OCDO Press Release - Senator Greg Ever’s Open Carry Bill is Not Enough!

77zach · Feb 21, 2011

gun rights

As much as freedom is suffering in this country right now, the worm is turning on gun rights, at the state level. People know "gun control" is a fraud, many believe it's a right, and they're being introduced to shooting as a hobby/sport. Shall issue concealed carry, while denying bearing arms is a right, has normed guns to millions of more people throughout the land.

If SB 234 passes as it is now, I would not be surprised at all if we had constitutional carry in Florida by the time Rick Scott's first term is up.

Grapeshot · Feb 21, 2011

Given: licensing doesn't stop BGs from getting and carrying a gun.

BGs don't OC for a number of simple, logical reasons.

So the point of allowing OC only with a permit is ........... ?

77zach · Feb 21, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Given: licensing doesn't stop BGs from getting and carrying a gun.

BGs don't OC for a number of simple, logical reasons.

So the point of allowing OC only with a permit is ........... ?

Your logic is flawless.

The problem is that the legislature is full of neocons who for the most part don't understand OC, would never do it, and take the word of "law enforcement." Law enforcement and the media would be strongly opposed, would have absolute fits over unlicensed carry, so the sponsors feel something is better than nothing. The senator, Dean, who is "shaky" according to the OC.org email release, is a former county sheriff. Adding the unlicensed provision I suspect would kill the bill in the very first committee tomorrow.

77zach · Feb 21, 2011

Unlicensed carry

BTW, South Carolina probably won't but nevertheless has a decent chance of going to constitutional carry in one swoop. What's a big reason why? The bill's main sponsor is retired law enforcement and the state's chief LEO is FOR it if you can believe it. Immediately, this puts a tight muzzle on the media and other "law enforcement officials."

ixtow · Feb 21, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Given: licensing doesn't stop BGs from getting and carrying a gun.

BGs don't OC for a number of simple, logical reasons.

So the point of allowing OC only with a permit is ........... ?

I've asked this question over and over again.

Some say "baby steps" some tell me I'm not rich and cool enough to be allowed to have a gun at all, much less carry it. Mostly the latter.

Florida was First with CWP, at the cost of OC. CWP was instituted as a way to take carrying firearms away from everyone except the Only Ones. It has been a longstanding attitude of superiority, and CWP here was founded upon it.

We're fighting not only the Anti's, but the Elitist Gun Owners who do not believe the 2nd Amendment is for anyone but the famous and the wealthy. It is VERY Neo-Con down here.

ixtow · Feb 21, 2011

77zach said:
The problem is that the legislature is full of neocons...

Bingo.

And lots of them are former LEOs.

Go Figure....

ccblue16 · Feb 21, 2011

Open carry bill

Mike said:
OpenCarry.org
(A pro-gun Internet community of over 24,000 registered members)

For Immediate Release – February 15, 2011

---------

Senator Greg Ever’s Open Carry Bill is Not Enough

OpenCarry.org Calls on the Florida Senate Committee on Criminal Justice to Remove the License Requirement from the Open Carry Bill

---------

Next week the Florida Senate Committee on Criminal Justice will hold a hearing on Senator Greg Evers’ SB 234 which would decriminalize the open carry of properly holstered handguns in Florida. Unfortunately the bill merely allows open carry by those who possess a “Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License” or a similar state issued permit accepted by Florida.

“Our constitutional tradition does not tolerate licensing schemes to exercise fundamental rights,” says John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, “so why should gun owners have to pay for and carry a license just to open carry?”

“Don’t get me wrong,” adds Pierce, “I think Senator Ever’s bill is a step in the right direction, but why go for half measures when Florida’s Governor Rick Scott ran for office in part on the open carry issue and stands ready to sign a full strength open carry rights restoration bill?”

Florida is one of only 7 states banning open carry, along with Illinois, New York, South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas, and Oklahoma. Of the 43 states allowing open carry, 29 states allow open carry in public without any license, and Oklahoma is widely expected to raise this number to 30 this year.

OpenCarry.org calls on the Florida Senate Committee on Criminal Justice to amend SB 234 to remove the license requirement from the open carry bill. “Open carry is a right not a privilege, emphasizes Mr. Pierce, “and our members who live in or visit Florida will be reminding the Committee of this important American value.”

“Besides,” continues Pierce, “an FBI study concluded that criminals rarely open carry,” and “police in Georgia recently confirmed an instance of open carriers deterring an armed robbery of a Wafflehouse just by open carrying while eating some chicken fried steak and short stacks.”

Unlicensed open carry was legal for most of the Sunshine state’s history, and it’s high time the right was fully restored. SB 234 must be amended to fully restore the **right** to open carry.
Carry on!
###

Media Contact:

John Pierce, co-founder and spokesperson, OpenCarry.org, John at OpenCarry.org

I believe in the open carry bill, however not the unlicensed open carry, this gives a criminal who can get a hold of a weapon to carry it. That is not right, he doesn't have the right to begin with and how is one going to know who is licensed and who isn't. SB 234 Must be Amend to Open Carry by licensed persons only.

rpyne · Feb 21, 2011

ccblue16 said:
I believe in the open carry bill, however not the unlicensed open carry, this gives a criminal who can get a hold of a weapon to carry it. That is not right, he doesn't have the right to begin with and how is one going to know who is licensed and who isn't. SB 234 Must be Amend to Open Carry by licensed persons only.

Who issued your license to express yourself? Freedom of speech should only apply to those who are qualified and licensed by the state. How are you going to know if someone is intelligent enough to comment unless they are licensed?

Grapeshot · Feb 21, 2011

ccblue16 said:
I believe in the open carry bill, however not the unlicensed open carry, this gives a criminal who can get a hold of a weapon to carry it. That is not right, he doesn't have the right to begin with and how is one going to know who is licensed and who isn't. SB 234 Must be Amend to Open Carry by licensed persons only.

Oh come on!

Criminals will get guns regardless - licensing doesn't keep guns from them.

How will you know the difference? Same way that you do now - by their actions. Not how they wear their hat, whether the have tattoos, or what is on their belt.

Do you really think that BGs are going to OC so as to allowthe whole world and LEOs to take notice. Even with the permit process, LEOs have no RAS (absenting other factors) to stop and check someone for a permit.

The only things the permit system accomplishes is to penalize legal gun owners and keep the money coming into the state.

Rich7553 · Feb 21, 2011

"In attempting to discredit open carry, anti-gun activists often like to ask the question, "How do I know that the person openly carrying is in fact a law-abiding citizen and not a criminal?" While this is an attempt to imply that anyone who lawfully carries a firearm is a potential criminal, thankfully there is an authoritative answer available. The 2006 FBI study "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers" by Anthony Pinizzotto revealed that criminals carefully conceal their firearms, and they eschew the use of holsters. In layman's terms, this report tells us that, statistically speaking, citizens who are openly wearing a properly holstered handgun and are willing to subject themselves to the intense public and law enforcement scrutiny that open carry brings with it are not criminals." - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2494233/posts

KennyPro · Feb 22, 2011

Open Carry

I also think that if there were a person that was open carrying with bad intent- he may be prevented from doing crime by the sight of many others openly armed to protect themsleves. Most BG's are predators that do not like even odds...they like unarmed, helpless victims, witnesses, and bystanders. No one should have to scream for a cop in the face of violent crime. I do not think a license should be needed but perhaps a safety training course should be mandatory for open carry. I don't think too many criminals would sign up for a course....they like to hide in annonymity!

cooter1955 · Feb 22, 2011

~*'Phoenix'*~ said:
Yes, it would be great if we could do away with licensing. But, you know what, I already got the license. The fee is obnoxious, but theey do perform backgroud checks, fingerprints, license printing etc. I'm going on good faith that they actually keep criminals and under-prepared-wannabe-bigshots from misusing guns.
I say we pick our battles. Let's win this one as-is, let our opponents see we are graceful winners, we don't abuse our rights/privileges. Once the dust has settled, then we try to finish getting the rest of our rights back.
Let's not squander our biggest step in the right direction in two-decades just because it isn't big enough.

i agree with picking our battles.i want to be able to open carry my hand gun.if they dont do away with ccw to be able to open carry so be it.its a step in getting to open carry.so senators think about it we all vote.

rpyne · Feb 22, 2011

cooter1955 said:
i think that we still need ccw.the bg arent going to worry about ccw if we dont need one.they are going to carry any way.i want to be able to open carry my hand gun.i have my ccw.i think that if we have back round checks this will help some what to keep guns out of the hands of people that dont need to have hand guns.BUT the BG will still get them.if we carry open the BG will think twice about the crimes they committ.and by the way senators i vote.

Come on, those who think that a license should be required to exercise your Second Amendment rights, post a copy of your free speech license before you express your opinion.

pricedo · Feb 22, 2011

Laws are meaningless without enforcement by the cops & courts

A law abiding citizen has an invisible permit to carry even if a plastic permit is not required.

That invisible permit to carry is his/her clean record & responsible social behavior.

Convicted felons & other prohibited persons are liable to 10 years imprisonment for possession of a firearm.

I believe wholeheartedly in unlicensed carry but that has to be accompanied by real & meaningful enforcement by the criminal justice system.

Any felon or prohibited person caught with a firearm anywhere, anytime should be going away for a definite 10 years.

Any felon or prohibited person caught committing a crime while in possession of a firearm should be spending the rest of his natural life in jail.

No plea bargains, deals or lenience.

Grapeshot · Feb 22, 2011

KennyPro said:
I also think that if there were a person that was open carrying with bad intent- he may be prevented from doing crime by the sight of many others openly armed to protect themsleves. Most BG's are predators that do not like even odds...they like unarmed, helpless victims, witnesses, and bystanders. No one should have to scream for a cop in the face of violent crime. I do not think a license should be needed but perhaps a safety training course should be mandatory for open carry. I don't think too many criminals would sign up for a course....they like to hide in annonymity!

How much training and what kind (target, safety, tactical, IPSA) before someone is "permitted" to defend themselves? Suggest to the women just grabbed from behind by a mugger/rapist that she cannot use her gun until she has been trained.

All of the concerns and gloom 'n' doom aside, OC has worked very, very well in these states:
http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html

KennyPro · Feb 22, 2011

OC

I think EVERYONE should have some manner of gun safety training...just like hunter safety training courses...you are taking my comment out of context. Just my opinion....Just as we all should have a right to carry, we should also have a right to feel that others understand the laws and safe handling practices of firearms....people with training or understanding don't do stupid things like shoot themselves while cleaning their weapons!...Safety should allways be the first priority. Just like driving a car one needs to learn how to do that safely...

sccrref · Feb 22, 2011

KennyPro said:
I think EVERYONE should have some manner of gun safety training...just like hunter safety training courses...you are taking my comment out of context. Just my opinion....Just as we all should have a right to carry, we should also have a right to feel that others understand the laws and safe handling practices of firearms....people with training or understanding don't do stupid things like shoot themselves while cleaning their weapons!...Safety should allways be the first priority. Just like driving a car one needs to learn how to do that safely...

Is the the type of trained person you are talking about? http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZE3QAeYRk-A

rpyne · Feb 22, 2011

KennyPro said:
I think EVERYONE should have some manner of gun safety training...just like hunter safety training courses...you are taking my comment out of context. Just my opinion....Just as we all should have a right to carry, we should also have a right to feel that others understand the laws and safe handling practices of firearms....people with training or understanding don't do stupid things like shoot themselves while cleaning their weapons!...Safety should allways be the first priority. Just like driving a car one needs to learn how to do that safely...

Should everyone be trained in proper handling of a firearm? Absolutely. Should the government require that training before allowing anyone to exercise their Right to Keep and Bear Arms? Absolutely not.

As for "feeling" anything, that is a personal problem, not a right. The only way to "feel" safe in any situation is to take personal responsibility for your own safety. If you think that training will keep people from doing stupid things, you really need to be more observant of human nature. As an RSO, one of the most unsafe weapons handlers I have ever met was a police chief who had gone through semi-annual qualification training for more than 20 years.

The "driving a car" analogy is completely bogus. Driving a car is not a constitutionally guaranteed natural right.

Kingfish · Feb 22, 2011

KennyPro said:
we should also have a right to feel that others understand the laws and safe handling practices of firearms

There is and never has been a "right" to FEEL anything. Your feelings have no bearing on my RIGHTS!

KennyPro · Feb 22, 2011

OC

Rights stop at the end of ones fist and the beginning of the other guys nose....when YOUR RIGHTS affect my health and safety then they flow over into my rights! ...and thats a fact. Not a feeling.....

OCDO Press Release - Senator Greg Ever’s Open Carry Bill is Not Enough!

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