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An Off Duty Cop just doing his job

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
It must be hard to be a cop if no prosecutor will even let you testify to your own name.

Except many prosecutors and heads of the LEA themselves are not forthcoming and informing those whom they bring cases against that the cops are Brady cops. But yes in many agencies this is supposed to be a "death sentence" for your career as an LEO. I for one would love to see it strictly enforced.

There was a good article about it in the Seattle P.I.,

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/349169_lying29.html
 

bushwacker

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
203
Location
pottsboro,texas
looks to me that If she had been doing anything wrong outside then she would have been roughed and arrested outside, and the woman that turned when she came in appears to be trying to communicate to the guy that she was with cause they didn't even stop tp observe the disturbance right away . and so what if she was running her mouth ( which with no sound you can't really tell ) she wasn't hampering him in his duties or obstructing justice .....the report said that HE WAS OFF DUTY. now if she was talking smack to one of us. would that give us the right to grab her and expect her not to pull back especially as big as that guy was to her ...probally scared her .... and then probally made her fear for her safety in the way he was encroaching on her and you can see she was backing up form his advances untill his actions envolked her fight or flight natural responses.(of which she didn't fight )looks like a case of stick and stones can break my bones but names can get me assaulted, thrown down . some strangers prick rubbed all over me and arrested
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
I absolutely DETEST all liars. One of my patented "speeches" to people under me involves lying. My position is: If you lie to me about anything, no matter what the subject, I cannot trust you. If I cannot trust you, you do not have a job.

I refuse to have anything to do with anyone who has lied to me. :mad::cuss:
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I absolutely DETEST all liars. One of my patented "speeches" to people under me involves lying. My position is: If you lie to me about anything, no matter what the subject, I cannot trust you. If I cannot trust you, you do not have a job.

I refuse to have anything to do with anyone who has lied to me. :mad::cuss:

Wish we had more LEO with your viewpoint. And thank you for having that stance especially since you are in a position above others.
 

Toad

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
387
Location
, Virginia, USA
I think that any public employee found to be lying should have their "disciplinary action" printed on a slip of pink!
 

Beliveau

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
10
Location
, ,
Please think about it

All,

I would ask you to please be careful with generalizations about LE. Reading this thread, there are some posts that seem quite anti Law Enforcement, and maybe I'm just sensitive because of what I've seen in other forums as well.

Know this: I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and that means that if there are unlawful orders that come down against civilians and that constitution... my oath stands. Many, many LEOs feel that way. I don't want to see a police state any more than anyone, as I believe it would be the death of the Republic.

I sometimes see a misconception from even my own extended family that people in law enforcement are just power hungry. Not necessarily true. There are bad apples and if that deputy is one of them he needs to be fired.

The danger is that anti - LE sentiment that is taken too far can result in actions that are taken too far. We've lost 15 officers so far this year in 2011. Think about it. LEO is between you and a lot of nastiness out in society. Your local officers go out every night and talk drunk guys into going home, instead of peeing on their girlfriend's living room carpet. They walk up to every traffic stop reminding themself to not be sloppy this time because this is NOT the night they will be shot. It goes on.

I'm in no way defending that deputy, the point of my post is two fold: To give you a picture from the other side, and second to ask you to please not generalize in your opinion of LEO to the point that you think all are power hungry and ready to whack on you.

I applaud responsible, law abiding citizens who are open carrying and concealed carrying, because there aren't enough of us out there in LEO. While we in LEO may be the tip of the spear, we are backed up by a responsible, armed citizenry. Remember that we are on your side.
 

xd shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
333
Location
usa
I applaud your stance and convictions, HOWEVER...

The problem that MANY have is the "thin blue line" or "code of silence" that seems all to prevalent.

If you are aware of a bad cop, what do YOU do? If you KNOW that a fellow LEO has lied on a report, it should be COMMON for it to be reported and taken care of. Unfortunately it seems to be not at all common...

I personally have great respect for anyone who puts on the uniform every day. But I am also wary of them in ALL aspects due to past personal dealings with some not very professional LEO's.

It's a perception that you and all other LEO's must fight every day, fight it by doing the job the right way every time, every day. When you see another officer doing it wrong, call him out, call him on the carpet, make it konwn PUBLICLY that this behaviour is NOT acceptable.

Nobody doubts the courage and the sacrifices made by wearing the uniform. But when too many LAC are afraid of Law Enforcement, who's fault is that?
 

bushwacker

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
203
Location
pottsboro,texas
welllll it looks like that someone has a problem with being generalised as a colective one ....since the rodney king tapes came out I have been hearing "not all cops are bad just cause of a few bad apples" booo hooo. hummmm this seem to be old news to me from the early 80's when me and my freinds and their ole ladies plus guest where being terrorized to get on the ground and then having lights put in our eyes whiles guns drawn and put to our heads and backs and by who, the police...aka,,,the fuzz... and just because a fellow member or some other biker unknown did something on the other side of town or like this one time, just cause someone called and said that two guys were in a fight, and yes they were , fighting across the street that is , and they weren't even part of us. but ,we got the riot act anyway. there we lay on the ground saying" happy birthday susan" seeing how that is what the party was about. and this goes on today ...ie .. can't get a ccl if you are a member of a criminal gang ..not all members of gangs commit crime , why should they be denied...because of a law,policy, mindset.or excuse that the system has come up with years ago (that cops embraced and love to use )that many others as well as myself has had to live with and would now like to welcome the L.E.O.s /L,E,A to the world of GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION. there you go. karma time , thats what your gonna get... its good for ya....now suck it up and quit your crying....enjoy the mess you press.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
All,

I would ask you to please be careful with generalizations about LE. Reading this thread, there are some posts that seem quite anti Law Enforcement, and maybe I'm just sensitive because of what I've seen in other forums as well.

Know this: I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and that means that if there are unlawful orders that come down against civilians and that constitution... my oath stands. Many, many LEOs feel that way. I don't want to see a police state any more than anyone, as I believe it would be the death of the Republic.

I sometimes see a misconception from even my own extended family that people in law enforcement are just power hungry. Not necessarily true. There are bad apples and if that deputy is one of them he needs to be fired.

The danger is that anti - LE sentiment that is taken too far can result in actions that are taken too far. We've lost 15 officers so far this year in 2011. Think about it. LEO is between you and a lot of nastiness out in society. Your local officers go out every night and talk drunk guys into going home, instead of peeing on their girlfriend's living room carpet. They walk up to every traffic stop reminding themself to not be sloppy this time because this is NOT the night they will be shot. It goes on.

I'm in no way defending that deputy, the point of my post is two fold: To give you a picture from the other side, and second to ask you to please not generalize in your opinion of LEO to the point that you think all are power hungry and ready to whack on you.

I applaud responsible, law abiding citizens who are open carrying and concealed carrying, because there aren't enough of us out there in LEO. While we in LEO may be the tip of the spear, we are backed up by a responsible, armed citizenry. Remember that we are on your side.

Good post.

It won't do that much good though. It is hard to fight the shallow level of thought that is generalization with a rational, but complex, argument.
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
Except many prosecutors and heads of the LEA themselves are not forthcoming and informing those whom they bring cases against that the cops are Brady cops. But yes in many agencies this is supposed to be a "death sentence" for your career as an LEO. I for one would love to see it strictly enforced.

There was a good article about it in the Seattle P.I.,

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/349169_lying29.html
That's why it's so VITALLY crucial to record LEO encounters where lawful to do so.

Here in Ohio, I can record any conversation to which I'm a party, and without permission or even notice. FOIA request ALL materials related to an encounter, including field notes. Do NOT disclose that you have a recording, until you have ALL of this material, and include evidence of dishonesty in your formal complaint.

To give you an idea of how much bad cops fear recordings, I was banned from another forum for recommending LAWFUL recording of LEO encounters. Of course the greatest opponent of recording there was a moderator who is Cincinnati area LEO who had previously DEFENDED overt criminal activity by police, and in crudely White supremacist terms.
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
All,

I would ask you to please be careful with generalizations about LE. Reading this thread, there are some posts that seem quite anti Law Enforcement, and maybe I'm just sensitive because of what I've seen in other forums as well.
If you go to LEO oriented forums and blogs, you will see a LOT of posts that are anti-citizen, as well as anti-gun, racist, etc.

Experience and observation have taught me that there's ZERO benefit to trusting the police and INFINITE danger to doing so.

Until there's a smartphone app that can tell me whether any random cop is dirty or not, it's in my interest to not give up one IOTA of any right I have. Unless required to by law, or I have a good reason to, I will NOT talk to the police without benefit of counsel. I will NEVER consent to ANY search, EVER.

The truth is that in the VAST majority of instances, if an LEO knows that a fellow LEO is violating the rights of citizens or even committing overt crimes, he will NOT turn in that other cop. There is NO other explanation for how a home invasion, burglary and kidnapping ring could operate inside of the Chicago Police Department for YEARS. Other examples are the murders committed by the NOPD on the Danziger Bridge and the murder of Kathryn Johnston by the Atlanta PD. A few participate. A LOT know.

There's an "us vs. them" attitude in law enforcement. I can foolishly pretend it doesn't exist or I can take the necessary measures to protect myself from it. Guess which one I'm doing.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Finally, do not flatter yourself, you and your fellow officers are not the point of the spear, LACs are. There are not enough officers, as you have pointed out, to be the point of the spear. But there are millions of LACs legally armed to have your back when you are not there to have their back.

Good post, OC for ME. Well-balanced and objective.

I work with local LE on a periodic basis, mainly in community involvement. I had a conversation last week with my main point of contact, and he confirmed a couple of things, most notably that they are spread too thin to make a difference without the eyes and ears of the rest of us throughout the community.

I know some here would not call their local PD's unless it was to report needing a hearse for an unwelcome intruder. That's your choice, and I respect that. I, on the other hand, have made several reports over the last year and a half, two where I've given a statement. That's my choice, and I hope you respect that.

My point of contact is a member of the NRA, and supports the RKBA, including CC (which he prefers that we do) and OC (which he respects that we do). Interestingly, he knows my background, and towards the end of our conversation last week he commented that if I were ever with him on a ride-along, he wouldn't hesitate asking me to back him up if things hit the fan.

So, while I do hold law enforcement accountable, and might highlight certain instances where they either weren't being accountable, or weren't policing themselves, I know most LE agencies are a cut above the relatively few dunderheaded ones out there making the others look bad. I know for a fact that whenever we see an officer crossing the line on the news, most law enforcement personnel are saying, "Aw, crap. Why did he have to go and do that? What a knucklehead."

There is a difference, however, between how they feel about it personally, and what many are willing to do professionally to police themselves.

When I was in the Air Force, one had to mind their Ps and Qs pretty darn well, for rarely was any discrepancy overlooked. If you did something deserving of busting a check ride, you busted the check ride. If you did something squirrly during normal flight, you can bet you'd hear about it in front of the ops officer, and letters of reprimand for officers who made honest and even minor mistakes were common. Everything was documented, and if the errors accumulated, or were severe enough, you were given additional training, sometimes after having been disqualified (permanent record), and if things didn't improve, you were FEB'd (flight evaluation board), which usually meant permanent disqualification, often with a dismissal from the service.

That was for the honest mistakes. For those who broke regs, things rapidly headed towards a courts martial, often resulting in a dishonorable discharge, and if a crime was involved, time at Leavenworth.

Keep in mind this is for a group of government employees who did not routinely carry firearms, except in combat!

So, when I read about public servants who do routinely carry firearms being protected by their comrades in arms, it smacks of unprofessionalism and violates the public trust.

Again, most cops don't fit this stereotype. I'm not concerned with that group.

I'm concerned about those who, unfortunately, do fit the stereotype of being "law unto themselves."
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
SVG, In my youth I was one. My attitude about liars was formed years before my experience as a LEO and has not deviated since.

I am the same way, although I never have been an LEO. I will loose bids and wonder what the hell happened until I realize simply the other guy con'ed or lied his way into the job. I just am not willing to do that, even though many consider it accepted business practice.

Honest contractors are often broke contractors.
 
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