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Thread: Ofc. Birk resigns.

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Ofc. Birk resigns.

    Birk has resigned. About time he did something right!

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_birk17m.html

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    Wonder of Wonders, Miracle of Miracles.....

    Now, if the Fibbies will just files some charges... When you read the FRB report, I can't imagine a sane person not convicting him.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I still think these cops should face charges in these things.They are supposed to be protecting the public and it seems they sure get alot of free passes.When I lived in Vegas they had an incident where police killed a woman in her apt on a drug raid.Well turns out it was not only the wrong apt.It was the wrong apartment complex.Nothing was done.I think every cop involved right up to the one planning the raid should face murder charges.They are supposed to be at a higher standard.
    Nick and I last time we all went down town came across a homeless guy on the waterfront carving totems with a pocket knife.We desperately tried to find a cop to shoot him because apparently carving a stick with a pocket knife warrants the death penalty per SPD.Of late when I carry my defensive sidearm I wonder who I need to protect myself from.!!!!
    Last edited by DEROS72; 02-16-2011 at 10:03 PM.

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    When I read in this morning's Seattle Times that the prosecutor wasn't going to file charges, I was extremely disappointed and still am. He resigned because he knew he probably wouldn't have kept his job after the investigation that is going on now. I am happy he is no longer on the force, but he committed a crime that he should pay for. No one should get away with an unjustified shooting and not be charged criminally. I have lost all respect for SPD.
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    And people wonder why there are some of us who answer like Devildoc did...

    "I'm sorry, I don't speak to an LEO without my lawyer present"

    Heck, this guy *The woodcarver* didn't even get that chance.

    The Blue line should be labeled Black and Blue! I'm appalled! *Further comments posted elsewhere*

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    The Blue line should be labeled Black and Blue!
    More like a bull line, a thick line of bull !@$#.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    The thing here that should concern us all in particular is an officer could shoot you in the back and say you were going for your waist-band, and get away with it, even if there are witnesses testifying that you did nothing wrong, and were not acting aggressive in any way.

    This case solidifies the authority an LEO has to take your life for whatever reason without recourse.

    Let's say, hypothetically that Williams, presented with a deadly threat (which he was) responds to the perceived (matter of fact) threat, and stops Birk from causing grave bodily harm and/or death. Williams would be sitting in jail right now, on his way to prison for a very long time. My point is, as I have stated above, they can take your life from you, without cause, and you have the choice to stand there and let them take your life or fight back and if you live, plan on being incarcerated for a long time.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-16-2011 at 10:47 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Birk resigned so he can do a latteral transfer to another LE agency. If he was fired he would have a hard time finding a LE job. I dont think he finaly did the right thing.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Birk resigned so he can do a latteral transfer to another LE agency. If he was fired he would have a hard time finding a LE job. I dont think he finaly did the right thing.
    The SPD will continue with their process...Birk can be barred from being employed as an LEO in the State of Washington. He could move to another state and be hired on though. I am not sure who would hire him on...I hope that no PD would..you never know though, LA???


    Personally, I am pretty sure the SPD finding was coordinated with the city of Seattle and the prosecutor I am sure. Consider the SPD finding that it was an unjust shoot a "carrot" to the public, in hopes to calm people...I don't think that it will, I think that this move is probably even worse than them all coming out in favor of Birk. The reason, this type of BS is served to us all as if we would buy into it, or accept it...this type of thing insults our intelligence as a public IMO. If you watch the video of Diez when posted on the STimes, the papers he was holding were shaking pretty bad...and his facial expressions, I wonder if he is disgusted in Birk's actions, or in the fact that the SPD is havening to admit that one of their own did commit murder. I think it's likely the latter. All people, including LEO's are not without having bad apples in their ranks. The problem is, SPD has been caught on a number of occasions abusing citizens that are not breaking the law, or that have surrendered but received a beat down anyhow. The LEO-community need to get their crap together, across the nation...there is a rift that began forming years ago, but has widened the past few years, and this rift is dangerous for them, and dangerous for us as civilians.

    I want to believe that this could change, but I fear that there has been a line crossed the past few years. We are living in a police state in application, but not under the law, yet. I think that LEO's have went out of their way to distance themselves from the public. I remember when I was younger, officer would show up at the school and hand out sticker badges and talk to kids. These days officer stand guard int he hallways, and the only interaction that kids have with officers is authoritative...that type of relationship is not healthy IMO. But I think the boat is out to sea on this, and is not coming back.

    I read a number of gun magazines, and the way that LEO's are portrayed in many of the magazines is militaristic. In the photos you can not tell the difference between an LEO and a troop in Afghanistan. All of this militarization of our police forces across the nation is done under the "we live in a different world now" line of BS. When a country gets to the point where you can't tell the difference between someone in the military over seas and your local LEO, you are in big F-ing trouble IMO
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-16-2011 at 11:10 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Birk resigned so he can do a latteral transfer to another LE agency. If he was fired he would have a hard time finding a LE job. I dont think he finaly did the right thing.
    That is what I was thinking probably some mid size city in another state.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That is what I was thinking probably some mid size city in another state.
    Hopefully the residents of that city will make and wear T-shirts that say:

    Don't Birk Me, Bro!

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hopefully the residents of that city will make and wear T-shirts that say:

    Don't Birk Me, Bro!

    What Birk did was illegal, it was murder. But Birk is merely a symptom of a systemic problem in America IMO.

    I hate to go off on things like this but let;s think about all of this for a moment. In war, meaning overseas, when we are in a country and fighting the enemy, there are rules of engagement, but really, even if a civilian was killed for no reason, the military person who shot the civilian would likely not be charged with a crime, such as murder. Here, in the states, it is rare that an LEO is charged with murder, I mean, they really have to do something terrible to be charged, and something even more terrible to be convicted and be given some real time. We are not civilians, we are potential criminals, potential threats to ourselves and the people around us, at least, that is the perception of the LEO.

    I will give an example of something that disturbed me the other day when reading the Times. A woman in Lakewood walked out of her house with a gun, pointed it at officers, demanded they kill her, and they shoot her to death. Don't get me wrong, that situation is nothing like this one. What I am saying though is that when we go down the road where LEO's don't even consider other alternatives to stopping someone, we are heading into dangerous territory. I understand the safety of the LEO is important, but no more paramount than the safety of the public, or even the person that they are making contact with. Their job is dangerous, I get it, but there is only so much latitude they should be given before the people say STOP. I think we have far passed the point where we should have collectively yelled STOP.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-16-2011 at 11:21 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Not just in your opinion Sarah.

    The majority of people I meet and talk to on a day to day basis, without even knowing me, are getting tired. And many folks use a lot worse terms than I do about LEO and the ever increasing Bureaucracy of our government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Birk resigned so he can do a latteral transfer to another LE agency. If he was fired he would have a hard time finding a LE job. I dont think he finaly did the right thing.
    You won't find another department that will pick him up on a lateral. He is too much of a liability. The entire incident is well documented in his personnel file and will be viewed by any agency he attempts to transfer to.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    What Birk did was illegal, it was murder. But Birk is merely a symptom of a systemic problem in America IMO.

    I hate to go off on things like this but let;s think about all of this for a moment. In war, meaning overseas, when we are in a country and fighting the enemy, there are rules of engagement, but really, even if a civilian was killed for no reason, the military person who shot the civilian would likely not be charged with a crime, such as murder. Here, in the states, it is rare that an LEO is charged with murder, I mean, they really have to do something terrible to be charged, and something even more terrible to be convicted and be given some real time. We are not civilians, we are potential criminals, potential threats to ourselves and the people around us, at least, that is the perception of the LEO.

    I will give an example of something that disturbed me the other day when reading the Times. A woman in Lakewood walked out of her house with a gun, pointed it at officers, demanded they kill her, and they shoot her to death. Don't get me wrong, that situation is nothing like this one. What I am saying though is that when we go down the road where LEO's don't even consider other alternatives to stopping someone, we are heading into dangerous territory. I understand the safety of the LEO is important, but no more paramount than the safety of the public, or even the person that they are making contact with. Their job is dangerous, I get it, but there is only so much latitude they should be given before the people say STOP. I think we have far passed the point where we should have collectively yelled STOP.
    I agree with your assesmemt except for how dangerous a LEO job is they dont even make it into the top 20 for dangerous jobs. Roofers, truckdrivers, Ironworkers all have much more dangerous jobs.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEROS72 View Post
    I still think these cops should face charges in these things.They are supposed to be protecting the public and it seems they sure get alot of free passes.When I lived in Vegas they had an incident where police killed a woman in her apt on a drug raid.Well turns out it was not only the wrong apt.It was the wrong apartment complex.Nothing was done.I think every cop involved right up to the one planning the raid should face murder charges.They are supposed to be at a higher standard.
    Nick and I last time we all went down town came across a homeless guy on the waterfront carving totems with a pocket knife.We desperately tried to find a cop to shoot him because apparently carving a stick with a pocket knife warrants the death penalty per SPD.Of late when I carry my defensive sidearm I wonder who I need to protect myself from.!!!!
    In tribute to all the native woodcarvers....

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That is what I was thinking probably some mid size city in another state.
    He's a liability now, doubt he'll be hired anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    He's a liability now, doubt he'll be hired anywhere.
    Oh, my, no. There was an article approx. (two years?) ago that went into some detail about police who get disciplined or fired in one place finding an LEO job in another jurisdiction. The article focused on the east coast for its examples, if I recall, but I think its entirely possible for Birk to find a small town or small city position, unless an insurer objects or something.

    I'm pretty foggy on this, but it seems to hinge on whether the cop's LE license is revoked, say for a crime. If correct, it would mean that as long as a person has a license to be a cop, he's hire-able within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority (state I guess).
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-17-2011 at 12:48 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, my, no. There was an article approx. (two years?) ago that went into some detail about police who get disciplined or fired in one place finding an LEO job in another jurisdiction. The article focused on the east coast for its examples, if I recall, but I think its entirely possible for Birk to find a small town or small city position, unless an insurer objects or something.

    I'm pretty foggy on this, but it seems to hinge on whether the cop's LE license is revoked, say for a crime. If correct, it would mean that as long as a person has a license to be a cop, he's hire-able within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority (state I guess).
    Diaz said that if the Office of Professional Accountability (OPA) presents him with a recommendation for discipline it will be kept on file with the department and a copy will be sent to the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission.
    Depending on the department's findings, the move could prevent Birk from becoming a law enforcement officer anywhere in the state.
    Joe Hawe, executive director of the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission, said it will be up to the commission to review the case and conduct its own investigation.
    "Our responsibility under the law is to review any investigative issue for the decertification of police officers," Hawe said.
    If the commission determines that Birk should be decertified then "he would not be able to be a police officer in the state of Washington," Hawe said on Wednesday.
    STORY
    Live Free or Die!

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    Cross your fingers. Or, get busy writing letters.

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    The FRB reort is sent to the state Criminal justice head, Joe Hawe, and Birk will be decertified for the entire state of Wa. Any agency that would consider him would find this out in their background investigation. About the only place he could get a job as LEO would be in Chicago or New York. Both have serious corruption problems in their PD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    SNIP Both have serious corruption problems in their PD.
    Playful rhetorical question: You don't think a profession that tolerates rights-violator cops, as evidenced by the Blue Wall of Silence, doesn't have a corruption problem?

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    A big part of the current LEO, us vs them, attitude has to do with the hiring and selection process IMO. When you hire every LEO on the same standard test and look only for a narrow range of personality traits, you get a very homogeneous group. There needs to be a better diversified selection process to help keep things fresh and the problem solving fresh and innovative. This is, of course, secondary to the public collectively telling them to shove it and re-establishing the correct hierarchy. They work for you and they need to be reminded of that and what their actual job description is, not what they think or have be led to believe it is.

    Do not read this to be overly negative to the LEO community, as I'm sure it is full of fantastic people and officers. I know several LEO who are excellent people and am glad to say I know them.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    The FRB reort is sent to the state Criminal justice head, Joe Hawe, and Birk will be decertified for the entire state of Wa. Any agency that would consider him would find this out in their background investigation. About the only place he could get a job as LEO would be in Chicago or New York. Both have serious corruption problems in their PD.
    Could you imagine how big a gold mine this info would be to an Attorney if Birk was to "harm" anyone in his new PD?

    The fact that any agency would hire him with this record would almost guarantee a huge settlement or judgement against them should they be sued for his actions.

    I don't think even Chicago would take him unless he has an "Uncle" on the force. Ditto New York or LA with all the scrutiny they've been getting in recent years.

    I think his best chance is to find a convenience store or two and apply for work there. Or maybe an auto parts store in "Armpit Alabama". Someplace where they don't read the news much, assuming they can read.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Why this guy is walking around free, I'll never know.

    I guess it's good to be king. Or at least a member of the royal guard.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon

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