Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: ex-wife seeking sole custody becaise I open carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    2

    ex-wife seeking sole custody becaise I open carry

    My ex-wife is seeking sole custody of our 3 year old son because I open carry in my home in Sacramento CA. We had a custody mediation and the mediator said that although I am lawfully allowed to do so, he believes that I am wrong for carrying at home around my child and he is recommending to the court that I keep my gun locked up at all times. I even handed him a copy of PC 12025 and 12026 which he just wrote off. When my son is not at my home I keep my gun on the nightstand while I am in bed. Is that legal? Also, I was Army Infantry from 2005-2009 with a tour in Iraq in 2007 (honorable discharge). I have been diagnosed with PTSD because I have nightmares. The mediator is using this against me saying that my PTSD is the reason that I carry a gun and that I need counseling. I can't afford an attorney. Does anyone know of a way to get an attorney pro bono or cheap? Am I in accordance with the law? Will the judge agree with me or rule based on opinion? I need help so any info would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    No one here is going to give you legal advice - might point you in the right direction though.

    Most attorney's (here at least) will give you an initial consultation without charge. Never heard of an attorney doing a divorce/custody case pro bono and since it is a civil case not a criminal one, the state will not provide you with an attorney.

    The unfortunate part of all of this is that you are in California where to many people "guns" is indeed a 4 letter word.

    Wish you the best - it ain't fun.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-18-2011 at 05:46 PM. Reason: fix it
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    974
    Might try calguns.net, they might have a lawyer on there or know of some.
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  4. #4
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    Hate to say it but, you are in Kalifornicate. You're probably screwed. Wish you luck though.
    Last edited by rodbender; 02-18-2011 at 07:59 PM.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Did you open carry, before the split? Was that an issue with the wife then? If not it isn't going to hold water in court in my opinion.

    My ex tried to bring up the gun issue and it was tossed out very quickly by the judge even though my lawyer (she did me no good) was actually on their side about the gun issue.

    Your case is unique like every case, and I concur with the others get a lawyer if you can.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , Oregon, USA
    Posts
    269
    Your local Legal Aid office might be able to help too, although if it's anything like the one here they'll probably only give advice. They should be able to direct you to any other resources in the area though.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448
    You have a hard decision to make. Gun or kid. Perhaps a quick access safe...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  8. #8
    McX
    Guest
    this is offensive! A soldier, who served his country! A citizen who abides the law! In Cal. no less, where you cant even have a damn mag. in the gun, and the state itself seeks to strip him of his rights as a parent. I could just puke.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    (this is not legal 'advice')

    What kind of neighborhood do you live in? Maybe you can get police reports of all the local robberies, home invasions, assaults, etc.... and use that info as your 'defense' to carrying at home? 'I only carry to protect myself and my family your honor...'.

    Good luck with it. Hope that is goes well for you. Divorce with kids is no fun. Been there, done that.

  10. #10
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803
    Here are wishes for the best outcome.

    I am in VA and went through a divorce and started OC-ing after the divorce & custody issues were settled. I still worried that my ex could at any time use any mistep by me to further a custody battle.

    In VA (which is a very pro-2A state in many regards) I simply had to stay within the law to feel confident. BUT even in Virginia many divorce/custody arrangements are very much dependent on the judge that hears your case. For that reason I filed for divorce in the county my ex had moved to rather than the one I lived in. The judge here was known to be very pro-MOTHER and very anti-FATHER regardless of the facts.

    So with all that said, alot will be determined on the judge. OC-ing is legal just like driving a car. As long as you follow the law in a car by using child seats, seat belts, your ex shouldn't be able to use it against you but kalifornication judges have been known to follow their own gods rather than the law.

    God bless and a few prayers won't hurt.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    2

    thanx

    Thanx a lot for all the advice. I think I'll just keep it locked up for now.

  12. #12
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803
    Quote Originally Posted by ronswat_21 View Post
    Thanx a lot for all the advice. I think I'll just keep it locked up for now.
    There are the quick access small gun safes for a pistol or two for $100-$300 and Walmart used to sell a gun locker for about $100 that can hold a few long guns and several pistols. A gun locker won't stop a determined criminal from breaking into it but should be sufficient for children. It is definitely cheaper than a gun safe.

    If you lock your gun up when it is not on your hip I would think that it should be good enough to alay any fears or safety concerns. Then again common sense doesn't seem to be too commong these days. :-(

    Good luck.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897
    Sue for an abrogation of your rights. Ask DHR's represenative for his personal view on guns, on record, then charge them with a bias or non-neutral viewpoint. Ask him, on record, if he is an expert in firearms ownership or safety. Does he have any professional qualifications that make him an authority on the safe ownership, operation, transportation, etc. of firearms? Bring or call a witness of a police officer. Ask that police officer what risk a three year old presents in terms of grabbing a pistol in a holster and removing it without the wearer's realization.

    If DHR doesn't have any authority on firearms who has a neutral, non-pecuniary interest in the matter, then there is a miscarriage of justice.
    Last edited by Kirbinator; 02-20-2011 at 04:07 PM.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    Sue for an abrogation of your rights. Ask DHR's represenative for his personal view on guns, on record, then charge them with a bias or non-neutral viewpoint. Ask him, on record, if he is an expert in firearms ownership or safety. Does he have any professional qualifications that make him an authority on the safe ownership, operation, transportation, etc. of firearms? Bring or call a witness of a police officer. Ask that police officer what risk a three year old presents in terms of grabbing a pistol in a holster and removing it without the wearer's realization.

    If DHR doesn't have any authority on firearms who has a neutral, non-pecuniary interest in the matter, then there is a miscarriage of justice.
    IMO - one should never ask a LEO for such an opinion AND never ask for a response in court that of which you do not already know the answer. Expert witnesses are seldom free and in this situation the OP has indicated a lack of deep pockets, unfortunately.

    That and judges have been known to legislate and/or penalize the honest citizen from the bench.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    I'm going to second the recommendation that you contact the folks over at CalGuns for guidance on understanding the Calif safe storage laws.

    Have you contacted either the VFW or American Legion for assistance in finding an attorney? While they do not normally deal with child custody matters (except for active duty deployed service members) there are several factors regarding your personal situation that might work to your favor in getting some assistance through their efforts.

    There are also several national organizations dealing with fathers' custodial rights. Do a Google search and follow up on what you find.

    Do not publically answer these questions, but take them as a HINT: What, if anything, are you doing to deal with your PTSD issues? Will someone who is working with you appear in court on your behalf?

    stay safe.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    "Sole custody" is almost always the starting point on both sides in a custody dispute. If you want to hold your 2A rights up higher than your custody or visitation rights as a father, that's entirely up to you. Regardless, that's the way the mediator appears to see it, and that's the way most courts will see it.

    I sincerely doubt the mediator is actually ignoring either you or the law. A mediator's job is to attempt to settle things at the lowest level. If your ex is filing for sole custody on the basis you OC in the home, and you continue to do so, you'll have given her ample substantiation to elevate to the court, where the judgement is usually in favor of the mother, and where issues like firearms are involved, almost invariably in favor of the unarmed parent.

    Right or wrong, that's simply the way it is. Question is: Are you willing to work within that framework, or are you going to try and fight a very large, generally anti-gun, anti-father system?

    I can't give you legal advice. I can tell you what I'd do in that situation if I were you, as it was just five years ago when I was in precisely that situation (wife from Ca, I was in the military, stationed overseas). I ditched the guns. I hired a good lawyer and paid lots of bucks. As it was, I have good visitation rights, and that's been enough for me to have some serious parent and play time with my son!

    This is one situation where "sticking to your guns" may loose you your sons.

    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    There are the quick access small gun safes for a pistol or two for $100-$300 and Walmart used to sell a gun locker for about $100 that can hold a few long guns and several pistols.
    The Winchester model I purchased from Wal-Mart prior to my son visiting the first time after I'd bought my first post-divorce firearm is Winchester Electronic Pistol Safe, model WM-180-7. It retails for just $50, but I got it on sale at $30. It requires both a combination as well as a key to open it. I installed it, and used it. Had objections been raised, I could honestly respond by saying "I keep my firearms securely locked in a safe approved by the State of California for securing firearms."

    If you comply with your mediator's recommendation that you "keep [your] gun locked up at all times," you pull the rug out from beneath her arguement concerning sole custody.

    At least on that issue.
    Last edited by since9; 02-21-2011 at 11:37 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    140

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ronswat_21 View Post
    Thanx a lot for all the advice. I think I'll just keep it locked up for now.
    Unfortunate but I would approach this way as well, having my kid would outweigh any other options, but at the same time would check on a different resoltuion.

  18. #18
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ....gun?....kid?....gun?....kid?....need I go on?

    Do what you think you got to do.
    I own my guns to defend my kids! NEED I GO ON?

    While I won't judge anyone elses choices when custody is involved it is ludicrous to think that a responsible parent who carries a gun is any danger to their child. Reality and all the unfairness in life may make the individual compromise their beliefs but that doesn't make the belief wrong.

  19. #19
    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Stevens Point WI, ,
    Posts
    879
    Quote Originally Posted by ronswat_21 View Post
    My ex-wife is seeking sole custody of our 3 year old son because I open carry in my home in Sacramento CA. We had a custody mediation and the mediator said that although I am lawfully allowed to do so, he believes that I am wrong for carrying at home around my child and he is recommending to the court that I keep my gun locked up at all times. I even handed him a copy of PC 12025 and 12026 which he just wrote off. When my son is not at my home I keep my gun on the nightstand while I am in bed. Is that legal? Also, I was Army Infantry from 2005-2009 with a tour in Iraq in 2007 (honorable discharge). I have been diagnosed with PTSD because I have nightmares. The mediator is using this against me saying that my PTSD is the reason that I carry a gun and that I need counseling. I can't afford an attorney. Does anyone know of a way to get an attorney pro bono or cheap? Am I in accordance with the law? Will the judge agree with me or rule based on opinion? I need help so any info would be much appreciated.
    Sorry to hear that - mediation lawyers are pretty much pro-women. I've been through three in the course of 5 years and I swear they have something against a penis.

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm going to second the recommendation that you contact the folks over at CalGuns for guidance on understanding the Calif safe storage laws.

    Have you contacted either the VFW or American Legion for assistance in finding an attorney? While they do not normally deal with child custody matters (except for active duty deployed service members) there are several factors regarding your personal situation that might work to your favor in getting some assistance through their efforts.

    There are also several national organizations dealing with fathers' custodial rights. Do a Google search and follow up on what you find.

    Do not publically answer these questions, but take them as a HINT: What, if anything, are you doing to deal with your PTSD issues? Will someone who is working with you appear in court on your behalf?

    stay safe.
    Don't look for this American Legion post to help with firearm issues. they ban firearms. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-bans-firearms
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    When I was buying a gun during custody fight in my divorce, the judge threw out the attempt by her lawyers (and mine!!!!!!!) as having no bearing on the case.

    He had also threw out the TRO as having no merit saying he could tell I wasn't the person it painted, but had everything to do with money.

    Eventually she got it all money and my kids..........

    I don't know about your state, but money is the bottom factor here in Washington, I was perceived as the money maker (wrongly in many ways) and if it was the other way around there would be no reason for the state to be involved so even if the father is the better parent the majority of the time he looses here.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Valhalla, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    351
    Thx for serving our Country.

  23. #23
    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by ronswat_21 View Post
    My ex-wife is seeking sole custody of our 3 year old son because I open carry in my home in Sacramento CA. We had a custody mediation and the mediator said that although I am lawfully allowed to do so, he believes that I am wrong for carrying at home around my child and he is recommending to the court that I keep my gun locked up at all times. I even handed him a copy of PC 12025 and 12026 which he just wrote off. When my son is not at my home I keep my gun on the nightstand while I am in bed. Is that legal? Also, I was Army Infantry from 2005-2009 with a tour in Iraq in 2007 (honorable discharge). I have been diagnosed with PTSD because I have nightmares. The mediator is using this against me saying that my PTSD is the reason that I carry a gun and that I need counseling. I can't afford an attorney. Does anyone know of a way to get an attorney pro bono or cheap? Am I in accordance with the law? Will the judge agree with me or rule based on opinion? I need help so any info would be much appreciated.
    You need a good family law/firearms attorney ASAP. It will not be free or cheap, but it will give you the best chance of custody. There is no better man for this than Don Kilmer.

    -Brandon

    ###

    Law Offices of Donald Kilmer, A Professional Corporation
    1645 Willow Street, Suite 150
    San Jose, CA 95125
    Ph: (408) 264-8489
    Fx: (408) 264-8487
    info@dklawoffice.com
    Brandon Combs
    Secretary, Calguns Foundation
    Member, CRPA Board of Directors

    Join me in making regular monthly tax-deductible donations to the Calguns Foundation and help us advance gun rights in California today!

    Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all comments are my own and not the approved position of any organization, nor should they be considered legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    862
    Quote Originally Posted by ronswat_21 View Post
    My ex-wife is seeking sole custody of our 3 year old son because I open carry in my home in Sacramento CA. We had a custody mediation and the mediator said that although I am lawfully allowed to do so, he believes that I am wrong for carrying at home around my child and he is recommending to the court that I keep my gun locked up at all times. I even handed him a copy of PC 12025 and 12026 which he just wrote off. When my son is not at my home I keep my gun on the nightstand while I am in bed. Is that legal? Also, I was Army Infantry from 2005-2009 with a tour in Iraq in 2007 (honorable discharge). I have been diagnosed with PTSD because I have nightmares. The mediator is using this against me saying that my PTSD is the reason that I carry a gun and that I need counseling. I can't afford an attorney. Does anyone know of a way to get an attorney pro bono or cheap? Am I in accordance with the law? Will the judge agree with me or rule based on opinion? I need help so any info would be much appreciated.
    This is somewhat related, although it won't help in any way with your case. That kind of advice is better left to lawyers, and I am not a lawyer.

    But, when I was in the process of retiring, the docs tried to tack on PTSD to my records simply because I had trouble sleeping. Personally I feel it's in no way connected to military service, but the DA/ VA has been trying to tack on PTSD ever since Bush changed the rules somewhat in the mid- 2000s. His intentions were good, trying to make it easier for Veterans that needed help to get it, as well as smoothing the road for related benefits.

    But, it also has unintended consequences. A PTSD diagnosis can affect (in some states) the application process for concealed permits (whatever they are called in the different states) as well as buying permits (if a person's state required them).

    I can only think that one's officially diagnosed mental issues will be further scrutinized in the coming years, especially with more and more public calls to attention to shootings such as the one in Arizona that involved a US Congresswoman. I can't help but feel that a person's official medical records (especially those that deal with their mental health) will be official fodder both on the federal and state level more and more in the future.

    As it turned out, I did not allow for any mention of PTSD in my final records. For one, I thought that it was not a proper diagnosis. For two, I did not want any mention of it in records that could possibly be used against me in determining my capacity to either work or to buy anything related to guns in the future.

    By all means, if PTSD is something people are dealing with, I encourage everyone to seek the help that's out there. Access and care has greatly improved especially in the past 5-10 years or so. For those who need it, help is there and it's easier to get than ever before.

    However, I would also highly suggest that people take a good look at circumstances where it may be tacked onto your records unduly, simply because the government wants to "help" you out in scenarios where they may be pushing it on you without regard to a proper diagnosis.

    In other words, if anyone thinks that by putting it in your records simply because you can get more from the VA, it may work out as a detriment rather than something that helps in the long run.

    I want to stress that I am speaking in general terms to the open forum, and not addressing any individual specifically.

    *edited to correct my error in writing that California was the location of the recent shooting of a US Congresswoman. It now correctly states that the shooting happened in AZ. Blame it on the early hour.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 02-28-2011 at 07:28 AM.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    I can only think that one's officially diagnosed mental issues will be further scrutinized in the coming years, especially with more and more public calls to attention to shootings such as the one in California that involved a US Congresswoman. I can't help but feel that a person's official medical records (especially those that deal with their mental health) will be official fodder both on the federal and state level more and more in the future.

    As it turned out, I did not allow for any mention of PTSD in my final records. For one, I thought that it was not a proper diagnosis. For two, I did not want any mention of it in records that could possibly be used against me in determining my capacity to either work or to buy anything related to guns in the future.
    Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in Arizona not in California.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

    How do you "don't allow" or not permit a medical diagnosis?



    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •