springerdave
Regular Member
Hey Venator, see if you can latch onto a copy of the by-laws and make sure they followed procedure.springerdave.
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American Legion in Bath, MI Bans Firearms
- Thread starter TheQ
- Start date
Hey Venator, see if you can latch onto a copy of the by-laws and make sure they followed procedure.springerdave.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
+1...I was thinking the same thing. I would also see if there is an alternative way than what you stated to get this thing overturned.
PDinDetroit
Regular Member
Are the utilizing Robert's Rules of Order? If so, a Motion to Reconsider could have been done by anyone who voted on the prevailing side in the original vote. They can bring another motion next meeting to rescind that other action, unless there was a moratorium of some sort established.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconsideration_of_a_motion
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Definitely worth a try, but I would be somewhat surprised if the board actually had anyone on it that knew the procedure... but you never know, maybe they do.
Most organizations use a "modified" Robert's Rules of Order (RONR). I was trained in RONR years ago and if I try to use it in any deliberation, I get some pretty hostile responses... but it could be just me
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Definitely worth a try, but I would be somewhat surprised if the board actually had anyone on it that knew the procedure... but you never know, maybe they do.
Most organizations use a "modified" Robert's Rules of Order (RONR). I was trained in RONR years ago and if I try to use it in any deliberation I get some pretty hostile responses... but it could be just me
autosurgeon
Regular Member
Yeah I use Roberts Rules for my planning commission meetings and people really get worked up when I enforce the rules and stop the useless chatter. Not to mention what happens when I enforce the motion on the table discussion rules! :banana:
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Response from National. Interesting they claim to have no power over posts. Seems odd as then a post could engage in activities contrary to the national organizations policies.
Brian-
Thank you for contacting The American Legion National Headquarters with your question. The National Organization is unable to get involved in any activities at the Post level as per our National Constitution and By-Laws. Departments (state headquarters) of The American Legion have a general oversight, but not day-to-day operational responsibility, over the Posts within the Department. The National Organization does not have even this general oversight.
Furthermore, the American Legion is a grassroots organization. More importantly, the gun laws are covered by local and state ordinances and laws, each of which varies drastically throughout the country.
I would recommend contacting the Department of Michigan state headquarters at 517-371-4720 to see what the state of Michigan allows in their American Legion posts. Thank you and have a great weekend.
Scott A. Miller
Assistant Director, Internal Affairs and Membership
The American Legion
317-630-1269
www.legion.org
Brian-
Thank you for contacting The American Legion National Headquarters with your question. The National Organization is unable to get involved in any activities at the Post level as per our National Constitution and By-Laws. Departments (state headquarters) of The American Legion have a general oversight, but not day-to-day operational responsibility, over the Posts within the Department. The National Organization does not have even this general oversight.
Furthermore, the American Legion is a grassroots organization. More importantly, the gun laws are covered by local and state ordinances and laws, each of which varies drastically throughout the country.
I would recommend contacting the Department of Michigan state headquarters at 517-371-4720 to see what the state of Michigan allows in their American Legion posts. Thank you and have a great weekend.
Scott A. Miller
Assistant Director, Internal Affairs and Membership
The American Legion
317-630-1269
www.legion.org
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
Don't ya just love "political" answers that side step the issue and don't answer a damn thing but just pass the buck.
ETA:
Gettin close Brian...you break 5,000 posts...I'll buy you lunch.
ETA:
Gettin close Brian...you break 5,000 posts...I'll buy you lunch.
Last edited:
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
I want liver and onions!
Onnie
Regular Member
I believe its pass the Hot Potatoes!
WARCHILD
Regular Member
Liver and onions it is. There's a nice place here local to get them too. Of course you will have to come to Owosso to get it.
BTW: It does not include you making "countdown" posts to complete the task.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Liver and onions it is. There's a nice place here local to get them too. Of course you will have to come to Owosso to get it.
BTW: It does not include you making "countdown" posts to complete the task.
Sounds good, we should go even if I never reach 5000. I know you like liver and onions as well. :banana:
WARCHILD
Regular Member
Yep, you're right. Let's pick a date at lunch Sat before the show.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Well here is what the Michigan HQ's has to say.
Brian,
Thank you for your e-mail regarding Post #412 Bath. Please understand that all Michigan American Legion Posts are autonomous and Department Headquarters has no authority on the Post level, unless the Post is violating our Dept or National Constitution and By-Laws.- in other words each post sets and enforces their own rules. If this ban is with Post activities and programs I would suggest you take your concerns to the Post Executive Committee, but if its a Club Room issue, I would suggest talking to your "Club Board". The American Legion has always supported the right to bear arms, but this is a decision of your Post leadership, but if enough members support your opinion maybe the Post will reconsider their position? Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance to you
Pat Lafferty, Dept Adjutant
Brian,
Thank you for your e-mail regarding Post #412 Bath. Please understand that all Michigan American Legion Posts are autonomous and Department Headquarters has no authority on the Post level, unless the Post is violating our Dept or National Constitution and By-Laws.- in other words each post sets and enforces their own rules. If this ban is with Post activities and programs I would suggest you take your concerns to the Post Executive Committee, but if its a Club Room issue, I would suggest talking to your "Club Board". The American Legion has always supported the right to bear arms, but this is a decision of your Post leadership, but if enough members support your opinion maybe the Post will reconsider their position? Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance to you
Pat Lafferty, Dept Adjutant
Onnie
Regular Member
I think Aurthur Murry's Dance dance studio still teaches the side step. Maybe that's where he learned it from
WARCHILD
Regular Member
Hey, I just noticed...congrats Brian on 5,000+ posts. :banana:
Guess I'll have to get us some liver and onions now. :cuss::lol:
Guess I'll have to get us some liver and onions now. :cuss::lol:
Jared
Regular Member
I'm curious, why the double standard? Why is "private property" in Michigan able to be marked as a gun free zone, but the same "private property" can not allow smoking??? Ask the VFW about this....
It's hypocritical... I heard the same nonsense from Arizona (which has banned smoking for 4 years) when I lived there.
Is it unreasonable to ask for consistency, if they state is in the business of telling property owners how to conduct their business, then they should not be allowed to ban firearms. If there is a government nexus, then the constitution should apply.
It's hypocritical... I heard the same nonsense from Arizona (which has banned smoking for 4 years) when I lived there.
Is it unreasonable to ask for consistency, if they state is in the business of telling property owners how to conduct their business, then they should not be allowed to ban firearms. If there is a government nexus, then the constitution should apply.
karlmc10
Regular Member
The ban on smoking was not a private property issue but a workplace issue. The smoking ban was to keep workers free from second hand smoke. You can smoke in your home all you want. Private property owners can ban firearms on thier property because it's private property. If you don't like the firearms ban on a business' property then don't give them your money. Workers don't have the same ability when dealing with second hand smoke. I agree that it's crazy that the Legion has a ban on firearms, so I would not frequent the place nor give them any money, but I'm not a member. If I were a member I would either work to get it changed or renounce my membership.
The smoking ban and the ban on firearms on private property are two completely different issues, one is a support of workers rights to a healthy workplace the other an issue of private property rights. Remember, when on my land your rights are to breath and get off my land, all other actions are with my blessing.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Not really. A worker is free to find another job just as a person is free to not patronize an anti-gun business. See?
The point is, if a Government can delegate what a private business owner can and can not do (Smoking ban), then they can force them to allow firearms, a right enumerated in the Constitution. Smoking is a right, but is not specifically enumerated.
Both issues use the excuse of safety, but safety is the tyrants tool, for who can be against safety.
eastmeyers
Regular Member
Also if they can force you allow for clean lungs, they can force you to allow for someone to defend their own life. Can't have it both ways, oh wait they are the government.