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Thread: An Off Duty Cop just doing his job

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    An Off Duty Cop just doing his job

    http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news...-deputys-guilt

    According to the surveillance tape, it appears the deputy grabs the woman, slams her up against a wall and tackles her to the ground.

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    Without audio, we can't know the whole story. I didn't see any underlying offense. When he tried to take her into custody, she did resist. However, such resistance is not unlawful unless the arrest was lawful.

    The one fact that absolutely damns the deputy? The video clearly demonstrates that the deputy lied about some significant details. That, of course, calls into question everything that he wrote in the report.

    I can at least say that the officer should receive disciplinary action for lying on the report. Without more information, I can't pass judgment on whether he should be fired or tried as a criminal. Nor can I say whether the woman has a valid lawsuit. The video works for her, though, and against the cop.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The woman very well could have been a jerk but as long as she never laid hands on the deputy or made verbal threats, he is in the same position as any of us, her rights end at the end of his nose, he could have just walked away.

    Me thinks there is a lot more to this story, I have a hunch both sides are hiding something.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    When a case like this surfaces, it calls into question all the arrests this officer has made and allows a savvy lawyer to re-open their client's cases.

    Why would the force/chief want this guy on the payroll?

    How can he even have any cred, anyone arrested by him from this point on can just show this tape to prove he lies to everyone (as do most cops at some point).

    $0.02
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 02-15-2011 at 10:38 PM.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Wonder if there was an encounter outside where there were no cameras? To me the video shows the LEO just picking her out and roughing her up. Looks bad all around, but without further video it's tough to know the whole story.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    He is now a Brady Cop, and the prosecutor is obligated to let anyone know in any case, that goes to court with reports from this officer, that he has lied on reports in the past, his credibility is shot.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Hey it's better than here in WA where the police can shoot you dead after 4 seconds of contact for doing absolutely nothing illegal and get away with it.

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/116286914.html

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    video shows her running up behind him, she obviously says something because the one of the other people coming in turn to look back at her.

    she tries to pull out of his grasp, which is resisting arrest.

    without seeing what happened prior to entering the store and without audio you really cant make a determination on just the video.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    ...he could have just walked away.
    Some people have mental problems that won't allow their ego a bruise, or dare respect another person.

    Why medicate them? Give them a Gun, a Uniform, a Badge, and way too much Power instead. Obviously the right thing.

    Kinda like letting a Government levy taxes; it'll never work to the benefit of The People. NEVER.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    According to the surveillance tape, it appears the deputy grabs the woman, slams her up against a wall and tackles her to the ground.
    I am very reluctant to say this. However, if I know for a fact that I am going about my lawful business as a law-abiding citizen of the United States of American, and anyone, regardless of the local/state/federal/military uniform they wear attempts to divert me from a legal, law-abiding activity, things will rapidly revert to a situation of who can provide what substantiation for who might have done what wrong, and when.

    Who knows? I might wind up on the "loosing" side, but I guarantee you that in the long run, my right under the U.S. Constitution, Federal, State, and Local law, will have been upheld.

    Hopefully, through a few smarts here and there, we won't have to visit our U.S. and State Constitutional rights over my dead body.

    If we do, however, I have literally tons of letters of intent and subsantiating documents, vested in a very wide, disinterested, and connectually disparet group of exceptionally well-endowed individuals (I'm talking trillions of dollars) who will stand on the sidelines if we're able to, in their words, "unf*** ourselves."

    Bottem line for us? Carry on! Know your local laws six ways to Sunday, and carrt each and every time you see fit.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    According to the surveillance tape, it appears the deputy grabs the woman, slams her up against a wall and tackles her to the ground.
    I've been around the block, dude. I've encountered a couple of college-level situations.

    I get it.

    Please stop whom is slaming who into the ground. Unfortunately, both guys and girls will batter one another.

    Our system of law is what it is. Whether you agree with it or not is immaterial.

    I didn't spend 20 years of my cilivilian career for anarchy, so you'll have to do better than that.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    I've done the best that I can to affirm that we are all people.

    I have no past. Please breath, people!

    Please let us let live our lives.

    As "nice" as that sound, yes, it is nice. It's what 99.99% of us would like to do, to be able to have a picnic lunch with our beau next to a lake, river, ocean, or some other waterway, void of these anti-Constitutional workings which smack hard and fast like those enacted to disarm Germany to prepare the way for Hitler's Nazi Germany.

    If any of you start impinging upon my or any other's peaceful existence with respect to this or similar contrary-2A edict, please note that all other all military officers, Congressmen, Senators, Presidents, Federal Judges, NCO's, all all others who have sworn to defend our protect our Constution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, will be there.

    They will not be there reflecting me.

    All of us will be there simply because we love our country, because many of us, from the 1700's and beyond have sacrificed much, including the lives of ourselves, our families, friends, and loved ones, may they rest in peace.

    I would ask all of you to review the teachings of our founding fathers, as their wisdom is the only reason our nation has withstood 200+ years worth of the test of time.

    They thought they had a "better idea." The one thing they did that most of us don't do today, is that they spent years studying failed governments throughout the ages, to make dang shure they didn't screw the pooch for the umpteenth time when they established a new nation, under law.

    They, nay, we, didn't put our name to paper as a testiment to failure. WE pledged our lives, even our fortunes, towards the establishment of a new nation that stood behind her government, with our lives, if necessary.
    Last edited by since9; 02-17-2011 at 12:27 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    It is just depressing that those that are supposed to be there to "Protect and Serve" ultimately only serve themselves and protect each other. I mean, let's be honest, law enforcement lives by their own set of rules. We live in a country where a man or woman can be trusted with the security of radioactive material, but are not trusted in providing their own safety. Or where a man or woman can go to a foreign land and use devastating weapons in defense of our nation, but can not carry a handgun in defense of their children. And all of this after months, or even years of training. Where as Law Enforcement is allowed to get away with crimes that would cause even our most elite military to end up in prison. And the fact that you don't even have to have a college education to get a job as a police officer, you just have to pass a 6 week minimum academy, and you still end up with the ability to destroy or even end a life at your will and you can get away with it in most circumstances is pathetic.

    You will never see a cop admit that they were wrong and mean it. I have seen, with my own eyes, more crimes being committed by law enforcement than I have by actual criminals. And I grew up in the inner city. I mean seriously, I know cops that are living in 3/4 million dollar houses that make less than I do as a Retired Vet. And I am barely above the poverty line.

    The extensive rash of beatings and killing caught on tape by police officers just solidifies the point that police think they can do what they want. And the fact that they are not punished under the same standards as the average citizen provides them with the ability to keep doing it.

    This is what a Police State looks like. The police run the show. Anyone who stands up to them has their life destroyed. Thats all there is to it. And there is no use saying that things are not like that cause my daughter and I are both living it RITE NOW!

    Note: this may not apply to every cop!
    Last edited by CalicoJack10; 02-17-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    SNIP It is just depressing...
    CalicoJack,

    That post is cop-bashing. To avoid moderator editing or deletion, you would need to modify things just a bit. The crucial element is the broad generality--phrasing as though all police are involved. To avoid running afoul of Forum Rule #6, you would need to re-phrase things to make it applicable only to those cops who do that, think that way, etc. Modifier words like "some" cops, "certain" cops, "a few" cops, etc. work well.

    Forum Rule #6

    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, sex, or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!! (red emphasis by Citizen)

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    CalicoJack,

    That post is cop-bashing. To avoid moderator editing or deletion, you would need to modify things just a bit. The crucial element is the broad generality--phrasing as though all police are involved.
    I work with our city's local police department on a regular basis. Nearly all of them are supportive of 2A carry, and the vast majority of them understand and tolerate OC.

    So, in light of the above, might we carry on?
    Last edited by since9; 02-17-2011 at 04:40 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    I don't care whether LEOs like or don't like OC. I don't need them to promote it. It is unacceptable when they take specific actions against it.

    You know what the best word for "feel however you want, but take no action against" is? Tolerate.

    That's what I want from LEOs. Tolerance. Nothing more. Nothing less.
    Last edited by eye95; 02-17-2011 at 08:53 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    In the case of the gang of LEO thugs who climbed the fence (Haha, I did a Furman), notice how they degenerated into acting like a mob, treating a citizen/civilian as a perp/predator, and looking to each other for justification to push further into illegal actions. AND, they knew their dash cams were recording and apparently DIDN'T CARE.

    Appalling.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    When a case like this surfaces, it calls into question all the arrests this officer has made and allows a savvy lawyer to re-open their client's cases.
    I wonder if prior cases determined soley on the basis of his testimony can be thrown out?

    I can't believe he's still on the job, either. He's a bad cop and should be suspended pending investigation, formal charges, conviction, and sentencing.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I wonder if prior cases determined soley on the basis of his testimony can be thrown out?

    I can't believe he's still on the job, either. He's a bad cop and should be suspended pending investigation, formal charges, conviction, and sentencing.
    Not sure about prior cases, but all future cases the prosecutor is obligated to inform of his dishonesty, he is now a Brady Cop. It's a credibility issue and cops who lie should be fired, it makes it hard for anyone to prosecute legitimate cases brought on if that officer is involved.

    See Brady vs. Maryland.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Not sure about prior cases, but all future cases the prosecutor is obligated to inform of his dishonesty, he is now a Brady Cop. It's a credibility issue and cops who lie should be fired, it makes it hard for anyone to prosecute legitimate cases brought on if that officer is involved.

    See Brady vs. Maryland.
    It must be hard to be a cop if no prosecutor will even let you testify to your own name.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    It must be hard to be a cop if no prosecutor will even let you testify to your own name.
    Except many prosecutors and heads of the LEA themselves are not forthcoming and informing those whom they bring cases against that the cops are Brady cops. But yes in many agencies this is supposed to be a "death sentence" for your career as an LEO. I for one would love to see it strictly enforced.

    There was a good article about it in the Seattle P.I.,

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/349169_lying29.html
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    looks to me that If she had been doing anything wrong outside then she would have been roughed and arrested outside, and the woman that turned when she came in appears to be trying to communicate to the guy that she was with cause they didn't even stop tp observe the disturbance right away . and so what if she was running her mouth ( which with no sound you can't really tell ) she wasn't hampering him in his duties or obstructing justice .....the report said that HE WAS OFF DUTY. now if she was talking smack to one of us. would that give us the right to grab her and expect her not to pull back especially as big as that guy was to her ...probally scared her .... and then probally made her fear for her safety in the way he was encroaching on her and you can see she was backing up form his advances untill his actions envolked her fight or flight natural responses.(of which she didn't fight )looks like a case of stick and stones can break my bones but names can get me assaulted, thrown down . some strangers ***** rubbed all over me and arrested

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    I absolutely DETEST all liars. One of my patented "speeches" to people under me involves lying. My position is: If you lie to me about anything, no matter what the subject, I cannot trust you. If I cannot trust you, you do not have a job.

    I refuse to have anything to do with anyone who has lied to me.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    I absolutely DETEST all liars. One of my patented "speeches" to people under me involves lying. My position is: If you lie to me about anything, no matter what the subject, I cannot trust you. If I cannot trust you, you do not have a job.

    I refuse to have anything to do with anyone who has lied to me.
    Wish we had more LEO with your viewpoint. And thank you for having that stance especially since you are in a position above others.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
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    I think that any public employee found to be lying should have their "disciplinary action" printed on a slip of pink!

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