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Thread: Shreveport: man arrested for guns in school zone

  1. #1
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    Shreveport: man arrested for guns in school zone

    This should add more fuel to the discussion about guns in school zones in Louisiana.

    http://www.ktbs.com/news/26957454/detail.html

    A man who called police and asked them to meet him in a Shreveport neighborhood had an array of weapons spread out on the trunk of his car. He's been arrested for possession of firearms in close proximity to an elementary school.
    ( . . . )
    Police Department spokesman Sgt. Bill Goodin said John Wiese, 50, of Homer called police just before 9 a.m. and asked for a patrol supervisor to meet him in the 700 block of Thora Boulevard. He gave no more information, Goodin said.
    ( . . . )
    The car was parked within 1,000 feet of South Highland Elementary Magnet School. State law prohibits possession of guns in close proximity to a school.

    Police said they seized a bolt-action .308-caliber rifle, a semiautomatic .308-caliber rifle, two semiautomatic .22-caliber rifles, a .460-caliber Magnum revolver, a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol, a 12-gauge pump shotgun, 500 rounds of ammunition and a crossbow.
    ( . . . )
    Wiese was booked on charges of carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon in a firearm-free zone.




    There's no doubt he was within a thousand feet. He was either directly behind, or just off the corner from, the school property. Map of the area.

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    Regular Member -David's Avatar
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    Strange sequence of events if it's all true. He sounds like a real dumbass.

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    The Question is...: Does He have a Permit?

    Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii), if He had a Valid Louisiana Permit, then, 18 U.S.C. 922(q) does NOT Apply to, or Effect, Him under Federal Law.

    Furthermore, if He does have a Louisiana Concealed Handgun Permit, then, He is also Exempt under Louisiana Revised Statute 14:95.2(C)(4). House Bill 556, Authored by Wooton, and Signed by The Louisiana State Governor, under ACT 925, as Amended, to Read: http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdat...asp?did=722945

    This Case would Rest Entirely, as a Matter of Law, that He did, or did not, have a Louisiana Concealed Handgun Premit, as is provided under Louisiana Laws R.S. 40:1379.1 or R.S. 40:1379.3.

    He can NOT Claim Louisiana Revised Statute 14:95.2(C)(5) as a Defense, because; His Firearms were NOT Inclosed, Entirely, within His own Private Motor Vehicle.

    aadvark

    *** Although Unintentional, it is a Collateral Consequence of The 1,000 Foot Prohibitions Concerning Firearm Located within 1,000 Feet of any School that Provides Elementary or Secondary Education under State Law. The Definition of School Zone, under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(25)(B) should be REPEALED, and ALL State Laws should be AMENDED, Acordingly. ***
    Last edited by aadvark; 02-23-2011 at 10:04 AM.

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    No, I don't think this is the question. I'm pretty sure that if in fact all of the weapons were spread out on the trunk of his car, then they weren't concealed IAW LA CHP laws. Therefore, this doesn't apply.


    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    The Question is...: Does He have a Permit?

    Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii), if He had a Valid Louisiana Permit, then, 18 U.S.C. 922(q) does NOT Apply to, or Effect, Him under Federal Law.

    Furthermore, if He does have a Louisiana Concealed Handgun Permit, then, He is also Exempt under Louisiana Revised Statute 14:95.2(C)(4). House Bill 556, Authored by Wooton, and Signed by The Louisiana State Governor, under ACT 925, as Amended, to Read: http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdat...asp?did=722945

    This Case would Rest Entirely, as a Matter of Law, that He did, or did not, have a Louisiana Concealed Handgun Premit, as is provided under Louisiana Laws R.S. 40:1379.1 or R.S. 40:1379.3.

    He can NOT Claim Louisiana Revised Statute 14:95.2(C)(5) as a Defense, because; His Firearms were NOT Inclosed, Entirely, within His own Private Motor Vehicle.

    aadvark

    *** Although Unintentional, it is a Collateral Consequence of The 1,000 Foot Prohibitions Concerning Firearm Located within 1,000 Feet of any School that Provides Elementary or Secondary Education under State Law. The Definition of School Zone, under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(25)(B) should be REPEALED, and ALL State Laws should be AMENDED, Acordingly. ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    He can NOT Claim Louisiana Revised Statute 14:95.2(C)(5) as a Defense, because; His Firearms were NOT Inclosed, Entirely, within His own Private Motor Vehicle.

    aadvark
    READ the statute... 14:95.2(C)(5) does not REQUIRE that the firearm be entirely enclosed in the vehicle... it specifically states:
    (5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.
    Do you see that??? ANY constitutionally protected activity... possessing a firearm openly is in fact constituionally protected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -David View Post
    No, I don't think this is the question. I'm pretty sure that if in fact all of the weapons were spread out on the trunk of his car, then they weren't concealed IAW LA CHP laws. Therefore, this doesn't apply.
    If he has a CHP, then this may keep him from being charged in FEDERAL court... or at least give him an easy defence.

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    georg jetson:

    If Open Carry is a Constitutional Protected Activity, then why was He Charged?

    aadvark

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    Regular Member -David's Avatar
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    Now we are on to the real discussion...

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Having A CHP does not allow him to carry a gun unless it is carried concealed in accordance with the rules of the permit.
    (4) The possession of a firearm occurring within one thousand feet of school
    17 property and entirely on private property, or entirely within a private residence, or
    18 in accordance with a concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to R.S. 40:1379.1
    19 or R.S. 40:1379.3.
    Just having the permit doesn't do you any good if the weapon is not concealed.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    georg jetson:

    If Open Carry is a Constitutional Protected Activity, then why was He Charged?

    aadvark
    If Open Carry is a Constitutional Protected Activity!!!??? It is no secret on the La. forum that the La. Const Art 1 sec 11 does exactly that.

    Why was he charged??? I don't know. I'd rather not speculate about a "media" accunt of what happened. It would be nice to see the charging document.

    For sure... if he was arrested for violating 14:95.2, then he has definitly incurred damages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    Having A CHP does not allow him to carry a gun unless it is carried concealed in accordance with the rules of the permit.

    Just having the permit doesn't do you any good if the weapon is not concealed.
    If he is charged with violating STATE law then yes.

    If he is charged with violating FEDERAL law then no.

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    georg jetson:

    Article 1 Section 11 of The Louisiana Constitution is Clear in that Open Carry is Legal in Louisiana.

    I Agree with You in that such Activity is NOT a Crime under Louisiana Revised Code 14:95 either.

    However, my Concern is, if Open Carry is Legal..., which is is..., then, why was He Charged if The Shreveport Police had Cause, or at least should have Known, that Open Carry would be The Constitutional Protected Activity that is Mentioned under Louisiana Revised Code 14:95.2(C)(5)?

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 02-23-2011 at 11:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    georg jetson:

    Article 1 Section 11 of The Louisiana Constitution is Clear in that Open Carry is Legal in Louisiana.

    I Agree with You in that such Activity is NOT a Crime under Louisiana Revised Code 14:95 either.

    However, my Concern is, if Open Carry is Legal..., which is is..., then, why was He Charged if The Shreveport Police had Cause, or at least should have Known, that Open Carry would be The Constitutional Protected Activity that is Mentioned under Louisiana Revised Code 14:95.2(C)(5)?

    aadvark
    Your concern is well founded...
    Maybe the Shreveport Police are mistake... it happens. I think the issue may be that the article is misreporting. Even further, it would be travesty if this guy plea bargains...

    Unfrotumately, I wasn't there so I can't comment much on the facts. Could it be that he was charged with negligent carrying because of the way he had the weapons displayed?? It would be nice if someone who lived in shreveport could do a little leg work and find out what the charges actually are. If it IS 14:95.2, then it becomes a very interesting case for us.

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    georg jetson:

    If The Charges Levied against The Man do in Fact Stem from Louisiana Revised Code 14:95.2, then, it will Indeed be a Interesting Case for Louisianans, State-wide.

    I Hope, for this Guys Sake, that if The Charges, as Reported, are Indeed Correct, then, that The Issue is Favorably Resolved as much as Possible without a Felony Conviction.

    It is Ironic..., that under Louisiana Revised Code 14:95.2(D)(1) The Crime is Punishable as a Felony, BUT under Louisiana Revised Code 14:95(B)(1), The SAME Crime is only a Misdemeanor.

    aadvark

    *** Under (5)(a) of Louisiana Revised Code 14:95, Carrying a Firearm on School Campus for The First Time is a Misdemeanor, BUT under (B)(1) of Louisiana Revised Code 14:95.2 Carrying a Firearm within 1,000 Feet of The SAME Campus is a Felony. ***

    *** How can a Charge be a Felony within a 1,000 Feet of a School, but Automatically Reduce itself to only a Misdemeanor once a Person Actually goes in or on School Property? ***
    Last edited by aadvark; 02-23-2011 at 12:42 PM.

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    Having A CHP does not allow him to carry a gun unless it is carried concealed in accordance with the rules of the permit.

    Just having the permit doesn't do you any good if the weapon is not concealed.
    Ok, can you show us were you are required to actually conceal your weapon under the concealed carry permit regulations???? This has been discussed here several times and yet I do not believe anyone has shown any proof that you actually have to conceal your weapon.

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    estcrh:

    I Agree with You, in that Concealed Carry Holders are NOT Required to Conceal.

    Absent a Law on The Matter..., such Actions are Considered Legal in Common Law Jurisdictions.

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 02-23-2011 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    Ok, can you show us were you are required to actually conceal your weapon under the concealed carry permit regulations???? This has been discussed here several times and yet I do not believe anyone has shown any proof that you actually have to conceal your weapon.
    This is sometimes argued:

    RS 40:1379.3
    I(3) The permit to carry a concealed weapon shall be revoked by the deputy secretary when the permittee is carrying and concealing a handgun under any of the following circumstances:
    (d) An individual is found guilty of negligent carrying of a concealed handgun as provided for in R.S. 40:1382.

    RS 40:1382
    A. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun is the intentional or criminally negligent carrying by any person, whether or not authorized or licensed to carry or possess a concealed handgun, under the following circumstances:
    (2) When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.

    So I suppose someone open carrying a firearm (and possessing a CHP) going into a quickie stop at night could create the reasonable apprehension on the part of the police or public that a crime is about to be committed. The CHP holder could be charged with negligent carrying, and if found guilty it would mean that the CHP would be revoked. All because the firearm was not concealed and the sheeple got scared.

    On the other hand, if you didn't have that CHP in the first place and are open carrying....
    Last edited by -David; 02-23-2011 at 03:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    [i]A man who called police and asked them to meet him in a Shreveport neighborhood had an array of weapons spread out ONthe trunk of his car. He's been arrested for possession of firearms in close proximity to an elementary school.
    If the report is accurate, I don't see the problem with the arrest. Is it not illegal to carry within 1000ft of a school zone? I understand OC is legal and backed by the State Constitution, but wouldn't you expect to be arrested if you OC'ed that close to a school, especially if you called the police on yourself?

    This isn't and OC or CC question as far as I can tell. The guy lays out weapons on, not in, his car and calls the cops to meet him in a school zone. Thus breaking the Federal "1000ft School Zone" Law and reporting himself for doing it. Unless this is a challenge to said law, I think this guy is an idiot. If it is a challenge, this is a terrible way of going about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    If the report is accurate, I don't see the problem with the arrest. Is it not illegal to carry within 1000ft of a school zone? I understand OC is legal and backed by the State Constitution, but wouldn't you expect to be arrested if you OC'ed that close to a school, especially if you called the police on yourself?
    You ask 2 questions in this paragraph... my answers are...

    1. Not according to state law
    2. Not that it has anything to do with a school zone, but if someone calls the police on themselves then there could be a reasonable expectation for arrest. Perhaps what he said on the phone call gave enough probable cause for the arrest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    This isn't and OC or CC question as far as I can tell. The guy lays out weapons on, not in, his car and calls the cops to meet him in a school zone. Thus breaking the Federal "1000ft School Zone" Law and reporting himself for doing it. Unless this is a challenge to said law, I think this guy is an idiot. If it is a challenge, this is a terrible way of going about it.
    BTW - If we are not UNLOADING our firearms everytime we drive through a fed firearms free school zone, then we are breaking federal law often.

    I agree... he SEEMS to be an idiot.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 02-23-2011 at 03:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    You ask 2 questions in this paragraph... my answers are...

    1. Not according to state law
    2. Not that it has anything to do with a school zone, but if someone calls the police on themselves then there could be a reasonable expectation for arrest. Perhaps what he said on the phone call gave enough probable cause for the arrest.
    Thank you for answering, but would you or would you not expect to be arrested. Knowing what you know about the law, do you really think if an officer wouldn't arrest you if you had a variety of weapons spread out on the trunk of your car, especially if you were within a 1000ft of a school zone? Even if you didn't call the cops and he was just a "beat cop" who happened upon you, I would have to think anyone in this situation would be arrested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    READ the statute... 14:95.2(C)(5) does not REQUIRE that the firearm be entirely enclosed in the vehicle... it specifically states:
    (5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.
    Do you see that??? ANY constitutionally protected activity... possessing a firearm openly is in fact constituionally protected.
    I saw that as well. For me, that settles the legality of unlicensed OC in a school zone.

    As for whether it settles the matter for the police and prosecutors and judges and politicians....

    Let's hope the guy, if convicted, either doesn't appeal, or fights it all the way. If convicted and he loses an appeal it sets a precedent that we don't want.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 02-23-2011 at 03:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    Thank you for answering, but would you or would you not expect to be arrested. Knowing what you know about the law, do you really think if an officer wouldn't arrest you if you had a variety of weapons spread out on the trunk of your car, especially if you were within a 1000ft of a school zone? Even if you didn't call the cops and he was just a "beat cop" who happened upon you, I would have to think anyone in this situation would be arrested.
    Knowing about the law doesn't mean that I can tell you what an LEO will do... I've never walked that road.

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    I know you guys are getting ready for Mardi Gras....but the real question is: why the hell did he call the cops in the first place and choose that location to meet them?

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    I live in Shreveport and tried to find contact info for Mr. John Wiese but could not locate him. From reading the comments to the initially posted story, it appears that Mr. Wiese may have a few "issues" and not be the best horse to bet on in this particular race though. I will be glad to push this further on my end should more info become available and am surprised at the knowledgeable responses posted in the comments matching some here!
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