Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill Introduced

  1. #1
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273

    National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill Introduced

    http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=6...okSocial022211

    Anyone heard more about this? Looks like they want to propose a national standard which would allow true nationwide CCW reciprocity. I can see that being very good or very bad.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    What they are doing is getting more people to consent,
    to the infringement of their right to bear arms.
    If you sign an application for a permit, you are then consenting to a contract.
    Why except a privilege in place of a right.
    The right was there before the Constitution was written,
    and they have no authority to stop you.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  3. #3
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273
    According to your profile, you're in Alaska, which last time I checked has constitutional carry. We do not enjoy such a privilege in Maine or the majority of the US for that matter.

    I'm an idealist. I would like a national return to constitutional carry. However, I'm also enough of a realist to know I won't accomplish that if I'm sitting in jail for violating gun laws. Whether the authority of a police officer to arrest you for CC without a permit is constitutionally legitimate, it is quite real. Alex Clendenning found that out last month.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    I am wintering in Maine.

    I stand on my rights.

    Hale V Henkel (1906)
    The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the state or to his neighbors to divulge his business, or to open his doors to an investigation, so far as it may tend to incriminate him. He owes no such duty to the state, since he receives nothing therefrom, beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the state, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself, and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    I am wintering in Maine.

    I stand on my rights.

    Hale V Henkel (1906)
    The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the state or to his neighbors to divulge his business, or to open his doors to an investigation, so far as it may tend to incriminate him. He owes no such duty to the state, since he receives nothing therefrom, beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the state, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself, and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights.
    Stand on your rights all you want, if you carry concealed without a permit and get found out, you will spend time in Jail. Enjoy it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Stand on your rights all you want, if you carry concealed without a permit and get found out, you will spend time in Jail. Enjoy it.
    Bingo.

    I get butch's point. A CCW permit is a contract regarding what should be a natural right. I agree. However, try using that defense in court.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    Do you guys not read this stuff...

    Maine Constitution
    Article I.
    Declaration of Rights
    .
    Section 1. Natural rights. All people are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

    Section 2. Power inherent in people. All power is inherent in the people; all free governments are founded in their authority and instituted for their benefit; they have therefore an unalienable and indefeasible right to institute government, and to alter, reform, or totally change the same, when their safety and happiness require it.

    Section 6-A. Discrimination against persons prohibited. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor be denied the equal protection of the laws, nor be denied the enjoyment of that person's civil rights or be discriminate

    Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.ed against in the exercise thereof.

    Looks to me like you don't care if you get walked on or not.

    Bangor police has an interesting web site.

    Bangor , Maine Incorporated in 1791...That makes them a Municipal Corporation.
    The Police are agents of a Corporation that take an Oath to uphold your Constitutional Rights.

    If you don't force them to obey the Law then to bad.

    I refuse to be a sheep.
    Last edited by Butch00; 02-23-2011 at 03:45 PM.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  8. #8
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    Do you guys not read this stuff...

    Maine Constitution
    Article I.
    Declaration of Rights
    .
    Section 1. Natural rights. All people are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

    Section 2. Power inherent in people. All power is inherent in the people; all free governments are founded in their authority and instituted for their benefit; they have therefore an unalienable and indefeasible right to institute government, and to alter, reform, or totally change the same, when their safety and happiness require it.

    Section 6-A. Discrimination against persons prohibited. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor be denied the equal protection of the laws, nor be denied the enjoyment of that person's civil rights or be discriminate

    Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.ed against in the exercise thereof.

    Looks to me like you don't care if you get walked on or not.

    Bangor police has an interesting web site.

    Bangor , Maine Incorporated in 1791...That makes them a Municipal Corporation.
    The Police are agents of a Corporation that take an Oath to uphold your Constitutional Rights.

    If you don't force them to obey the Law then to bad.

    I refuse to be a sheep.
    No one who comments regularly in this forum is ignorant of constitutional law, bylaw, case history, or interpretation. Yes, I've read it. Yes, I agree with your interpretation. No, the rest of the country does not. Are you even reading what I'm saying? For that matter, "if you refuse to be a sheep", why don't I see you martyring yourself in court for the sake of upholding your constitutional rights? Enough with the internet tough guy routine.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    Most likely you won't see me in court.....Court
    has been set up to give you the allusion of justice,
    costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time.
    I will use civil process against the Corporate Agents
    personally.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  10. #10
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    Most likely you won't see me in court.....Court
    has been set up to give you the allusion of justice,
    costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time.
    I will use civil process against the Corporate Agents
    personally.
    That's funny, because that sounds an awful lot like what we've been doing for the last year. So much for not caring if we get walked on or not. Good day, sir.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  11. #11
    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    south portland, Maine, USA
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by ep0k View Post
    http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=6...okSocial022211

    Anyone heard more about this? Looks like they want to propose a national standard which would allow true nationwide CCW reciprocity. I can see that being very good or very bad.
    sounds good to me!!!

    xd-over

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    Most likely you won't see me in court.....Court
    has been set up to give you the allusion of justice,
    costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time.
    I will use civil process against the Corporate Agents
    personally.
    So you refuse to use the courts? Okay, let me know how well that goes when you're arrested for concealed carry without a permit. How do you expect to avoid the arrest? By convincing the police that the law is unconstitutional? Yeah, good luck man. Make sure you do not associate yourself with MOCA if you choose the path of CCing without a permit as we support changing the laws, not breaking them on principle.

    Also, a law is not unenforceable until it is declared to be unconstitutional by a judge. They WILL enforce the law if you are caught, as well they should.
    Last edited by boyscout399; 02-23-2011 at 06:19 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    So you refuse to use the courts? Okay, let me know how well that goes when you're arrested for concealed carry without a permit. How do you expect to avoid the arrest? By convincing the police that the law is unconstitutional? Yeah, good luck man. Make sure you do not associate yourself with MOCA if you choose the path of CCing without a permit as we support changing the laws, not breaking them on principle.
    That would be another bingo.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    A Law that violates the Constitution is no LAW.

    Until you understand Corporations and Civil Remedy's
    It will do me no good to say anything more.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  15. #15
    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wiscasset, Maine, USA
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    A Law that violates the Constitution is no LAW.

    Until you understand Corporations and Civil Remedy's
    It will do me no good to say anything more.
    How about saying something substantive instead of coming off like a crank with a poor understanding of grammar, punctuation, and reality? Arguing with you is like talking to a broken record.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Freeport, Maine, United States
    Posts
    667
    This is an interesting argument, one that really shouldn't be happening on the forums but regardless. Butch is correct in our ideology that the constitution is our right to carry. Of course, this must be fought before a judge, or changed in the house/senate yada yada. Until this happens you will be arrested for breaking the law, because that is the current law. Whether it is right or not doesn't really matter unless you do something to change it.

    Although I do believe that permitting is unconstitutional I also know that I am not a lawyer. I have approached many lawyers, including Alan Gura and I haven't found one yet that thinks they can effectively argue that permitting is unconstitutional. In life, it's not simply opinion that makes things right and wrong... as in this case it's written in a very old document. A document that many people interpret very differently.

    This wouldn't be the case if the founding fathers were alive today, but alas they are not with us anymore so we only have their words to go off of. And like anything, when you only have letters, memoirs etc. to determine the true meaning of the constitution some people among us will choose to omit what they do not like. Whether this is right or not is irrelevant, it's the society we live in. All we can do is fight to change this.

  17. #17
    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    south portland, Maine, USA
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by shanebelanger View Post
    This is an interesting argument, one that really shouldn't be happening on the forums but regardless. Butch is correct in our ideology that the constitution is our right to carry. Of course, this must be fought before a judge, or changed in the house/senate yada yada. Until this happens you will be arrested for breaking the law, because that is the current law. Whether it is right or not doesn't really matter unless you do something to change it.

    Although I do believe that permitting is unconstitutional I also know that I am not a lawyer. I have approached many lawyers, including Alan Gura and I haven't found one yet that thinks they can effectively argue that permitting is unconstitutional. In life, it's not simply opinion that makes things right and wrong... as in this case it's written in a very old document. A document that many people interpret very differently.

    This wouldn't be the case if the founding fathers were alive today, but alas they are not with us anymore so we only have their words to go off of. And like anything, when you only have letters, memoirs etc. to determine the true meaning of the constitution some people among us will choose to omit what they do not like. Whether this is right or not is irrelevant, it's the society we live in. All we can do is fight to change this.
    right on!!!

    xd-over

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    A Law that violates the Constitution is no LAW.

    Until you understand Corporations and Civil Remedy's
    It will do me no good to say anything more.
    that will not stop them from arresting you and throwing you in jail and you spending time in jail, get fired from your job, spend lots of money in attorney's fees ect.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Harrison
    Posts
    463
    This legislation failed by one single vote in the US Senate in 2009.
    Paul J. Mattson
    NRA Certified Instructor / RSO
    #63731855
    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •