Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: American Legion in Bath, MI bans firearms

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    American Legion in Bath, MI bans firearms

    This chapter of the great patriotic Veterans' association has taken upon itself to ban Firearms in their building. Venator, a member, is NOT happy at all.

    http://www.bathlegion412.org/
    info@bathlegion412.org
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member VetteFreakC5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    FT Bragg, NC
    Posts
    25
    wow, talk about a slap in the face to veterans
    "American parachutists -- devils in baggy pants, are less than 100m from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when, or how, they will strike next. Seems like the black hearted devils are everywhere...." Found in the diary of a German Officer who opposed the 504 PIR on the Anzio beachhead in WWII

  3. #3
    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    252
    You can't be serious?!

  4. #4
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,086
    That's amusing. One of the participating ranges in the Cuyahoga County Pistol League here is in the attic of the Legion post in Brook Park, Ohio.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    This chapter of the great patriotic Veterans' association has taken upon itself to ban Firearms in their building. Venator, a member, is NOT happy at all.

    http://www.bathlegion412.org/
    info@bathlegion412.org
    Link to the rule and/or announcement? I'm not seeing anything on their website, or did it get removed already?

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by PavePusher View Post
    Link to the rule and/or announcement? I'm not seeing anything on their website, or did it get removed already?
    The source seems to be a member of that post who is also a member here. Am I wrong?

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The source seems to be a member of that post who is also a member here. Am I wrong?
    The Source is "Venator" here. He is also a member of said Legion. Last night his Internet was down. He had attended the Legion meeting yesterday to attempt to get them to overturn their newly enacted policy (which was put in place at the behest of a Lansing PD Officer who is also a member).

    Venator's Internet was out last night so he asked me to post the info.

    ETA: there is a fresh new "No Firearms" sign on the door.



    In Michigan a CPL holder, like myself or Venator, can lawfully OC (but not CC) in a bar. Several weeks ago I joined Venator there while he sipped Scotch and I sipped straight Cola. I was OCing (Venator told me it was OC friendly) and that started the whole affair.

    When he attended the meeting to defend OC (as a Son of the Legion) he was kicked out. He wasn't carrying at the time. The only reason they kicked him was for passionately defending OC and shaming their move.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Clio, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The Source is "Venator" here. He is also a member of said Legion. Last night his Internet was down. He had attended the Legion meeting yesterday to attempt to get them to overturn their newly enacted policy (which was put in place at the behest of a Lansing PD Officer who is also a member).

    Venator's Internet was out last night so he asked me to post the info.

    ETA: there is a fresh new "No Firearms" sign on the door.



    In Michigan a CPL holder, like myself or Venator, can lawfully OC (but not CC) in a bar. Several weeks ago I joined Venator there while he sipped Scotch and I sipped straight Cola. I was OCing (Venator told me it was OC friendly) and that started the whole affair.

    When he attended the meeting to defend OC (as a Song if the Legion) he was kicked out. He wasn't carrying at the time. The only reason they kicked him was for passionately defending OC and shaming their move.
    Sounds like he should use the chain of command and fallow up on this? Even if the local post is out of line the National leaders can and I would think WOULD correct this issue. Has he contacted the higher up's???? Just thinking how to actualy affect change rather than get all crazy and stupid
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,764
    I'm a life member of the American Legion. I've written to the post, and hope other AL members will do so as well.

    It pains me to see Veterans treated this way -- and particularly by their own.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    I would never have guessed as a 17 year SAL member of the Bath American Legion post 412 that I would be ashamed to be a member. Last month a friend OCed into their post as my guest. Within a week a no firearms sign was posted. Apparently the Post held a meeting where one of the board members (A retired Lansing LEO btw) proposed banning firearms. There was only one nay vote (At least that officer took his oath seriously) and the motion passed.

    I could understand if this was a Moose lodge or the Masons, but a patriotic/veterans fraternal organization, the thought makes me sick to my stomach. Every one of these post officers took an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States, yet the first chance they get to stand up for it they blink and infringe upon it.

    Their reason is not that the person carrying the gun is unsafe, but that someone may jump them and take their gun. Yes really, that was what their fear is. Retention holster anyone?

    I can not support such a post and no person that understands what is as stake can. I will not be renewing my membership and will never step foot in that post until the policy changes.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyMarbles View Post
    Sounds like he should use the chain of command and fallow up on this? Even if the local post is out of line the National leaders can and I would think WOULD correct this issue. Has he contacted the higher up's???? Just thinking how to actualy affect change rather than get all crazy and stupid
    I email the national internal affairs contact via their website last week asking about a national policy on firearms. They have not responded.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445


    Notice the first thing they have in their Preamble.



    The American Legion Preamble to the Constitution

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY WE ASSOCIATE OURSELVES TOGETHER

    FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES:

    To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America;

    To maintain law and order;

    To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism;

    To preserve the memories and incidents of our associations in the Great Wars;

    To inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation;

    To combat the autocracy of both the classes and the masses;

    To make right the master of might;

    To promote peace and goodwill on earth;

    To safeguard and transmit to posterity the principles of justice, freedom and democracy;

    To consecrate and sanctify our comradeship by our devotion to mutual helpfulness.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post


    Notice the first thing they have in their Preamble.



    The American Legion Preamble to the Constitution

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY WE ASSOCIATE OURSELVES TOGETHER

    FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES:

    To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America;

    To maintain law and order;

    To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism;

    To preserve the memories and incidents of our associations in the Great Wars;

    To inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation;

    To combat the autocracy of both the classes and the masses;

    To make right the master of might;

    To promote peace and goodwill on earth;

    To safeguard and transmit to posterity the principles of justice, freedom and democracy;

    To consecrate and sanctify our comradeship by our devotion to mutual helpfulness.
    Evidently the oath means nothing to them. Doesn't speak well to their respecting it the first time they swore it, either.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator
    Their reason is not that the person carrying the gun is unsafe, but that someone may jump them and take their gun. Yes really, that was what their fear is.
    That says a lot about their estimation of the ... ahem ... caliber of people in the organization.
    If I were a member, I'd be offended on that cause even if I didn't carry.

    I submit that the LEO has a biased view, having only dealt with criminals for X many years, and that perhaps s/he should be reminded that this is a VETERAN'S organization, of whom the vast majority are exponentially better citizens.

    Also that VETERANS have some training in firearms, and aren't likely to go all wierd around them (exept those who voted for this new rule).
    Well, OK, and except for those that would go weak in the knees & drool over a particularly nice pistol.
    (I don't understand the phenomenon, but I know it exists.)
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I would never have guessed as a 17 year SAL member of the Bath American Legion post 412 that I would be ashamed to be a member. Last month a friend OCed into their post as my guest. Within a week a no firearms sign was posted.
    So folks who swore to uphold and defend our Constitution are now violating it.

    Apparently the Post held a meeting where one of the board members (A retired Lansing LEO btw) proposed banning firearms. There was only one nay vote (At least that officer took his oath seriously) and the motion passed.
    So a retarded former enforcer of the law can't stay retired and insisted on imposing control over everyone else. How much you want to bet he CC's while attending the post? and

    I could understand if this was a Moose lodge or the Masons, but a patriotic/veterans fraternal organization, the thought makes me sick to my stomach.
    I'm close to retching just reading about it.

    Every one of these post officers took an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States, yet the first chance they get to stand up for it they blink and infringe upon it.
    Here are some synonyms which may better describe any group of folks who swore an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same" yet become a turncoat to the very same Constitution they swore to defend.

    dizzy, addled, addlepated, bedeviled, befogged, befuddled, bemused, bewildered, bushed [chiefly Australian], confounded, confused, dazed, distracted, dopey (also dopy), fogged, mixed-up, muddleheaded, muzzy, pixilated (also pixillated), punch-drunk, punchy, raddled, shell-shocked, silly, slaphappy, spaced-out (or spaced), spacey (also spacy), stunned, stupefied, zonked, zonked-out
    - Source


    Their reason is not that the person carrying the gun is unsafe, but that someone may jump them and take their gun. Yes really, that was what their fear is.
    No doubt coached by the retarded, er, excuse me, "retired" Lansing LEO.

    Retention holster anyone?
    No kidding! How about a bucket of common sense for that VFW to go along with it? Apparently they're entirely addle.

    I can not support such a post and no person that understands what is as stake can. I will not be renewing my membership and will never step foot in that post until the policy changes.
    I support your move 100%. Four friends of mine bought the farm supporting and dending our Constitution. It would be a huge disgrace to my friends and their families, doubly so to myself, If I were to support a VFW which refused to support our Constitution.

    As a veteran of foreign wars, I was thinking of joining my local VFW, Post 9669, Rustic Hills Bicentennial Post. Before I do, however, I'd first have to see whether or not they're pro-Constitutional or anti-Constitutional. If the latter, I wouldn't give them a single penny, much less a second of my time, and would actively campaign against anyone joining them.

    Let's hope they took their oaths of office seriously.
    Last edited by since9; 02-23-2011 at 01:53 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  16. #16
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    912

    Since9

    I do believe you are aware that the American Legion and the VFW are two very different organizations. The former for Non-combat vets and the latter for the ones who actually had their backsides shot at.

    I would bet that the VFW won't have the same policies.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    I do believe you are aware that the American Legion and the VFW are two very different organizations. The former for Non-combat vets and the latter for the ones who actually had their backsides shot at.

    I would bet that the VFW won't have the same policies.
    Lest folks mistakenly think that what you describe is the official distinction between the two, members (probably a large majority) of the American Legion have had their backsides shot at. Some members of the VFW have not seen a single shot fired in anger.

    The eligibility requirements differ to make membership of the VFW somewhat more dominated by those who have been in combat, but combat is not a requirement of membership in either organization.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Lest folks mistakenly think that what you describe is the official distinction between the two, members (probably a large majority) of the American Legion have had their backsides shot at. Some members of the VFW have not seen a single shot fired in anger.

    The eligibility requirements differ to make membership of the VFW somewhat more dominated by those who have been in combat, but combat is not a requirement of membership in either organization.
    Most military in-country never hear a shot fired, much less have one shot at them. The Air Force has aviators who fly warplanes. Everyone else supports them on a base removed from combat areas, generally. The SPs do protect the base, but the threat--at least in SEA, was relatively small. Tanker aviators, transport guys generally aren't in combat areas--Hercs dumping paratroops are an exception in some cases. In SEA, only aviators flying warplanes from carriers were combatants from the Navy--plus Swift Boat guys.
    The VFW says you had to be in country, I believe, but as Eye states nothing about being in combat. There are groups who will not accept you if you weren't somebody's bullseye, as an old friend explained to me when he asked me to join. (He has since gone West in honored glory.) But these are smaller and generally aviator, Beret, SEAL, etc., centric. This is not a knock to those Vets who weren't someone's bullseye, everyone took their chances, for the most part, who served. The thought of joining a Veterans' org that bans firearms entering the building is absolute bs. I would wager a large sum that the ones who made the regulation never left Fort Dix or its equivalent. Couldn't pay me to join.

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,764
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Lest folks mistakenly think that what you describe is the official distinction between the two, members (probably a large majority) of the American Legion have had their backsides shot at. Some members of the VFW have not seen a single shot fired in anger.

    The eligibility requirements differ to make membership of the VFW somewhat more dominated by those who have been in combat, but combat is not a requirement of membership in either organization.
    VFW requires that you have served in a war zone during time of war, not that you've seen combat. I qualify by virtue of the fact I served in Korea (remember, an Armistice has been signed, but not a peace treaty), which is technically a war zone. My service in Southwest Asia between the two Gulf Wars did not qualify me.

    The American Legion claims to be open to all veterans. Except those who arm themselves, I guess.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,508
    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    The American Legion claims to be open to all veterans.
    Nope. I was active duty (Army) from 2 Feb 1986 to 6 Aug 1989, and I'm not eligible for membership.

    http://www.legion.org/join

    Eligibility Requirements for American Legion Membership

    If you are currently on active duty, serving the United States honorably, anywhere in the world, or have served honorably during any of the following eligible war eras, we invite you to become a member of The American Legion.

    April 6, 1917 to Nov. 11, 1918 (World War I)
    Dec. 7, 1941 to Dec. 31, 1946 (World War II)
    June 25, 1950 to Jan. 31, 1955 (Korean War)
    Feb. 28, 1961 to May 7, 1975 (Vietnam War)
    Aug. 24, 1982 to July 31, 1984 (Lebanon / Grenada)
    Dec. 20, 1989 to Jan. 31, 1990 (Panama)
    Aug. 2, 1990 to today (Gulf War / War On Terrorism)


    Not that I'm interested in joining. My politics wouldn't be very welcome at the Legion Hut.

  21. #21
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    In Michigan a CPL holder, like myself or Venator, can lawfully OC (but not CC) in a bar. Several weeks ago I joined Venator there while he sipped Scotch and I sipped straight Cola. I was OCing (Venator told me it was OC friendly) and that started the whole affair.
    Was Venator OCing also?
    Last edited by ODA 226; 02-25-2011 at 07:59 AM.
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Was Venator OCing also?
    No I was having an alcoholic drink, when I do that I don't carry. But my guests (a male and a female) were not drinking alcohol and were OCing.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,764
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Nope. I was active duty (Army) from 2 Feb 1986 to 6 Aug 1989, and I'm not eligible for membership.

    http://www.legion.org/join

    Eligibility Requirements for American Legion Membership

    If you are currently on active duty, serving the United States honorably, anywhere in the world, or have served honorably during any of the following eligible war eras, we invite you to become a member of The American Legion.

    April 6, 1917 to Nov. 11, 1918 (World War I)
    Dec. 7, 1941 to Dec. 31, 1946 (World War II)
    June 25, 1950 to Jan. 31, 1955 (Korean War)
    Feb. 28, 1961 to May 7, 1975 (Vietnam War)
    Aug. 24, 1982 to July 31, 1984 (Lebanon / Grenada)
    Dec. 20, 1989 to Jan. 31, 1990 (Panama)
    Aug. 2, 1990 to today (Gulf War / War On Terrorism)


    Not that I'm interested in joining. My politics wouldn't be very welcome at the Legion Hut.
    Oh, thank you. I knew they had opened up membership a few years ago, but forgot they still had those pre-1990 requirements.

  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Response from National. Interesting they claim to have no power over posts. Seems odd as then a post could engage in activities contrary to the national organizations policies.

    Brian-
    Thank you for contacting The American Legion National Headquarters with your question. The National Organization is unable to get involved in any activities at the Post level as per our National Constitution and By-Laws. Departments (state headquarters) of The American Legion have a general oversight, but not day-to-day operational responsibility, over the Posts within the Department. The National Organization does not have even this general oversight.


    Furthermore, the American Legion is a grassroots organization. More importantly, the gun laws are covered by local and state ordinances and laws, each of which varies drastically throughout the country.

    I would recommend contacting the Department of Michigan state headquarters at 517-371-4720 to see what the state of Michigan allows in their American Legion posts. Thank you and have a great weekend.

    Scott A. Miller
    Assistant Director, Internal Affairs and Membership
    The American Legion
    317-630-1269
    www.legion.org
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    OK, National says they cannot get involved. On to State.

    Meanwhile, are you going to ask for folks to contact the Post, or do you want us to wait and see what State has to say to you and the Post?

    stay safe.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •