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Thread: No charges against seattle officer who killed woodcarver

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    No charges against seattle officer who killed woodcarver

    No charges against Seattle officer who shot woodcarver

    King County prosecutors have decided not to file criminal charges against Seattle police Officer Ian Birk in the fatal shooting of woodcarver John T. Williams, according to sources familiar with the decision. Meanwhile, the Police Department has found the shooting unjustified, which could lead to Birk's firing.
    By Steve Miletich
    Seattle Times staff reporter

    STORY
    Live Free or Die!

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    I was afraid this was the path it was headed down. When I saw the questions and results from the inquest it just looked bad.

    Why no question like:
    "Did Officer Birk have just cause for the stop?"
    "Was Mr. Williams doing anything wrong?"
    "Who caused this incident?"
    etc...

    The SPD will quietly fire him and hope it all goes away. Nothing to see here...

    RIP Mr. Williams.

    So does this up the ante to OC in Seattle?

    Anyone on the forum ever involved in training officers? Is there a way to stretch this into anything resembling a justifiable shoot?

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    I hope the system worked and there is some evidence we haven't heard about yet.

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    I cant believe I am saying this, maybe the Feds will step in with a civil rights action against Birk.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    I cant believe I am saying this, maybe the Feds will step in with a civil rights action against Birk.
    +1.... And the entire SPD.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    SNIP King County prosecutors have decided not to file criminal charges against Seattle police Officer Ian Birk in the fatal shooting of woodcarver John T. Williams, according to sources familiar with the decision.
    This is fine. Never hurts for the public to see how deep the cesspool is. Pity it took a man dying to plumb the depths; but, what goes around comes around--people are going to remember this.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayjax82 View Post
    I hope the system worked and there is some evidence we haven't heard about yet.
    I hope fairies are real and the leprechauns will be waiting with a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

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    I pray we don't end up with anything reminiscent of the Rodney King riots and civil unrest due to this.

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if anything short of that would actually result in change. I suspect we'll never know either way.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    I pray we don't end up with anything reminiscent of the Rodney King riots and civil unrest due to this.
    We need it.

    We run this country, not 'they'...

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    I pray we don't end up with anything reminiscent of the Rodney King riots and civil unrest due to this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    I'm wondering if anything short of that would actually result in change. I suspect we'll never know either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    We need it.

    We run this country, not 'they'...
    +1

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    This is absolutely absurd. How can anyone who sees the tape and witness statements not see manslaughter at the very least.

    I didn't think he would be charged with murder, but I was thinking he would be charged with manslaughter.

    If the DA refuses to prosecute then the family should look into filing a petition for private prosecution. Hopefully the judge wont be as corrupt as the DA.

    If no charges are filed then he will probably get his job back. The union will protect him. This thug will be back on the streets with a badge again soon. Maybe after he murders his next victim, something will be done about it.

    Although I think it will be a few years away, eveyone should remember the name Dan Satterberg come election time.
    I wonder if the decision would be different if he was up for reelection this year.
    Last edited by END_THE_FED; 02-16-2011 at 05:13 AM.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    This is absolutely absurd. How can anyone who sees the tape and witness statements not see manslaughter at the very least.

    I didn't think he would be charged with murder, but I was thinking he would be charged with manslaughter.

    If the DA refuses to prosecute then the family should look into filing a petition for private prosecution. Hopefully the judge wont be as corrupt as the DA.

    If no charges are filed then he will probably get his job back. The union will protect him. This thug will be back on the streets with a badge again soon. Maybe after he murders his next victim, something will be done about it.

    Although I think it will be a few years away, eveyone should remember the name Dan Satterberg come election time.
    I wonder if the decision would be different if he was up for reelection this year.
    After the "split" decision by the Inquest jury, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that there would be no prosecution. Any trial would draw from the same jury pool as the inquest did and why would a prosecutor go forward when it would be pretty much assured that the jury would be at minimum "hung"?

    The issue here is the law that shields lawmen from prosecution unless they acted with malice or lack of good faith. We all can think this was the case but the prosecutor has to prove it. Not all that easy.

    Hopefully the Chief will fire the officer and the family will sue the City. It is my understanding that many protections afforded individuals as employees cease to exist if they are operating outside the policies and procedures of the employer. In this case, if the officer was found by the review board to not following Department procedures he might well be personally liable for his actions in a lawsuit. If this is correct, Mr Birk could have a really large judgement against him, along with the City.

    I too would like to see the Feds step in. Not because I think the prosecutor is corrupt but because I think the "culture" in the Seattle Police Department is a holdover from the 50's and 60's. About the only change is that the "envelopes" don't get collected and passed up the command chain like they used to. Time for a "remodel".

    For now we need to wait for the Official Announcement from the review board today and the Chief's plan forward on this officer.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Sigh.......so sad.

    I think the grand jury is not a true picture of what would happen in this case, is there someone who wants to find this man guilty helping to pick these jurors? Or was it left solely up to the prosecutor, who doesn't have much to garner by prosecuting his fellow employee?

    I would contribute to a private prosecutor to bring this man up on charges, it still is murder maybe not pre-meditated but still murder.

    I doubt there will be Rodney King like rights, Natives are only around 1% of U.S. population.

    This really is why we need to revert to a more constitutional "justice" system. We have relinquished to much power and freedom to "authorities".

    I now pretty bummed, you know how much native family I now have to deal with?

    Mr. Birk better never show his face on a reservation.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I hope fairies are real and the leprechauns will be waiting with a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
    Sadly, your sarcasm is probably correct. A bad cop got off light.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Prosecutors have been confronted with a steep legal hurdle in deciding whether to charge Birk with murder or manslaughter. State law shields police officers from criminal prosecution when they claim they used deadly force in self-defense, unless it can be shown they acted with malice and a lack of good faith.
    Anyone know which law they are referring to in this statement?

    And I have still never seen the issue of RAS addressed by the SPD, Prosecutor's office, et al in this case. It is still my contention that the simple unnecessary encounter of Mr. Williams was illegal.
    Live Free or Die!

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    My guess would be that they were twisting around the same self defense law that is available to everyone. Last I checked there was no LEO exception for murder.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Anyone know which law they are referring to in this statement?

    And I have still never seen the issue of RAS addressed by the SPD, Prosecutor's office, et al in this case. It is still my contention that the simple unnecessary encounter of Mr. Williams was illegal.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.040
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    We need it.

    We run this country, not 'they'...
    I disagree. We don't need riots, or violence. We need political reform that directly eliminates the modern police state.

    Right now we have a vicious cycle. To a large degree, the police are creating their own enemies. They do this by:
    • Shoving people in prison for for non-violent, non-property crime offenses -- turning them into real hardened criminals.
    • Harassing people who are behaving lawfully,
    • Attacking free and innocent citizens.
    • Murdering free and innocent citizens.


    The result is an increased need for the police to protect 'us' from all the violent and dangerous people that they are helping to create.

    The person below is a vivid reminder of what happens when we let let police run amok, of the police never being held accountable for their actions, of bad police remaining on the force until retirement:



    We don't need riots, or people like Monfort shooting police. Those kind of things will only serve to justify the militarized modern police state. It gets them more funding, more media attention, and more power.

    Instead we need political action that leads to drastically changing laws, police practices, police funding, and eradicate Union power -- to produce long lasting change.

    Until we have that change, the police will continue to create a more violent society -- and one where they can act with impunity.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 02-16-2011 at 01:01 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    I disagree. We don't need riots, or violence. We need political reform that directly eliminates the modern police state.

    Right now we have a vicious cycle. To a large degree, the police are creating their own enemies. They do this by:
    • Shoving people in prison for for non-violent, non-property crime offenses -- turning them into real hardened criminals.
    • Harassing people who are behaving lawfully,
    • Attacking free and innocent citizens.
    • Murdering free and innocent citizens.


    The result is an increased need for the police to protect 'us' from all the violent and dangerous people that they are helping to create.

    The person below is a vivid reminder of what happens when we let let police run amok, of the police never being held accountable for their actions, of bad police remaining on the force until retirement:



    We don't need riots, or people like Monfort shooting police. Those kind of things will only serve to justify the militarized modern police state. It gets them more funding, more media attention, and more power.

    Instead we need political action that leads to drastically changing laws, police practices, police funding, and eradicate Union power -- to produce long lasting change.

    Until we have that change, the police will continue to create a more violent society -- and one where they can act with impunity.

    Won't happen without a revolt of some kind. I'm all for a peaceful protest at city hall. Surround the building and let no one leave until Diaz resigns, Birk is fired and Satterberg either prosecutes Birk or resigns. If it can be accomplished in oppressive middle eastern regimes, it can be accomplished in Seattle.
    Last edited by Bobarino; 02-16-2011 at 01:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobarino View Post
    Won't happen without a revolt of some kind. I'm all for a peaceful protest at city hall. Surround the building and let no one leave until Diaz resigns, Birk is fired and Satterberg either prosecutes Birk or resigns. If it can be accomplished in oppressive middle eastern regimes, it can be accomplished in Seattle.
    So are you suggesting this?

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.40.040
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post

    We would have to have a definition of "restrains", but I don't think that would meet the criteria. I searched the WA Legislature site for a definition but I cannot find one.
    Last edited by Bobarino; 02-16-2011 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobarino View Post
    We would have to have a definition of "restrains", but I don't think that would meet the criteria. I searched the WA Legislature site for a definition but I cannot find one.
    The definition is right in the RCW's.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.40.010
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    The definition is right in the RCW's.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.40.010
    Thanks. I searched for the plural form. It appears that would meet the legal definition. It would take a massive crowd to pull off such an act of defiance. I doubt the city has enough people with the stones to do it. I'm open for other suggestions.

    Bobby

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Taxpayers are going to pay out a lot of money in settlement for this shoot. It appears that there is a lot of politics in play here, I mean, SPD says the shoot was unjustified, and the prosecutor said they will not file charged because they don't think they could win a criminal conviction.

    They both go into a room, the ruling that would result in a civil case, not criminal, ruled that Birk was not justified, while the criminal aspect of the case is ruled, well, basically by default, found to be justified. I think the prosecutor believes that Birk was unjustified, but realizes that a criminal case would be pointless.

    Let's think about this for a moment, there are two witnesses (at least) that testified that Williams was not threatening. There is video footage that show Birk out of his car, approaching Williams, with gun drawn, the four shots are fired into the side of Williams...Birk doesn't identify himself as an officer, and Birk gives Williams not time to even turn around to see if he was the one being yelled at by Birk.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-16-2011 at 01:46 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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