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Thread: Woman shot to death at Woodbridge Chick-Fil-A

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    Woman shot to death at Woodbridge Chick-Fil-A

    Last edited by nova; 06-04-2012 at 04:27 AM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This was a terrible thing. One of my Facebook friends was a direct witness to this, said he was paralyzed with fear and felt helpless to watch the scene unfold.

    But as you note, sometimes these things happen so fast, there is nothing you can do.

    TFred

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Even if he was armed, he most likely couldn't have done anything to stop it...real shame.
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    Sad!

    ...sadly, it was a Domestic dispute...separation...divorce trial pending...father threatens mother...knows where she goes each morning...had also threatened the kids...father has no self control...and some "anger management" issues...

    There were kids involved...their 12 year old was in my Granddaugher's 6th Grade class at St Thomas Aquinas Regional School...it is a sad day!

    Prayers are needed from everyone...for all those affected...!

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    I'm just curious, did she have a protective order against the guy?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    I'm just curious, did she have a protective order against the guy?
    If she did, it wasn't worth as much as the piece of paper on which it was written.

    Quite a legacy he left his children - damn shame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If she did, it wasn't worth as much as the piece of paper on which it was written.

    Quite a legacy he left his children - damn shame.
    I know they are worthless. I have a protective order against someone and I'm almost certain that they still have a firearm.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Question

    Not to disparage your situation in any way, but why does your protective order preclude someone else's right to self defense?

    Aside from the "law", which we know has zero effect in such matters.
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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Unfortunately protective orders serve little purpose when someone is determined to do harm. If the offender does violate it, at least they will be arrested, but if the offender wants to kill, a piece of paper isn't going to stop him. If anything, it only serves to anger and infuriate him further. When seconds count, police are minutes away from only being able to do tons of paperwork on what's already happened.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    I know they are worthless. I have a protective order against someone and I'm almost certain that they still have a firearm.
    The way I read 18.2-308.1:4 its not illegal to have the gun, just to purchase or transport it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    The way I read 18.2-308.1:4 its not illegal to have the gun, just to purchase or transport it.

    http://www.oag.state.va.us/KEY_ISSUE...rotectOrdr.pdf

    In addition, federal law prohibits you from
    possessing any firearm or ammunition while
    you are subject to a qualifying protective or-
    der. Local offices of the Bureau of Alcohol,
    Tobacco and Firearms can be contacted to
    determine whether you can lawfully possess
    a firearm. A violation of this federal law is punishable by up to ten years in prison. 18
    U.S.C. 922(g)(8).

    In response to wylde007 - I didn't say that he shouldn't be able to have a firearm. I was just saying that the paper is worthless because he has one anyways (but he has no business owning a firearm anyways).
    Last edited by hunter45; 02-17-2011 at 10:44 PM.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    http://www.oag.state.va.us/KEY_ISSUE...rotectOrdr.pdf

    In addition, federal law prohibits you from
    possessing any firearm or ammunition while
    you are subject to a qualifying protective or-
    der. Local offices of the Bureau of Alcohol,
    Tobacco and Firearms can be contacted to
    determine whether you can lawfully possess
    a firearm. A violation of this federal law is
    punishable by up to ten years in prison. 18
    U.S.C. 922(g)(8).
    Interesting, the Feds got their 2 cents in. I wonder what a "qualifying protective order" is. Also it would be interesting to see how that would work as far as charges are concerned since its not a violation of VA law. I guess the BAFTE would have to take out charges and it would he heard in Federal court. I don't like that at all, because it should be a state issue.

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    Protective orders are useless, I've never yet heard of one stopping someone determined to kill somebody. Most of the time when they are violated someone is killed, not just harmed. Who cares if it affects his sentence or not; the kids have no mother, and he will most likely get life. It was obviously cold, premeditated murder. Everybody lost. Really sad.
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    Protective Orders...?

    Protective Orders? Those are for people who have experienced no self control anyway.

    On the way home from school, my granddaughter and I talked about the incident; they had put her school on "lockdown" as they did the other schools in the area until they found out the situation was "clear".

    We talked about 1st Degree (Pre-Meditated) Murder as well as regular homicide; about how it is almost impossible to guard against a surprise attack; about why I carry a gun; about why some people "fly off the handle"; etc.

    The class was wondering why the Police had come and taken their classmate out of class (I mentioned earlier that one of their children was in my Granddaugher's 6th Grade Class) until they were all called down to the cafeteria, where they found out what had happened. They all felt saddness as now their classmate was now without a mother and the father would not be home for a LONG time.

    My wife attends daily Mass at Our Lady of Angels, where my Granddaughter's school is located, and after Mass she was passing by the incident on her way to work. Knowing that I was at Physical Therapy and would be heading for breakfast afterwards, she called to tell me to stay away from Chick-fil-A.

    Ironically, I was up the road at McDonalds talking to someone who had moved into Virginia from out of State and had asked me about being able to carry open, how he could get a concealed permit, why I carried, etc, etc. (He had noticed the handgun on my hip.) This MUST have been exactly the same time the Chick-fil-A incident was happening.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugerdon View Post
    The class was wondering why the Police had come and taken their classmate out of class...
    Oh, man did they really do that? How terrible. I can't imagine anything more frightening to a middle schooler than to have a police officer come get you out of class. I would think they'd get a guidance counselor, or considering the school, a nun? Wow.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Protective orders are useless, I've never yet heard of one stopping someone determined to kill somebody. Most of the time when they are violated someone is killed, not just harmed. Who cares if it affects his sentence or not; the kids have no mother, and he will most likely get life. It was obviously cold, premeditated murder. Everybody lost. Really sad.
    Protective Orders fall into the same category of illogic as Gun Control laws in general... The best, most succinct quote I've seen on the matter is:

    Gun Control: A theory espoused by some monumentally stupid people who claim to believe, against all logic and common sense, that a violent predator who ignores the laws prohibiting them from robbing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and killing their fellow human beings will obey a law telling them that they cannot own a gun. -- Oldnoob
    Virtually interchangeable.

    Protective Order: A concept invented by some monumentally stupid people who claim to believe, against all logic and common sense, that a violent predator intent on ignoring the laws prohibiting them from beating, raping, kidnapping, torturing and/or killing their domestic partner or family member, will obey a piece of paper telling them to stay more than 50 feet away from their victim at all times. -- Modified with credit to Oldnoob

    TFred

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    I Think You Are Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Oh, man did they really do that? How terrible. I can't imagine anything more frightening to a middle schooler than to have a police officer come get you out of class. I would think they'd get a guidance counselor, or considering the school, a nun? Wow.

    TFred
    My Graddaughter told me that "they" had taken the girl and mentioned Police at the same time. The kids were under "lockdown" (doors locked...no one comes in or out...even to go to the bathroom) and then someone came down to the classroom and removed the child. It was probably the Principal, a Nun, accompanied by an armed PWC Detective (remember the man had threatened to kill the children - or so I've heard from a reliable source). My Granddaughter told me that they were all wondering why "they" came to get the girl.

    Once the lockdown was lifted the kids were taken to the cafeteria, told of the incident and who was involved. There were several Priests present, according to my Granddaughter.

    Perhaps the kids reasoned that the Police must have come to get the child; which in reality, they did.

    I only found out about the incident involving an Aquinas child when I had come to pick up my Granddaughter after school. Unlike ordinary days when I just wait in my car, she had an after school play rehearsal so I had to go into the building. It was then when another parent told me.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Restraining orders are made of the same stuff as the targets I use at the range. Bullets go right through them, too. Maybe they need to print them on Kevlar?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng View Post
    Interesting, the Feds got their 2 cents in. I wonder what a "qualifying protective order" is. Also it would be interesting to see how that would work as far as charges are concerned since its not a violation of VA law. I guess the BAFTE would have to take out charges and it would he heard in Federal court. I don't like that at all, because it should be a state issue.
    The firearm prohibition comes in under the Lautenberg Amendment. A qualifying protective order would be an Emergency (72 hours), a Preliminary (up to 14 days), or a Permanant (up to 2 years) one.

    The violation of Va law is under 16.1-253.2, a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    § 16.1-253.2. Violation of provisions of protective orders; penalty.

    In addition to any other penalty provided by law, any person who violates any provision of a protective order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-279.1 or subsection B of § 20-103, which prohibits such person from going or remaining upon land, buildings or premises or from further acts of family abuse, or which prohibits contacts between the respondent and the respondent's family or household member as the court deems appropriate is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. The punishment for any person convicted of a second offense of violating a protective order, when the offense is committed within five years of the prior conviction and when either the instant or prior offense was based on an act or threat of violence, shall include a mandatory minimum term of confinement of 60 days. Any person convicted of a third or subsequent offense of violating a protective order, when the offense is committed within 20 years of the first conviction and when either the instant or one of the prior offenses was based on an act or threat of violence is guilty of a Class 6 felony and the punishment shall include a mandatory minimum term of confinement of six months.

    If the respondent commits an assault and battery upon any party protected by the protective order, resulting in serious bodily injury to the party, he is guilty of a Class 6 felony. Any person who violates such a protective order by furtively entering the home of any protected party while the party is present, or by entering and remaining in the home of the protected party until the party arrives, is guilty of a Class 6 felony, in addition to any other penalty provided by law.

    Upon conviction of any offense hereunder for which a mandatory minimum term of confinement is not specified, the person shall be sentenced to a term of confinement and in no case shall the entire term imposed be suspended. Upon conviction, the court shall, in addition to the sentence imposed, enter a protective order pursuant to § 16.1-279.1 for a specified period not exceeding two years from the date of conviction.

    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Restraining orders are made of the same stuff as the targets I use at the range. Bullets go right through them, too. Maybe they need to print them on Kevlar?
    FYI - Restraining orders and Protective orders are actually 2 different things - but they are printed on the same kind of paper
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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