wellkevi01
New member
Thank you for the answers, this really helps clarify things.
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questions on open carry
- Thread starter pacman552SD
- Start date
stainless1911
Banned
I did EM, not sure yet, but maybe, thanks.
Onnie
Regular Member
I stand corrected, you are correct about that is only say vehicle but a bicycle is not defined as a vehicle under Michigan law
CHAPTER 257. MOTOR VEHICLES
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE
Act 300 of 1949
257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79. “Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a
mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of
1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977;¾Am. 1978, Act 568, Eff. Jan. 6, 1979;¾
Am. 1992, Act 134, Eff. Oct. 1, 1992.
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Bronson
Regular Member
While it is true that the MI Vehicle Code doesn't define a bicycle as a vehicle the problem is that MCL 750.227 doesn't define vehicle or reference another law's definition of vehicle. Without a definition within the law the court will look to other sources for a definition. Appellate court decisions, other laws, or the dictionary are all places they will look for a defintion. I agree that they would most likely take the defintion put forth in the MI vehicle code but there is always the chance that a prosecutor or judge could push a dictionary definition of vehicle.
Dictionary.com
Merriam-Webster
I think for the most part you'd be just fine OCing on a bicycle, but the law is ambiguous with undefined terms and that can always be dangerous.
Bronson
Michigander
Regular Member
That post about me thinking OC on a bicycle with no CPL is legal is exceptionally old, outdated and potentially very wrong, as has been mentioned.
My advise to anyone who is new to OCing and wants to do it is minimally to read the hell out of the stickied info threads. They are there for a reason.
You may also wish to purchase the book I wrote on this subject, available from here http://www.citizensleaguesd.com/
I am anything but a pushy salesmen, plus no one is pocketing money from this book other than the distributors since it's nothing more than a fundraiser for pro gun causes, and I certainly am not trying to brag, but it is the most complete and accurate source of information on open carrying in Michigan which is available. I made it for the advantage of new people mainly, so that they can avoid the sometimes costly mistakes us long time open carriers have made. It is a wise purchase. You can get away with reading the stickies and other info instead, but it will be much harder to get all of that information.
My advise to anyone who is new to OCing and wants to do it is minimally to read the hell out of the stickied info threads. They are there for a reason.
You may also wish to purchase the book I wrote on this subject, available from here http://www.citizensleaguesd.com/
I am anything but a pushy salesmen, plus no one is pocketing money from this book other than the distributors since it's nothing more than a fundraiser for pro gun causes, and I certainly am not trying to brag, but it is the most complete and accurate source of information on open carrying in Michigan which is available. I made it for the advantage of new people mainly, so that they can avoid the sometimes costly mistakes us long time open carriers have made. It is a wise purchase. You can get away with reading the stickies and other info instead, but it will be much harder to get all of that information.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
I agree with everything that Michigander said. As a person becomes more familiar with the laws regarding OC, one may feel more comfortable pushing the envelope in the so-called 'gray' areas of the law. For a person who is just starting out, I would strongly suggest that a strict adherence to settled law is the only way to carry. Also, if I were a new OCer, I would seriously consider purchasing the book that Michigander mentioned. It IS the best source for firearm law in Michigan.
stainless1911
Banned
If they can charge you with a DUI, then they can charge you with a CCW. Both charges are IMO crap.
MarineSgt
Regular Member
Sage advice from a wise and aged member of OCDO. :lol:
Onnie
Regular Member
I think for the most part you'd be just fine OCing on a bicycle, but the law is ambiguous with undefined terms and that can always be dangerous.
Bronson[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I disagree. Michigan Legislature has defined what a vehicle is and the courts, when using MCL 750.227 as a basis for a complaint are compelled to use the definition of a vehicle as set forth by the Legislature. Otherwise, they could define my grandson’s big wheel as a motor vehicle if they wanted to. Of course I am “assuming” that since 1949 the definition of a vehicle has not been changed from Chapter 257 definition. I would agree that they may use other definitions of what a vehicle is if the Legislature had not already defined what a vehicle under the law is. Would they use "Merriam-Webster", I think the more applicable definition source for a definition would come from Black's Law Dictionary which is the definitive legal resource.
I don't see MCL 750.227 use of the term “Vehicle” as ambiguous when applied to bicycles at all in reference to carrying a weapon in a vehicle when one applies Chapter 257’s definition of a vehicle. But I do see an avenue for some cop or over Zealous Prosecutor pushing the fact right to the edge to charge someone with violating MCL750.227 while riding their bike without a CPL.
stainless1911
Banned
I've talked to cops and lawyers who said they could.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
As did I while handgun hunting... and I was stopped by and spoke with a DNR officer who asked what I was doing...told him hunting. He then gave me a map of the rec area and wished me luck. However, I would not stake the legality of this on the fact that the DNR didn't cite me.
Haman J.T.
New member
Technicaly they can arrest,cite you for anything they want.They have that authority.Used correctly with RAS,PC or incorrectly(which you will pay for to begin with,lawyer fees etc..).Most people fear arrest-tickets and the hassle due to life long programing.
stainless1911
Banned
Wrong thread
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DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
No, my fear comes from personal experience. I USED to think that if one behaved to letter of the law, LEOS and judges would realize their error in citing me and I would be on my way. However, having experienced the 'judicial system' first hand, I now know that my former belief was wrong. Judicial interpretation counter to what you plainly read as the way the law is written is ALWAYS possible, and sometimes quite likely.