Legality of carrying Antique Pistol/Replca without CPL by non-resident in Michigan.

OC4me · Feb 24, 2011

Thanks Venator,

That is what I thought, no Michigan 1,000 foot rule. Now all I have to worry about is the Federal Zone.

Does anybody know whether that Federal Gun Free School Zone applies to antique firearms?

Bronson · Feb 24, 2011

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is—

(I) not loaded; and

(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

(

3) The term “firearm” means

(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or

(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

Bronson

Michigander · Feb 24, 2011

OC4me said:
Is there a Michigan 1,000 foot school zone where I couldn't carry (even an antique firearm) or are we just subject to the Federal Gun Free School Zone act? If so, doesn't the Federal Gun Free School Zone act only apply to modern arms? Aren't antique firearms exempt from the Federal Gun Free School Zone act? Now I'm really confused..

Again, because of that law mentioned earlier, it doesn't matter if it's an antique or not. Antique status only makes them easier to buy, not legally carry openly. (Unless you're in Texas, but that's another matter.) Most of the laws about carrying make no distinction. Ownership and possession are treated very differently by almost every state's laws.

You have 4 fairly legal options that I know of.

MAYBE a Utah license. If they do that.

Change your residence to Michigan while you are here. Get a drivers license, get a permit to purchase, buy a handgun or use it to register one that maybe you already have. You'll be all set.

Use my spray suggestion.

Carry a long gun. It'll be way more trouble than it's worth, and you would again have the school zone issue.

Big Gay Al · Feb 25, 2011

OC4me said:
Hi, I've got an unusual situation. Let me describe.

I'm an expatriate American Citizen having recently moved to live overseas with my wife and daughter. I'll be visiting Michigan this summer and would like to carry concealed, however Michigan law only recognizes permits held by U.S. Citizens that were issued by their home state of residence. For that reason, I'm unable to get a concealed carry permit from any jurisdication that will be honored by Michigan.

From the MCRGO website:

Q: What is a “pistol” under Michigan law?
A: A pistol is defined as any firearm 30” in length or less (can include rifles [26”] and shotguns [30”], and pellet or dart guns). A smoothbore gun that shoots only BB’s .177 cal or less is not considered a firearm. All pellet guns are firearms. BB guns that shoot pellets or darts as well as BBs are considered firearms. A paint ball pistol is not considered a firearm nor is a USCG approved 12 ga. flare pistol, if used and carried as a signaling device.

Black Powder and Antiques (as of May of 2004)
Sections 2 (MCL 28.422) and 9 (MCL 28.429) of Public Act 372 of 1927, the concealed weapons law, do not apply to antique firearms. MCL 28.432 now says that purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm is not be subject to the licensure requirements under section 2 (purchase permits) or the requirements that a pistol be subject to a safety inspection conducted by the local police department under section 9.

Am I correct in believing that I can carry an antique pistol (openly or concealed) without a permit in Michigan? That seems to be what it says? Would I be good to go, or are there any legal gotchas that I would need to be aware of? Would the pistol-free zones still apply in the case of antiques?

Thanks!

Were you a resident of Florida? Did/do you have a Florida concealed permit/license? Do you still have a FL drivers license?

If you can answer yes, and if you still have both your FL drivers and concealed license, I'd say you'd have no worries. But what do I know.

OC4me · Feb 25, 2011

Michigander said:
Change your residence to Michigan while you are here. Get a drivers license, get a permit to purchase, buy a handgun or use it to register one that maybe you already have. You'll be all set..

Strictly speaking, it is not 'legally' possible to be a resident of Michigan while physically residing abroad. It wouldn't matter if I had a permanent domicile in Michigan, had a Michigan driver's license, and registered to vote in Michigan, etc. I am still physically residing in another country for almost the entire year. Perhaps a Michigan driver's license would be enough to fool the system in order to get a license, but I don't really want to perjure myself nor risk prosecution for unlawfull possession and/or carry by relying on an 'invalid' license.

At this point, I'm accepting that there is no practical or legal way for expatriate Americans to exercise their Second Amendment Rights in Michigan (and many other states). I know the courts will catch up in time and strike down U.S. residency requirements as a precondition for exercise of such a fundamental right . . . I'm fairly confident of that. However, I just don't have the wherewithal to mount my own challenge at this time.

Ok, we can close this thread, I really do appreciate everybody's input and assistance!

OC4me · Feb 25, 2011

Big Gay Al said:
Were you a resident of Florida? Did/do you have a Florida concealed permit/license? Do you still have a FL drivers license?

If you can answer yes, and if you still have both your FL drivers and concealed license, I'd say you'd have no worries. But what do I know.

Actually, I was a Florida resident and had a valid concealed weapons permit. Unfortunately, even though Florida will issue permits to out-of-staters, it has a U.S. residency requirement (this is where expatriate Americans fall through the cracks) and when I tried to renew my Florida Permit I was denied due solely to the fact that I resided outside the United States.

ElectricianLU58 · Feb 25, 2011

this is kind of a surreal thread.

so many anti gun people use "wild west" analogies in reference to open carry.

not judging. if i saw someone open carrying an 1851 Navy, i would be smiling for a week.

Legality of carrying Antique Pistol/Replca without CPL by non-resident in Michigan.

OC4me

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Bronson

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Michigander

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Big Gay Al

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OC4me

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OC4me

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ElectricianLU58

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