I OC around everyone and pretty much everywhere. Those close to me who didn't like it got used to it.
I have this issue. I am getting more comfortable OCing around people I don't know, but I absolutely don't want to do it around my mom, dad, uncles, and aunts for fear of being ridiculed and getting the cold shoulder. They understand a rifle or shotgun for hunting and maybe home defense (being farmers in a rural area and such), but handguns and concealed pistol license they don't understand.
Anyone else feel the same?
I'm not a lawyer, psychologist, or LEO. This means, don't rely on my opinion to work for you.
But I am a railroad conductor.
“Breathes their a man with a soul so dead, that does not thrill to the sound of a passing train?”
I OC around everyone and pretty much everywhere. Those close to me who didn't like it got used to it.
I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.
U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
"Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)
I don't OC around some of my family. It's kind of odd, because my dad was the one who convinced me to get my concealed pistol license when I turned 21, but finds it a bit odd that I carry all the time. He seems to be getting over it a bit, as he knows by now that I carry 99% of the time. Also odd because he has a CPL and has had one for many years. He rarely carries, unless he travels and he carries a 1911 in one of those day planner/holster things. He also doesn't carry with a round in the chamber which I find pretty dumb.
It seems like the more I carry around my family, OC or CC, the more they tend to be interested in guns and shooting. My brother is finally getting a pistol and wants to carry, because he finally realized, after 5+ years, that I had a gun and he never really noticed.
I don't carry LOADED inside my parents home. It was my fathers wishes, so I respect them. He doesn't mind the firearm itself, just that they have 3 crazy dogs and doesn't want any accidents.
At my parent’s house, you better treat all the guns as loaded
I OC all over the place. It depends on what I am doing around the house. I may just stick my 1911 in my waist band, my shirts are tucked. Now if I am on the road going places, I either carry my 1911 in military type web or my 1861 Type two Richards in Western Tiedown. Most of my friends are OK with OC. I don’t want a CC. If you don’t like my OC then to hell with you.
Pres. Florida Parishes Chapter of LOCAL www.laopencarry.org
.308 Isn't an area code, but it can still make long distance calls.
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my government (my wife) doesnt allow open carry in the house, but i never give up trying; during a recent blizzard, they declared a snow emergency. i pounced on that opportunity, and pointed out to my goverment, that a snow emergency would qualify as a reason for me to carry around the house. never to be under-estimated she came back with: no, the weight of the gun would pull you down, and you would disappear into a snow bank, and never be seen again.
with the inlaws i have made progress; 3 moderates, and for's, one leftist, and against. as the weather improves i will see how much priviledge i can gain when i go to visit at their house.
I thought about this very issue in regards to a stranger in my house carrying, such as a repairman whom I trust and it occurred to me that here's what I'd do.
I'd tell them 'I'm not going to make you put your gun in the car, but I am going to ask you to clear your HG before you come in, put the magazine in your pocket and show me that it's unloaded, safely. Then when you're back outside you can put your mag back in.'
IOW, I don't want a loaded, hot HG being carried in my house by a guy I don't -really- know, but I don't want to disarm them.
SO...I'd say, why not, for a trial period, OC unloaded around your family and when they are used to the gun and know you are being safe and are trained up, ask/tell them you are now going to carry your normal way. You will have laid groundwork to allay their fears, and you will show you are not trying to be pushy.
If I had a cousin, say, who wanted to OC in my house and he was a loudmouth jerk and pushy, even if I thought he was safety conscious, I'd have a problem with him OC in my house (or even in my presence). It would trigger my dominance urges. Now, if I was OC also, at the same time, then the playing field would be level and though he still might irritate me, he's not dominating me (theoretically). It lowers my anxiety, paradoxically even though now we have two loaded HGs in the house.
Most of my family live in and around Chicago. I can't carry AT ALL when I'm there.
Here in the United States, I carry concealed daily. I don't carry openly, but support the right of others to do so where lawful, as it is in Ohio.
Everywhere it is legal. Friends, Family as well.
The only "family" that's here in town decided after the 04JUL10 incident (I was wrongfully arrested) that they didn't want me to be armed around them, or my son, so I can't carry around them. Hypocrites - they have guns themselves, & all kinds of other weapons in the house (bow/arrow, knives, swords, axes).
My brother & his family live in CA, & if I ever visit I'd have to do some serious research as to which gun I could carry, then only unloaded, but I think they'd be OK with me carrying. I'd ask first, just to be sure.
My mom lives in a state covered by one of my priviledge permits, and I don't want to upset her, so I conceal when I visit. The only way she'll find out I carry is if I have to defend us... or if we don't get Constitutional Carry before she comes to visit this summer. Then I'd have to decide whether to break an unconstitutional law or have that Discussion with Mom.
Other family? Well, one cousin knows I carry & is really cool with it. He used to live in Alaska, & carrys a .45 himself. His dad taught me to shoot a little .22 rifle when I was young, so he'd probably be OK with it (though he's on the city council for Topeka, KS, & IIRC they passed a bill banning OC in the city). The other uncle/aunt, not so sure about.
Last edited by MKEgal; 02-18-2011 at 12:13 PM.
Originally Posted by MLK, JrOriginally Posted by MSG LaigaieOriginally Posted by Proverbs 27:12Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
This is the joy of having no family - I get to carry any way I want any time I want anywhere I want.
I've gotten the cold shoulder, disparaging comments, nasty looks, ignorant comments, and the like. Some were worth the bother of responding to by trying to educate/inform, and others were not. Picking battles is an art - at least when you are allowed to participate in the process of deciding whether or not to engage.
Some times it comes down to asking one's self if they really are willing to let others control their behavior out of fear of. Yes, sometimes other family members hold signifigant power over you (visitation rights, for example) that makes it necessary to give up one thing for something even more important.being ridiculed and getting the cold shoulder
But if it was just a matter of fearing being made fun of, I'd probably say "Bring it on" and show them I have more backbone than they thought. I'd also take the time to try to explain to them why I OC (or carry at all). If they do not understand, then at least I know where I stand with them, and where they want to stand with me.
The same goes for others OCing around me - including in my home. If I have reason to distrust you having a firearm near me, then I have a fear of you being around me at all. However, if you behave inappropriately I will deal with that by asking you to disarm and remove both the firearm and yourself. Some repair guy who has an OC'd firearm better be busier fixing whatever is busted than doing anything else that makes me concerned about needing to disarm him during some "trial period".
I OC in public when I'm alone. My wife doesn't like me to carry OC or CC even though she signed me for the CC course. I think whoever she is getting more comfortable with it. We walk the dogs every night and I'm typically CC but OC when I get home and usually the home time we are cooking dinner. Mom refuses to interact with me if I'm "packing", so if in public with any family it's pretty much CC.
It's nice to have a wife who asks me "does what I'm wearing look ok with this holster?"
In Louisiana you can't legally concealed carry, with a permit, on one's private property/in their home without their express permission and I asked ALL of my kin if they minded and was given the OK. These days I am open carrying and don't ask but don't get asked to un-arm so it is a non-issue for me. My friends/kin have known I was a "gun nut" for years and have come to expect me to be armed wherever I may be. Not a bad thing at all IMO.
I honestly couldn't care less what my family thinks about guns. Give the opportunity(it is currently illegal in Texas) I would OC everywhere, with few exceptions.
For instance, if I was visiting my aunt's house, I would CC as OC would make her uncomfortable.
The only person that would have any real say is my girlfriend. While she doesn't like guns and they make her uncomfortable, she does understand how I feel on the subject and is not trying to change that. I think that after a while she will come around, but in the meantime I am quite sure that we can find an acceptable compromise.
Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W
At my own home, I OC. End of discussion. No matter who's present. If folks-family or otherwise, have an issue with it-they are certainly free to make for the nearest exit or get over it.
So far,not an issue, because most family are aware of my situation, and the on-going, armed threat to my area. My parents-not that they visit often-are Bleeding Heart commies, and decidedly anti-gun- even with full-knowledge of my own incident. Not much can be done to convince/sway them from their brain-washing. But-again-at home OC. At their place-if only to keep some peace n quiet and sanity- I CC, and they are never aware I even have a pistol on me.
You should treat a handyman packing in your home the same way that you would deal with any individual carrying on the street. You evaluate him. You maintain your awareness. If and when his behavior gives you pause, you put distance between you and him. You remain prepared to act.
Before you let him in the door, you do a quick assessment of his stability and decency. Talk to him for a few minutes. Make carry a part of the discussion. If his behavior gives you pause, ask him to leave. As with any handyman, while he is working, you keep an eye on him. Even an unarmed handyman could easily rob you of life, Liberty, or property. Make sure that you are armed every second he is there.
It is your right to deny him access to your home. However, if you do so merely because he is carrying, that makes you no better than the folks who don't allow carry in their stores. Demanding the right to carry where you will, but then denying that right to others in your home, is a bit NIMBYish.
Yes we care more about people we know/love's criticism than a stranger.
When I started Carrying I concealed before learning the laws and comfort of OC. For a while early on I would OC to the store and around town but conceal around family. The old law in VA that required OC in restaurants before Jul 1, 2010 actually helped me come out of the CC-closet and OC more and more.
I am divorced and my ex used to ridicule me everytime she saw me OC-ing. My only worry was that any custody battle would include comments on my guns. Since OC in VA is perfectly legal though I doubt any argument would hold water. I would say after about 2-3 months I started OC-ing around all family. That is when the real fun started when you learn who is ignorant, hard-headed and simply ANTI. My ex mother-in-law is surreally-ANTI and lives in a fantasy world where guns are evil and the world will become a paradise when the last gun is destroyed. I have went back and forth with her arguing to the point of her tears and nearly getting kicked out of her house. So I CC at her house for family peace. If she comes to my house I OC though. :-)
Remember why you OC and that reason (usually self defense) will outweigh any ridicule or comments from the peanut gallery.
As far as repairmen, I have no problem with someone OC-ing on my property or in my house. Most companies don't allow their employees to do so though. Their gun has to remain in a holster the whole time or mine will come out of its holster.
Let's face it - repairmen, contractors and others in business for themselves are insured and bonded for a reason. They have access to our private lives and possessions. I trust them but only to a degree.
I do not want disparity of force in my own house, where I have nowhere to which to retreat. I might add I get around using a cane, so I'm already a step behind.
I do not think that asking someone to unload their magazine and chamber in my house while they go about climbing ladders and crawling on the bathroom floor is over the top. In a restaurant, I can leave - at home, not so much, lol.
Again, I'm not telling the guy to leave his gun in the car, I'm just adding a layer of time/safety for myself. I try not to leave anything to chance where SD is concerned. Yes, I will also assess his behavior and if it seems squirrelly I will exercise my option to ask him to leave.
PS - eye said 'If and when his behavior gives you pause, you put distance between you and him. You remain prepared to act." Exactly. However, how do you put distance between someone in your own house and how do you remain prepared to act? I'm creating distance and time by asking him to unload. Note that this is also a test. If he argues with me, I'm picking someone else. After time goes by and I know him I might alter my requirements.
Last edited by Badger Johnson; 02-20-2011 at 09:18 AM.
Last edited by zack991; 02-20-2011 at 09:39 AM.
-I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
-Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
Marine General James Mattis,
The proper analogy is the restaurant owner (not a customer) to the home owner. The restaurant owner has no more or less ability to leave his business than the homeowner has to leave his home. Should the restaurant owner deny carry to his patrons if he uses a cane? He has that right, but I'd say he shouldn't.
My point is that if you expect others to permit you to carry onto their premises, you should be tolerant of those who would carry onto yours.
I have made this point before very recently, but it bears repeating: To best defend our rights we should primarily focus on defending the rights of others, not vice versa.
I have had armed contractors doing work in my home, though. But was not overly concerned at the time. I had my piece on my person in the remote chance it became an issue of any kind, and was comfy enough with that. Otherwise, I welcomed the additional firepower being around, lest my actual threat present itself.
In my HOME it's completely different and I am not about to give anyone ONE IOTA of privilege that they don't require to do their job. I'm not making a philosophical statement, I'm weighting the odds in MY FAVOR. There is no reason for a vendor/contractor to OC loaded in my house where I can not retreat and I can't watch him all the time, or have backup employees to assist me.
If it's philosophically unbalanced or hypocritical, I'm good with that.
Justify it how you will, the stance is hypocritical. It disappoints that one could be good with that. Oh, well, I've made the point and will discuss something else.