This is what P4P and the NRA brings ya!

Utah Permit bill forcing out of state residents to get a permit in their state first.

Supported by NRA

Here is the justification from the bill's sponsor:

Valentine said the bill would give states control over their own residents...

Link: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51247063-76/utah-permit-bill-state.html.csp

Where did you see that it was supported by the NRA?

Thundar said:

Utah Permit bill forcing out of state residents to get a permit in their state first.

Supported by NRA

Here is the justification from the bill's sponsor:

Valentine said the bill would give states control over their own residents...

Link: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51247063-76/utah-permit-bill-state.html.csp

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I did not see the support from the NRA in the Article. Did I miss it, or did you get that information from another source?

All I have to say to the NRA is

I'm so glad they are always willing to jump in and help us. sarcasm off.

This bill was supported by Alice Tripp, the lobbyist for the TEXAS STATE RIFLE ASSOCIATION. I received an e-mail from her a few weeks ago in which she praised this bill. Her reason for supporting this bill, was likely due to CHL instructors in Texas who didn't like losing revenue from potential customers who were getting licenses from Utah.

ccwinstructor said:

I did not see the support from the NRA in the Article. Did I miss it, or did you get that information from another source?

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There was a point to the SL Tribune article fom the Ammoland daily news summary which stated the bill was supported by the NRA.

C2I2 is a bacterial infection

44Brent said:

This bill was supported by Alice Tripp, the lobbyist for the TEXAS STATE RIFLE ASSOCIATION. I received an e-mail from her a few weeks ago in which she praised this bill. Her reason for supporting this bill, was likely due to CHL instructors in Texas who didn't like losing revenue from potential customers who were getting licenses from Utah.

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Concealed Carry Instruction Industry = C2I2
Perks for Permittees = P4P

This is not a surprise.

C2I2 always supports P4P, as this is jobs preservation. The NRA is the largest C2I2 organization in the nation. Many states have "NRA certified instructor" written into their laws as the only one that can provide the required instruction.

C2I2 is a bacterial infection that feeds off of P4P. Constitutional Carry is the antibiotic.

Thundar said:

C2I2 is a bacterial infection that feeds off of P4P. Constitutional Carry is the antibiotic.

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Doug Huffman wishes me to share his "approval and heartfelt thanks" for this remark.

Seeing as I could not agree more, I thought I would do publicly.

So, +1

People should be getting permits in their own state first, and then subsequent states if they wish to. Nothing wrong with the Utah bill at all.

I articulated my reasoning in the previous thread about this bill, but suffice it to say, there are plenty of reasons this bill was a good idea.

The permits would go away, if the sheep would stop consenting to State Control.
The U.S. Constitution is all the PERMIT you need.

marshaul said:

Doug Huffman wishes me to share his "approval and heartfelt thanks" for this remark.

Seeing as I could not agree more, I thought I would do publicly.

So, +1

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i miss Doug alot. he's my friend, and i am NOT ashamed of that!

Ryan45cal said:

...there are plenty of reasons this bill was a good idea.

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Name one.

McX said:

i miss Doug alot. he's my friend, and i am NOT ashamed of that!

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I missed Doug too. So, I found his email address and we are in contact. Doug's good people.

Ryan45cal said:

People should be getting permits in their own state first, and then subsequent states if they wish to. Nothing wrong with the Utah bill at all.

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At $150 a pop, ten permits would cost me $1,500, not to mention the time required for the paperwork, and possibly having to take a firearms safety course for each and every state (brings the total to $2,500).

That's rather insane, and is why reciprocity laws were established, such that if I have a CHP here in Colorado, I can CC in all the states painted blue.

I articulated my reasoning in the previous thread about this bill, but suffice it to say, there are plenty of reasons this bill was a good idea.

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Nope. Not a one. Thundar, in post #6, hit the nail on the head as to why this bill should die, and Constitutional Carry should be incorporated into every State's Constitution.

Ryan45cal said:

People should be getting permits in their own state first, and then subsequent states if they wish to. Nothing wrong with the Utah bill at all.

I articulated my reasoning in the previous thread about this bill, but suffice it to say, there are plenty of reasons this bill was a good idea.

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and that leaves the folks that live in states like MD, NY, NJ, etc with what option?

This bill is just stupid.

since9,

I meant that people should be getting a permit in the state they live in, first. I did not say to get a permit for every state you ever travel to.

Walt_Kowalski,

You may want to do more research on this bill before trashing it. This bill doesn't apply to states in which Utah does NOT have a reciprocal agreement with. Citizens in those states can still apply for a Utah permit without one in their home state.

As for reasons why this bill was a good idea, how about knowing the laws of the state you actually live in; not one located 1,000 miles away from you?

As an example: in Utah, signs carry no force of law. In my state ALL signs carry the force of law, carry a criminal charge, and possible permanent revocation of your carry permit. Might be something you want to know? Remind me what they go over in CCW classes again; would state laws regarding firearms be one of the topics? In Utah, you can carry in schools; in my state, it's a felony. I also recall that in Texas, people who were NOT eligible for a carry permit there were circumventing CCW law by getting a Utah permit. I really love the idea of those guys carrying.

Shall I go on?

Ryan45cal said:

As for reasons why this bill was a good idea, how about knowing the laws of the state you actually live in; not one located 1,000 miles away from you?

As an example: in Utah, signs carry no force of law. In my state ALL signs carry the force of law, carry a criminal charge, and possible permanent revocation of your carry permit. Might be something you want to know? Remind me what they go over in CCW classes again; would state laws regarding firearms be one of the topics? In Utah, you can carry in schools; in my state, it's a felony. I also recall that in Texas, people who were NOT eligible for a carry permit there were circumventing CCW law by getting a Utah permit. I really love the idea of those guys carrying.

Shall I go on?

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You could start with a reason that made sense in the first place.

Stay with me here. We'll go through this nice and slow...

In many states, a nonresident permit (in some cases any permit) from another state is not recognized. Furthermore, in certain other states (which unsurprisingly also fall into the first category) folks have a very hard time getting a permit at all.

See, for example, myself. While I am able to establish residency at will in either Virginia or California, as a practical matter I must go with the state from which I have my driver's license, which is necessarily California while I am in school. As, therefore, a "San Francisco resident" in the context of applying for a concealed weapons permit in either state, I am unable to get such a permit, since the City (illegally) won't issue them.

(Not to mention that I'm already quite a bit more knowledgeable in California (and Virginia) law than any C2I p) class might hope to render its students.)

Now, what the hell does Utah accomplish by making me get a permit here first? Do you think I'm unqualified due to my place of residence?

And what is the point of making sure I "know the laws of my own state" for a permit which isn't even valid in my own state? Perhaps Utah should also start requiring training in Pakistani carry laws (only for out of state carriers, of course), since we're so concerned with places totally unrelated to where the permit will be used?

Do go on, Ryan. Do go on.

Ryan45cal said:

People should be getting permits in their own state first, and then subsequent states if they wish to. Nothing wrong with the Utah bill at all.

I articulated my reasoning in the previous thread about this bill, but suffice it to say, there are plenty of reasons this bill was a good idea.

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Maine issues permits at 18. Other states at 21. Some recognize the Maine permit at 18, some don't.

Nothing wrong with the Utah bill if you believe in P4P.

yes sir!

since9 said:

At $150 a pop, ten permits would cost me $1,500, not to mention the time required for the paperwork, and possibly having to take a firearms safety course for each and every state (brings the total to $2,500).

That's rather insane, and is why reciprocity laws were established, such that if I have a CHP here in Colorado, I can CC in all the states painted blue.



Nope. Not a one. Thundar, in post #6, hit the nail on the head as to why this bill should die, and Constitutional Carry should be incorporated into every State's Constitution.

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constitutional carry in every state in the union. its only natural, its only right!

Ryan45cal said:

since9,

I meant that people should be getting a permit in the state they live in, first.

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By "first" you imply there's a "second." What's "second?"

Citizens in those states can still apply for a Utah permit without one in their home state.

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Oh, joy. So I have to pay twice as much if I want to carry into a neighboring state. That's not terribly bright.

As for reasons why this bill was a good idea, how about knowing the laws of the state you actually live in; not one located 1,000 miles away from you?

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That's actually a good point, and is something all CCers need to remember. However, I'd much rather our 2A rights extend to unrestriced OC and CC, with no exceptions other than the usual ones such as beyond electronic scanners (courthouses, airport terminals, etc).

I also recall that in Texas, people who were NOT eligible for a carry permit there were circumventing CCW law by getting a Utah permit. I really love the idea of those guys carrying.

Shall I go on?

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Please do! You're making a wonderful case for the national reciprocity bill.

marshaul said:

And what is the point of making sure I "know the laws of my own state" for a permit which isn't even valid in my own state? Perhaps Utah should also start requiring training in Pakistani carry laws (only for out of state carriers, of course), since we're so concerned with places totally unrelated to where the permit will be used?

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Excellent analogy, marshaul.

No. He is simply explaining a misconception about the proposed Utah law.

Let's save the national reciprocity debate for the thread already started for it. It won't pass anyway. An odd alliance of antis (who want to kill it for expedient reasons) and Liberty-lovers (who want it killed on the principle of States' Rights) will far outnumber those who support it because of its expedience for carry.

Anyway, I'll move on. This thread is supposed to be about Utah's nonresident permits. (I fully expect a rant on why we need national reciprocity to be posted here in a show of defiance. I won't respond and hope that others choose to keep that from side-tracking this thread.)