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Thread: ABC Store Open Carry ??

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    ABC Store Open Carry ??

    Dose anyone know if there is any law prohibiting OPEN CARRY in the ABC stores in VA. I have concealed carried a bunch of times. I would like some clairification on this.


    Thanks John


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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Nope carry on. It's a state agency so the individual stores can't make their own anti policies as agency itself hasn't prohibited carry. I've OC'ed multiple times at several different ABC stores.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vt357 View Post
    Nope carry on. It's a state agency so the individual stores can't make their own anti policies as agency itself hasn't prohibited carry. I've OC'ed multiple times at several different ABC stores.
    I'd be careful here with such a blanket statement.

    Don't forget, state agencies are not preempted, they can make their own policies. I don't know any reason why they couldn't make a policy allowing individual stores to decide for themselves.

    If you see a sign or are told to not carry, I would not flaunt it without careful research.

    TFred

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Never had a problem with the ones I have patronized in my area.
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    Thanks for the replies. I just needed to be sure. I have been asked by a few others also so I will pass on the info




    Thanks John


    " MY NATIONALITY HAS NO PREFIX "

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    Quote Originally Posted by ckwing13 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I just needed to be sure. I have been asked by a few others also so I will pass on the info




    Thanks John


    " MY NATIONALITY HAS NO PREFIX "
    18.2-308 outlines the places that are illegal. (google18.2-308) Check the VAC as well. I have OC'ed in plenty of ABC stores not a word was said.
    Last edited by All American Nightmare; 02-18-2011 at 01:19 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vt357 View Post
    Nope carry on. It's a state agency so the individual stores can't make their own anti policies as agency itself hasn't prohibited carry. I've OC'ed multiple times at several different ABC stores.
    Local governmental agencies are preempted, NOT state agencies.


    § 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I'd be careful here with such a blanket statement.

    Don't forget, state agencies are not preempted, they can make their own policies. I don't know any reason why they couldn't make a policy allowing individual stores to decide for themselves.

    If you see a sign or are told to not carry, I would not flaunt it without careful research.

    TFred
    True enough. I should clarify. While there is nothing in preemption stopping the ABC board from creating a policy prohibiting carry in their stores (since they are an agency, not a locality), as far as we know they have not made such a policy.

    Does the ABC board function like other state agencies? If they wanted to create such a policy would it need to go through the public comment period before being enacted? (Giving us time to be aware and fight it).

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vt357 View Post
    True enough. I should clarify. While there is nothing in preemption stopping the ABC board from creating a policy prohibiting carry in their stores (since they are an agency, not a locality), as far as we know they have not made such a policy.

    Does the ABC board function like other state agencies? If they wanted to create such a policy would it need to go through the public comment period before being enacted? (Giving us time to be aware and fight it).
    Without looking it up, I do not know - but it is not an issue because the ABC Board has not taken an anti stance. Somewhere on this forum is a letter referencing this in reply to a situation where someone OCing was told by an employee that doing so was not permitted. I do remember that it was a favorable reply.

    Has anyone thought about the possible privatization of liquor stores? It would then be up to the individual ownership entity to set their own policies regarding carrying - at least that is what I would expect.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Has anyone thought about the possible privatization of liquor stores? It would then be up to the individual ownership entity to set their own policies regarding carrying - at least that is what I would expect.
    From what I understand yes, the stores would function as any other private business, able to set their own polices. I don't even think that the current locations of the ABC stores would stay the same as anyone could purchase license. Sam's Club and Costco are some of the biggest retailers of liquor in other states.

    Didn't that proposal die in the GA?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vt357 View Post
    From what I understand yes, the stores would function as any other private business, able to set their own polices. I don't even think that the current locations of the ABC stores would stay the same as anyone could purchase license. Sam's Club and Costco are some of the biggest retailers of liquor in other states.

    Didn't that proposal die in the GA?
    Yes, it's dead for this year, but I expect it will be back.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yes, it's dead for this year, but I expect it will be back.
    The Commonwealth makes alot of money from the ABC stores. Dont think it will ever pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Local governmental agencies are preempted, NOT state agencies.


    § 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
    Hopefully this will be fixed next year.

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    Campaign Veteran joeamt's Avatar
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    Thumbs up O/C in ABC

    I have OC'd many times in my local Dumfries ABC store (not that I'm A lush or anything! ) and the employess are, and have always been very nice and cordial to me... even commenting on the style of gun I was carrying at the time...

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    One other thing to consider is that many ABC stores are located in strip malls and the strip mall itself might be anti-gun. I believe that something to that effect has been posted before on this board.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    One other thing to consider is that many ABC stores are located in strip malls and the strip mall itself might be anti-gun. I believe that something to that effect has been posted before on this board.
    Malls and strip centers are physically very different. In both the tenant controls their space with only common areas being under the direct control of the owner/manager of the center. Even with malls, I have never seen "no guns " signs in parking lots or on sidewalks.

    Have you ever seen a strip shopping center posted? I have not, not once.
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    i have OC'd to Peninsula town Center many times with no issues. Even walked right passed security guards and LEOs. If there were rules against OC, they didnt make it known. I have also seen no signs posted and i have looked.

    In a way, i wish Virginia was more like Texas in the sense that no gun signs have to be posted in certain places and have certain things displayed for it to be lawful.

    i find that the mall signs hidden and with small print to be very deceiving.
    Last edited by And2TheRepublic; 02-22-2011 at 04:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Malls and strip centers are physically very different. In both the tenant controls their space with only common areas being under the direct control of the owner/manager of the center. Even with malls, I have never seen "no guns " signs in parking lots or on sidewalks.

    Have you ever seen a strip shopping center posted? I have not, not once.
    Then you need to come and take some of my classes, Grape!

    The Shops at White Oak Village on S. Laburnham Ave has a Code of Conduct posted on the outside walls between stores, along the sidewalk. Rule #10 says "Possession of firearms, knives or any other weapon is prohibited on property, even if legally carried, except by law enforcement officers”
    Last edited by ProShooter; 02-22-2011 at 02:36 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Then you need to come and take some of my classes, Grape!

    The Shops at White Oak Village on S. Laburnham Ave has a Code of Conduct posted on the outside walls between stores, along the sidewalk. Rule #10 says "Possession of firearms, knives or any other weapon is prohibited on property, even if legally carried, except by law enforcement officers”
    Aaah, the exception to the rule - interesting.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member FretlessMayhem's Avatar
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    Janaf

    I know that in 2006 I noticed that the strip mall in Janaf was posted for no firearms. At the time I took a picture and emailed it to Mr. Van Cleave, but I don't think anything ever came of it.

    I try to stay away from Janaf and the Military Circle area entirely, so I'm unsure if it's still posted.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Military Circle

    The last time I went to Military Circle was out of pure, morbid curiousity (my children wanted to see where I used to "hang out" as a child) and the fact my daughter had to go to THAT JC Penny to get a pair of boots.

    I was deeply saddened to recognize only a couple places. The Sheraton entrance where WGH radio used to broadcast. I CC'd of course. Even with a couple spare mags and carrying the BUG, I still felt outnumbered and outgunned. Wasn't a nice feeling. Didn't stay very long.
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    My wife & I used to go to that mall all the time. I even worked there when there was a Waldenbooks in there.

    It has steadily gone down hill over the years. The last time I was in there was about 9 months ago or so. Feeling outnumbered and outgunned was the least of my concerns. I felt like I was a foreigner in a 3rd world country where all the natives were just itching for a reason to get me. The place honestly gives me the vibe that violence is just barely restrained.

    Not the old friendly, welcoming presence the place used to have when I was working there in the late '90s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by And2TheRepublic View Post
    i have OC'd to Peninsula town Center many times with no issues. Even walked right passed security guards and LEOs. If there were rules against OC, they didnt make it known. I have also seen no signs posted and i have looked.

    In a way, i wish Virginia was more like Texas in the sense that no gun signs have to be posted in certain places and have certain things displayed for it to be lawful.

    i find that the mall signs hidden and with small print to be very deceiving.
    PTC has a 'no weapons' policy...
    http://www.peninsulatowncenter.com/I...Standards.aspx

    Although I seem to recall reading that they weren't supposed too... because it is partially owned by the city (don't recall exact details).
    Last edited by Blk97F150; 02-23-2011 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Corrected Link (I hope... lol)

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    PTC has a 'no weapons' policy...
    http://www.peninsulatowncenter.com/Information/GuestInformation/CommunityStandards.aspx

    Although I seem to recall reading that they weren't supposed too... because it is partially owned by the city (don't recall exact details).
    Yeah they did but it was "taken care of" with the help of OCDO members last year.

    @AndToTheRepublic:
    Yeah the only requirement now is that signs are posted where they may be reasonably seen. I'd be hesitant to change the current state of affairs because violating it is a misdemeanor trespassing charge as opposed to a firearms offense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Yeah they did but it was "taken care of" with the help of OCDO members last year.

    @AndToTheRepublic:
    Yeah the only requirement now is that signs are posted where they may be reasonably seen. I'd be hesitant to change the current state of affairs because violating it is a misdemeanor trespassing charge as opposed to a firearms offense.
    Well... if it was 'taken care of', thats good news... but PTC hasn't updated their website. According to the link I posted earlier, weapons are still prohibited.

    Edit: The link doesn't seem to work.... go to www.peninsulatowncenter.com on the left sidebar click 'Guest Information' link, go to the bottom of that page and click 'Community Standards. link
    Last edited by Blk97F150; 02-23-2011 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Additional info

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