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Thread: public assemblage?

  1. #1
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    public assemblage?

    or into any other public assemblage of persons met for any lawful purpose.


    does this state assemblage (of how many people?) of people for a lawful purpose? like eating dinner or a night out to the movies? that's lawful right?

    i am having a hard time clarifying this particular section.

    anyone else point of view?

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    wow no other point of view? ok change subject.

    utah has until march 5th to tell me somethign about my ccw application. that is the 60 day mark.

    i believe they are a shall issue state correct?

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    Eating dinner is fine, Im from warrensburg/KnobNoster and there are places where I go eat while OC on a regular basis. Generally speaking, its a safe endeavor. Look out for signs. In Independence, Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, KC, there are places where you can OC, there are places with signs forbidding weapons. I Don't even support the places with the signs by going there unarmed. Going to the movies is fine, I do it all the time.

    The state assemblage?

    Endorsement does not authorize concealed firearms, where--penalty for violation.
    571.107. 1. A concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize the person in whose name the permit or endorsement is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state. No driver's license or nondriver's license containing a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into: (1) Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol office or station without the consent of the chief law enforcement officer in charge of that office or station. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the office or station shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (2) Within twenty-five feet of any polling place on any election day. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the polling place shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (3) The facility of any adult or juvenile detention or correctional institution, prison or jail. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any adult, juvenile detention, or correctional institution, prison or jail shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (4) Any courthouse solely occupied by the circuit, appellate or supreme court, or any courtrooms, administrative offices, libraries or other rooms of any such court whether or not such court solely occupies the building in question. This subdivision shall also include, but not be limited to, any juvenile, family, drug, or other court offices, any room or office wherein any of the courts or offices listed in this subdivision are temporarily conducting any business within the jurisdiction of such courts or offices, and such other locations in such manner as may be specified by supreme court rule pursuant to subdivision (6) of this subsection. Nothing in this subdivision shall preclude those persons listed in
    subdivision (1) of subsection 2 of section 571.030 while within their jurisdiction and on duty, those persons listed in subdivisions (2) and (4) of subsection 2 of section 571.030, or such other persons who serve in a law enforcement capacity for a court as may be specified by supreme court rule pursuant to subdivision (6) of this subsection from carrying a concealed firearm within any of the areas described in this subdivision. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any of the areas listed in this subdivision shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (5) Any meeting of the governing body of a unit of local government; or any meeting of the general assembly or a committee of the general assembly, except that nothing in this subdivision shall preclude a member of the body holding a valid concealed carry endorsement from carrying a concealed firearm at a meeting of the body which he or she is a member. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (6) The general assembly, supreme court, county or municipality may by rule, administrative regulation, or ordinance prohibit or limit the carrying of concealed firearms by endorsement holders in that portion of a building owned, leased or controlled by that unit of government. Any portion of a building in which the carrying of concealed firearms is prohibited or limited shall be clearly identified by signs posted at the entrance to the restricted area. The statute, rule or ordinance shall exempt any building used for public housing by private persons, highways or rest areas, firing ranges, and private
    dwellings owned, leased, or controlled by that unit of government from any restriction on the carrying or possession of a firearm. The statute, rule or ordinance shall not specify any criminal penalty for its violation but may specify that persons violating the statute, rule or ordinance may be denied entrance to the building, ordered to leave the building and if employees of the unit of government, be subjected to disciplinary measures for violation of the provisions of the statute, rule or ordinance. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any other unit of government;
    (7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises.
    Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry
    endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;
    (8) Any area of an airport to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the airport shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (9) Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law;
    (10) Any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of the governing body of the higher education institution or a school official or the district school board. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (11) Any portion of a building used as a child-care facility without the consent of the manager. Nothing in this subdivision shall prevent the operator of a child-care facility in a family home from owning or possessing a firearm or a driver's license or nondriver's license containing a concealed carry endorsement;
    (12) Any riverboat gambling operation accessible by the public without the consent of the owner or manager pursuant to rules promulgated by the gaming commission. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of a riverboat gambling operation shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (13) Any gated area of an amusement park. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the amusement park shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (14) Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (15) Any private property whose owner has posted the premises as being off-limits to concealed firearms by means of one or more signs displayed in a conspicuous place of a minimum size of eleven inches by fourteen inches with the writing thereon in letters of not less than one inch. The owner, business or commercial lessee, manager of a private business enterprise, or any other organization, entity, or person may prohibit persons holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying concealed
    firearms on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying concealed firearms on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer of the business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying a concealed firearm is prohibited. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the
    vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. An employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying a concealed firearm in vehicles owned by the employer;
    (16) Any sports arena or stadium with a seating capacity of five thousand or more. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
    (17) Any hospital accessible by the public. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of a hospital shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises.
    2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her endorsement to carry
    concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years. Upon conviction of charges arising from a citation issued pursuant to this subsection, the court shall notify the sheriff of the
    county which issued the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue. The sheriff shall suspend or revoke the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue shall issue a notice of such suspension or revocation of the concealed carry endorsement and take action to remove the concealed carry endorsement from the individual's driving record. The director of revenue shall notify the licensee that he or she must apply for a new license pursuant to chapter 302, RSMo, which does not contain such endorsement. A concealed carry endorsement suspension pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall
    be reinstated at the time of the renewal of his or her driver's license. The notice issued by the department of revenue shall be mailed to the last known address shown on the individual's driving record. The notice is deemed received three days after mailing.
    (L. 2003 H.B. 349, et al., 571.094, subsecs. 20, 21, A.L. 2009 H.B. 132)

    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or
    (2) Sets a spring gun; or
    (3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, RSMo, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or
    (4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or
    (5) Possesses or discharges a firearm or projectile weapon while intoxicated; or
    (6) Discharges a firearm within one hundred yards of any occupied schoolhouse, courthouse, or church building; or
    (7) Discharges or shoots a firearm at a mark, at any object, or at random, on, along or across a public highway or discharges or shoots a firearm into any outbuilding; or
    (8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or
    (9) Discharges or shoots a firearm at or from a motor vehicle, as defined in section 301.010, RSMo,
    discharges or shoots a firearm at any person, or at any other motor vehicle, or at any building or habitable structure, unless the person was lawfully acting in self-defense; or
    (10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.
    2. Subdivisions (1), (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9) and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to or affect any of the following:
    (1) All state, county and municipal peace officers who have completed the training required by the police officer standards and training commission pursuant to sections 590.030 to 590.050, RSMo, and
    possessing the duty and power of arrest for violation of the general criminal laws of the state or for violation of ordinances of counties or municipalities of the state, whether such officers are on or off duty, and whether such officers are within or outside of the law enforcement agency's jurisdiction, or all qualified retired peace officers, as defined in subsection 10 of this section, and who carry the identification defined in subsection 11 of this section, or any person summoned by such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting such officer;
    (2) Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of crime;
    (3) Members of the armed forces or national guard while performing their official duty;
    (4) Those persons vested by article V, section 1 of the Constitution of Missouri with the judicial power of the state and those persons vested by Article III of the Constitution of the United States with the judicial power of the United States, the members of the federal judiciary;
    (5) Any person whose bona fide duty is to execute process, civil or criminal;
    (6) Any federal probation officer or federal flight deck officer as defined under the federal flight deck officer program, 49 U.S.C. Section 44921;
    (7) Any state probation or parole officer, including supervisors and members of the board of probation and parole;
    (8) Any corporate security advisor meeting the definition and fulfilling the requirements of the regulations established by the board of police commissioners under section 84.340, RSMo; and
    (9) Any coroner, deputy coroner, medical examiner, or assistant medical examiner.
    3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or
    projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.
    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.
    5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031, RSMo.
    6. Nothing in this section shall make it unlawful for a student to actually participate in school sanctioned gun safety courses, student military or ROTC courses, or other school-sponsored firearm related events, provided the student does not carry a firearm or other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any other function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.
    7. Unlawful use of weapons is a class D felony unless committed pursuant to subdivision (6), (7), or (8) of subsection 1 of this section, in which cases it is a class B misdemeanor, or subdivision (5) or (10) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class A misdemeanor if the firearm is unloaded and a class D felony if the firearm is loaded, or subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class B felony, except that if the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section results in injury or death to another person, it is a class A felony.
    8. Violations of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section shall be punished as follows:
    (1) For the first violation a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony;
    (2) For any violation by a prior offender as defined in section 558.016, RSMo, a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony without the possibility of parole, probation or conditional release for a term of ten years;
    (3) For any violation by a persistent offender as defined in section 558.016, RSMo, a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony without the possibility of parole, probation, or conditional release;
    (4) For any violation which results in injury or death to another person, a person shall be sentenced to an authorized disposition for a class A felony.
    9. Any person knowingly aiding or abetting any other person in the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section shall be subject to the same penalty as that prescribed by this section for violations by other persons.
    10. As used in this section "qualified retired peace officer" means an individual who:
    (1) Retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a peace officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;
    (2) Before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;
    (3) Before such retirement, was regularly employed as a peace officer for an aggregate of fifteen years or more, or retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;
    (4) Has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency if such a plan is available;
    (5) During the most recent twelve-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for training and qualification for active peace officers to carry firearms;
    (6) Is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (7) Is not prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm.
    11. The identification required by subdivision (1) of subsection 2 of this section is:
    (1) A photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a peace officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active peace officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
    (2) A photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a peace officer; and
    (3) A certification issued by the state in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual
    has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the state to meet the standards established by the state for training and qualification for active peace officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

    (RSMo 1939 4425, A.L. 1959 H.B. 43, A.L. 1981 H.B. 296, A.L. 1993 H.B. 562 merged with S.B. 250, A.L. 1995 H.B. 160, A.L. 1997 S.B. 367, A.L. 1998
    S.B. 478, A.L. 2000 S.B. 944, A.L. 2003 H.B. 349, et al. merged with S.B. 5, A.L. 2007 S.B. 62 & 41)
    *Transferred 1978; formerly 562.070

    CROSS REFERENCES: Discharging a firearm or weapon at a railroad train or railmounted work equipment while committing a trespass to railroad property,
    class D felony, RSMo 389.653
    Violation of this section may also be a hate crime, RSMo 557.035
    Last edited by afcarry; 02-24-2011 at 10:26 AM.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

  4. #4
    Regular Member afcarry's Avatar
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    And yes, to the best of my knowledge, Utah is a 'Shall Issue' state.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

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    Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager.

    this in particular. i went to buffalo wild wings tueaday. its a sports bar like applebees, ect...

    i have no idea what % is from liquor and food. now it was more toward a food establishment

    The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food.


    now for this, the seating is way more than 50 people, but theres that and in there.

    maybe i am just reading in too much depth.

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    Unfortunately, I think you're reading it correctly. That's one of the most annoying things about MO's CC law. I don't hang out in bar bars or drink much, so that's not a concern. I'm thinking in particular of W.F. Cody's in Springfield. They serve food, but a lot of alcohol is drank there too. Do I know which side of the 51% line they fall on? I've got no clue. Does anyone working there know? Maybe if the owner is there. But I can't go around asking "Hey, does anyone know if you receive more than 51% of your revenue from food sales. Because if you don't, I can't have my concealed gun in here." But, if a LEO found out I was carrying concealed, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that they'd find out when the owner got in. And it would never occur to the prosecutor that I would not be privy to that information.

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    this is for opencarry

    i just realized i missed the very first important line..

    Endorsement does not authorize concealed firearms, where--penalty for violation.
    oops!


    now with that being said, your weapon is concealed. none of this will even apply to you unles you have to draw in a pure self defence situation
    and i will gladly take some misdemeanor (i dont think it is a felony) over losing my life

  8. #8
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    "Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food."

    The way I read it - If you get the owners permission, then your good to go no matter what and you don't have to worry about the rest of that lengthy lawyer-friendly God-awful hateful paragraph. But also don't forget the context as stated in the title and first sentence: Endorsement does not authorize concealed firearms, where--penalty for violation. 571.107. 1. A concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.....(so on and so forth) Open carry is still kosher.

    Oh damn, he just said that while I was typing.
    Last edited by afcarry; 02-24-2011 at 09:04 PM.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

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    Well I said CC, because I knew that was what was in play in that section of the statutes. Guess I learned more in my CCW class than I thought.

    kylemoul, I know you mentioned getting a Utah permit. You might also consider taking the MO CCW class. They will spend a couple hours going over all of these laws in general. It's fairly useful in understanding your rights.

    You might also check out this link: http://kljamisonlaw.com/author.asp and pick "Read the author's updates". Kevin Jamison is a big 2A attorney in KC, and he's got an excellent style in writing understandably about this stuff. His book goes into further discussion about all of these points, but it's not been updated since CCW became legal. So, it's pretty dated. But, his update covers all of that. His book goes into the public assemblage and every thing else you were wondering about (and is cheaper than CCW training.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Unfortunately, I think you're reading it correctly. That's one of the most annoying things about MO's CC law. I don't hang out in bar bars or drink much, so that's not a concern. I'm thinking in particular of W.F. Cody's in Springfield. They serve food, but a lot of alcohol is drank there too. Do I know which side of the 51% line they fall on? I've got no clue. Does anyone working there know? Maybe if the owner is there. But I can't go around asking "Hey, does anyone know if you receive more than 51% of your revenue from food sales. Because if you don't, I can't have my concealed gun in here." But, if a LEO found out I was carrying concealed, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that they'd find out when the owner got in. And it would never occur to the prosecutor that I would not be privy to that information.
    Two things:

    One, if the establishment serves alcohol on Sundays, you can be certain that they derive at least 51% of their income from the sales of food. Places like Applebees, Red Lobster, TGI Fridays, Buffalo Wild Wings, etc. ALL come under the category of "bonafide restaurant".

    Two - Even if they are NOT a bonafide restaurant and they DON'T seat at least 50 people, it is not a criminal offense for a CCW permit holder to carry his/her concealed firearm into such a place anyway, whether they are posted or not. Since it is not a crime, you need not worry about being prosecuted for it. Now if you elevate it to the point that it constitutes a crime, such as by refusing to leave if/when you are asked, then you can be prosecuted, but that applies no matter where you are and no matter what kind of signs they do or do not have hanging on the door.

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    i did take my class with a mo/fl/ut instructor. i am getting mu utah for a particular reason.
    he did not go into the depth that we go into, most likely because of the fact it is how each person interprets the text.

    so am i right assume it shall be ok to open carry in a place like that?
    once again i get turned around by the wording. i know that 571 was targeted to conceal carriers as it reads.

  12. #12
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    i did take my class with a mo/fl/ut instructor. i am getting mu utah for a particular reason.
    he did not go into the depth that we go into, most likely because of the fact it is how each person interprets the text.

    so am i right assume it shall be ok to open carry in a place like that?
    once again i get turned around by the wording. i know that 571 was targeted to conceal carriers as it reads.
    As long as it isn't posted or located in a jurisdiction that restricts OC, then you should be okay. But you should always be prepared for a freaked-out employee to ask you to leave. If they do, simply thank them, wish them a good day, and head out the door.

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    sounds good.

    on a side note, i did not carry into wildwings because i decided to have a blue moon (with an orange slice), and i know oc and alcohol opens a new door which is usually restricted. was only 1 beer, but liquor is liquor.
    but for future use it is good to know.

    so far all of my oc have been nothing but eventless. no freaked out people which is good. a few people notice and act scared-like, some people who just didnt break a sweat.

    so i was not too egar to carry.
    and this was in st charles, if that matters. no oc restriction except assemblage and being intoxicated.

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    You are right, I didn't notice that there were two chapters posted, 571.107 and 571.030. Penalties for CCW permit holder violations are in 571.107. And those aren't much of a penalty. If you are asked and refuse to leave, you can be charged with trespassing, you get an escalating fine with each occurrence, and you can have your license yanked. Of course, if you don't

    What I'm not sure is, what is the affirmative defense to carrying a gun into an election place without a CCW? That is illegal according to 571.030.1.8 (without the stupid bar/restaurant wiggling). According to how I read that statute, you would be violation of that statute by open carrying at all in an election place. Whereas a CCW license holder, with firearm concealed, would be free to waltz in with his firearm, and vote freely. If s/he were caught, just say "Ooops, my bad" and walk back out again.

    Unfortunately, nobody teaches open carry laws in Missouri. And the amount of information that has to be covered in 8 hours for CCW leaves little time for extra lectures. Maybe I'll ask Kevin about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    sounds good.

    on a side note, i did not carry into wildwings because i decided to have a blue moon (with an orange slice), and i know oc and alcohol opens a new door which is usually restricted. was only 1 beer, but liquor is liquor.
    but for future use it is good to know.

    so far all of my oc have been nothing but eventless. no freaked out people which is good. a few people notice and act scared-like, some people who just didnt break a sweat.

    so i was not too egar to carry.
    and this was in st charles, if that matters. no oc restriction except assemblage and being intoxicated.
    And it's no longer unlawful to simply be in possession of a firearm while intoxicated. That law (RSMO 571.030.1.(5) ) was amended last year.

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    i thought that law was only for concealed, and open carried on your own property or vehicle?

    i myself am not worried about polling. some may get upset, but i have not found anyone worth voting and giving my 2 cents for..yet.
    of course i have only recently been getting into politics and the such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    You are right, I didn't notice that there were two chapters posted, 571.107 and 571.030. Penalties for CCW permit holder violations are in 571.107. And those aren't much of a penalty. If you are asked and refuse to leave, you can be charged with trespassing, you get an escalating fine with each occurrence, and you can have your license yanked. Of course, if you don't

    What I'm not sure is, what is the affirmative defense to carrying a gun into an election place without a CCW? That is illegal according to 571.030.1.8 (without the stupid bar/restaurant wiggling). According to how I read that statute, you would be violation of that statute by open carrying at all in an election place. Whereas a CCW license holder, with firearm concealed, would be free to waltz in with his firearm, and vote freely. If s/he were caught, just say "Ooops, my bad" and walk back out again.

    Unfortunately, nobody teaches open carry laws in Missouri. And the amount of information that has to be covered in 8 hours for CCW leaves little time for extra lectures. Maybe I'll ask Kevin about that.
    You are specifically exempt from RSMO 571.030.1.(8) if you have a valid CCW endorsement under RSMO 571.030.4.

    571.107.1.(2) and 571.107.2 only address concealed firearms carried by an endorsement holder, NOT openly carried firearms. Presumably, as long as you possessed a valid CCW endorsement, it would not be a criminal act to enter a poling place with your openly carried firearm (due to the exemption in 571.030.3), but I wouldn't expect any responding officer to know that, or to care about your explanation. My guess is that you would be treated with a lot of hostility.
    Last edited by cshoff; 02-24-2011 at 10:37 PM.

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    again as far as the concealed, as long as im not in a federal building i dont care. because if that time comes, i would rather take a crap misdem charge than lose my life.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    i thought that law was only for concealed, and open carried on your own property or vehicle?
    Which law are you referring to?

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    the intox law

  21. #21
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    the intox law
    That law applies concealed or open, at home or out, in a vehicle or not.

    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
    .
    .
    .
    (5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

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    ooh ok. well as long as i do not act like an idiot, you are fine.

    i knew it was for in your home or vehicle. was not sure in public
    Last edited by kylemoul; 02-24-2011 at 10:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    You are specifically exempt from RSMO 571.030.1.(8) if you have a valid CCW endorsement under RSMO 571.030.3.3
    So, now I'm even more confused (not that it's an unusual state for me...) RSMO 571.030.3 looks to be about several different exceptions (motor vehicle, hunting, in your house, peaceable journey or a school-sanctioned firearm-related event). I don't see any verbiage relating to CCW endorsements. Can you post the text you think is applicable? I know there has to be something that says 571.107 or 571.030 applies in a particular case, I just don't know what it is, and I don't think this is it.

    If you have a CCW endorsement, I think you would be covered under 571.107, no matter if you are OC or CC (although it would appear to be patently stupid in this case to OC). But, if you don't have a CCW, it looks to be clearly illegal to take an openly carried weapon into a election place (or any of the other enumerated areas.) Just as it is illegal to CC without the endorsement.

    Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to make sure I've got my bases covered.

  24. #24
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    So, now I'm even more confused (not that it's an unusual state for me...) RSMO 571.030.3 looks to be about several different exceptions (motor vehicle, hunting, in your house, peaceable journey or a school-sanctioned firearm-related event). I don't see any verbiage relating to CCW endorsements. Can you post the text you think is applicable? I know there has to be something that says 571.107 or 571.030 applies in a particular case, I just don't know what it is, and I don't think this is it.

    If you have a CCW endorsement, I think you would be covered under 571.107, no matter if you are OC or CC (although it would appear to be patently stupid in this case to OC). But, if you don't have a CCW, it looks to be clearly illegal to take an openly carried weapon into a election place (or any of the other enumerated areas.) Just as it is illegal to CC without the endorsement.

    Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to make sure I've got my bases covered.
    Yeah, I cited the wrong number. Here is what I said: "You are specifically exempt from RSMO 571.030.1.(8) if you have a valid CCW endorsement under RSMO 571.030.3"

    What I should have said is "You are specifically exempt from RSMO 571.030.1.(8) if you have a valid CCW endorsement under RSMO 571.030.4"

    So here is 571.030.1.(8):

    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
    .
    .
    .
    (8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or
    And if we read into the statutes a little further, we find the exception for 571.030.1.(8):

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.
    I apologize for citing the wrong statute. My fault. I had too many numbers running through my head at the moment.

    ETA - I went back and corrected the statute number in my previous post so as not to cause any additional confusion.
    Last edited by cshoff; 02-24-2011 at 10:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    sounds good.

    on a side note, i did not carry into wildwings because i decided to have a blue moon (with an orange slice), and i know oc and alcohol opens a new door which is usually restricted. was only 1 beer, but liquor is liquor.
    but for future use it is good to know.

    so far all of my oc have been nothing but eventless. no freaked out people which is good. a few people notice and act scared-like, some people who just didnt break a sweat.

    so i was not too egar to carry.
    and this was in st charles, if that matters. no oc restriction except assemblage and being intoxicated.
    Kellogg and I OCed at Show Me's in St. Charles last month. Had a few beers and talked for a couple hours. No one said anything to us.

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