few factors involved such as personal appearance, but I'd venture to say it's more a matter of bad luck and having to happen to live in areas where certain overly-zealous LEOs are.

    Some areas see less guns compared to others, too. So it could be that some geographical locations are just not as used to seeing private citizens carrying.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 02-16-2011 at 02:31 AM.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    That question generally leads to telling them that they could carry OC if they wanted to, and that it's not illegal. A conversation started like this has ended with me recommending gun shop, gun ranges, classes, and answering questions about where you can carry. It's even led to conversations about CC and how to go about getting a permit. If that's not your thing, that's fine. Personally, I'm not looking to come off as a jerk. Particularly with a gun on my hip. IMO, that's asking for someone to call the cops who might not have otherwise. YMMV
    I see your point, but if you don't answer the question, which is, imo, intrusive, then half of the negative and confrontational 'civilian' encounters I see posted here would not occur. If you are approached by a friendly person you think you can educate, by all means, do so.

    But if I was OC and minding my own business, I would tell anyone approaching me to back off or ignore them and keep moving. If they seemed friendly and said, oh, for example, 'nice gun, are you a LEO?', I'd deflect the question and talk about OC and not answer the intrusive part. I'd say 'OC is legal, you know, even you could do it' and hand them a VCDL card. That way they have no stepping off point for trying to start something.

    Maybe I'm a bit reactionary now, having read a bunch of upsetting tales here, but that's the feeling I have at present.

    Thanks for your input and again, I see your point.

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    I think I understand what the OP is getting at and to a point agree with him. There does seem to be one "group" of OC who quite regularly have encounters with both LEO and private citizens, usually negative encounters. On the other side it seems that a lot of people that OC rarely if ever have any encounter with anyone about their gun other than an occasional "is that real" or "are you a cop". This is similar to the ones that seem to be constantly pulled over for traffic violations or some other type of deal.

    A lot of the difference between the two can be When, Where and How you OC that makes the difference. One who OC every day everywhere is going to have more interaction than one who only OC at certan times and sometimes CC or not even carry at all. Do you exercise your right everywhere, even some places where it is legal but questionable on the part of others? Does your gun stand out or do you stand out. Do you give off the appearace of being "questionable" by how you carry yourself or dress. Does your voice sound gruff and do your movements seem jerky or graceful.

    A lot of this we have no control over as it is our natural appearance or actions, or possibly it is oart of our job or something else. We are judged by all of this whether or not it is correct, legal or right. It is a fact of life. All of these things will lead to more or fewer encounters and all we can do is try to make the public aware of their rights. I think the OP is trying to get some handle on the way people judge us. It is like judging women (to be a sexist pig here) where I have known some thar were not beautiful but could drive men wild wanting her. They just have that natural ability, Some people can carry a gun and no one will even notice where with others it is like a spot light on it. I don't know why, just that it is.

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    Regular Member TrailRunner's Avatar
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    I think it really depends on how you carry yourself, and how "respectful" you appear. I'm a white, 28 year old male with short hair. I don't dress in a suit nor do I tuck my shirt in, but I'm always in clean clothes that fit me (that don't say things like "Kill'em all and let god sort'em out and **** like that ). As far as my firearm goes, it stays snapped into my holster and I don't allow my hand to drift on to it or rest on it unless absolutely necessary.

    If anything, OC forces me to be friendlier than I would normally be because I don't want people to be afraid of me or my firearm. If you walk around scowling at everyone with your hand constantly ready to pluck, people are going to be a bit freaked out.
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    Thanks for the input and I am sorry if I worded things wrong as I was in no way trying to put people into any kind of "group". Just trying to find out why it seemed some people got negative encounters and some didn't. I myself OC as well as CC depending on the situation or some other reason. I am 46yo 6' white male with a shaved head and goatee. I am like most men my age in how I dress and I have never had a negative encounter. I live in Greensboro.

    From what I can tell, it can be various reasons, no rhyme or reason.

    Once again, thanks everyone for your time and understanding!

    Semper Fi !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt402 View Post
    Thanks for the input and I am sorry if I worded things wrong as I was in no way trying to put people into any kind of "group". Just trying to find out why it seemed some people got negative encounters and some didn't. I myself OC as well as CC depending on the situation or some other reason. I am 46yo 6' white male with a shaved head and goatee. I am like most men my age in how I dress and I have never had a negative encounter. I live in Greensboro.

    From what I can tell, it can be various reasons, no rhyme or reason.

    Once again, thanks everyone for your time and understanding!

    Semper Fi !
    I think that there is very much rhyme and reason for it but 1) we haven't figured it out completely and 2) some people refuse to accept that certain things just rub people the wrong way.

    Many years ago a fellow told me that if you tell someone something with a straight enough face and attitude they will believe anything you tell them. Carrying a gun or anything else is the same way, you do it a certain way with a certain look about you no one is going to bother you.

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    I think age, location, prevalence of OC in your area are huge factors. When I was arrested, the PD tried to say there was no legal way to OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    I think that there is very much rhyme and reason for it but 1) we haven't figured it out completely and 2) some people refuse to accept that certain things just rub people the wrong way.

    Many years ago a fellow told me that if you tell someone something with a straight enough face and attitude they will believe anything you tell them. Carrying a gun or anything else is the same way, you do it a certain way with a certain look about you no one is going to bother you.
    this true... Act/carry yourself like you were born with a sidearm... like its a wallet/ just ignore it till you need it

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I think it relates more to the fact that sane human beings don't inspect other human being for guns. A sane human being knows that if s/he can see it, then it isn't a threat anyway, so why bother looking?

    One will only be approached by those who are paying 'that much' attention to others. The Curious, the Paranoid, the Busybodies, the Predators, the Crusaders... Or just by chance. It all depends which one of them you get noticed by, if any. Most people aren't looking, so the majority of encounters are positive as they occur accidentally/by chance. These people have no predisposition and logic works in their heads. This is why they don't wig out and are pleasant to talk to. They aren't loony.

    The pre-disposition of the one who notices will have far more effect than anything you do. That's why you don't find a common thread in the carrier; it isn't there. The course is in the mind of the one who approaches, and this cannot be predicted. The various sorts that are 'looking,' are looking for any excuse to behave just as insanely as they are thinking while they are looking. Loons are always looking for an excuse to generate a public scene/argument where they can cite a reason why they are not the crazy ones. That's why they're 'looking,' and why sane people aren't.

    The actions of others are exactly that. The idea that you can change the world by dressing up fancy or wearing your hair a certain way is for stupid people. Do what you want and don't worry about it. Loonies will be loony, the sane will be sane. Neither are under your control, and that's exactly how it should be.

    Ces't la vie.
    Last edited by ixtow; 02-16-2011 at 09:08 PM.
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    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    Carrying a gun or anything else is the same way, you do it a certain way with a certain look about you no one is going to bother you.
    I wouldn't go so far as to say "no one" will bother you, one never knows who you'll encounter somewhere.

    But other wise I agree with you PT111.

    I have noticed, at least down this-away, that younger OCer's tend to have more encounters than older ones.

    Don't know why other than age. The young fellas I know who carry all dress neatly and act no different than anyone else. I haven't had any issues and only a couple of comments in the "are you a cop" and "is that a real gun" categories. I'm a white male, mid fifties.

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