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Open Carry *MAY* already be legal - An Assignment

hrdware

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
First off, IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

Second, IANAL

Background:

HB 1400 is the bill that would "allow" open carry in the state of OK.

HB 1400 would modify Title 21 Section 1289.6 (Conditions under which firearms may be carried) to include the following reason why people could openly carry a loaded or unloaded firearm:

When carried in a holster that is wholly or partially visible or in a scabbard or case designed for carrying firearms that is wholly or partially visible and the person is eighteen (18) years of age or older; or

There is already language in this section of code that states:

For any legitimate purpose not in violation of the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title or any legislative enactment regarding the use, ownership and control of firearms.

Now, since Title 21 starts off my saying
The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary for the safe and lawful use of firearms to curb and prevent crime wherein weapons are used by enacting legislation having the purpose of controlling the use of firearms, and of prevention of their use, without unnecessarily denying their lawful use in defense of life, home and property, and their use by the United States or state military organizations and as may otherwise be provided by law, including their use and transportation for lawful purposes.

I then submit that since the legislature of the state notes the lawful use of firearms in defense of life, home and property, then that must make it a legitimate purpose. Therefore open carry under 1289.6 is already legal due to defense of life, home, and property begin legitimate.

I am going to send my thoughts on this to the representative who authored HB1400. I think all that needs to be done is to define the word "open" as it relates to section 1289.6. It seems to me that is all that the amendment is really doing anyway.

Now, the assignment.

I would like each person to contact local law enforcement and ask them what would happen to a person openly carrying a holstered pistol. Ask what code or statute they may be cited under and post the answer here.

After I hear back or talk to the author of this bill, I will post what he says.

Once again IANAL
 
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hrdware

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
So I contacted the City Attorney who directed me to contact the District Attorney's office. While talking to an Assistant City Attorney, he told me open carry was illegal. I asked him what statute it violated. He said, I don't know, but we arrest people for it all the time. Then he told me if I Googled it, I could probably find it. :banghead:

I called the DA's office, left a message, no return call. I called OSBI for a different reason and ended up talking to someone in their legal department who told me it would be up to each DA's office on how broad or narrow they interpreted "any other legitimate purpose".
 
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JBURGII

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I have an ADA as a customer, I will run this past him for an opinion soon. I also have Sheriff Deputies in here all the time, I have had discussions with them a number of times, always with a pro carry stance.
 

JBURGII

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Aug 9, 2008
Messages
612
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So I contacted the City Attorney who directed me to contact the District Attorney's office. While talking to an Assistant City Attorney, he told me open carry was illegal. I asked him what statute it violated. He said, I don't know, but we arrest people for it all the time. Then he told me if I Googled it, I could probably find it. :banghead:

I called the DA's office, left a message, no return call. I called OSBI for a different reason and ended up talking to someone in their legal department who told me it would be up to each DA's office on how broad or narrow they interpreted "any other legitimate purpose".

I had a chat with an ADA here and his preliminary position was that there is merit to the idea that open carry may already be argued as legal. He wants a report from me which they can follow up on and possibly push on to the AG's office for a ruling.

This may be redundant with the passage of the open carry bill, thoughts?
 

hrdware

Regular Member
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Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
I had a chat with an ADA here and his preliminary position was that there is merit to the idea that open carry may already be argued as legal. He wants a report from me which they can follow up on and possibly push on to the AG's office for a ruling.

This may be redundant with the passage of the open carry bill, thoughts?

I don't see OC passing this session due to all the strong arm techniques and backroom politics going on at the capital. The closes thing we may get is Rep Tibbs Legislative referendum going to a vote of the people. If it passes we would get concealed with an open option in 2013.

I would say write the report. If I can help in anyway let me know.
 

JBURGII

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I don't see OC passing this session due to all the strong arm techniques and backroom politics going on at the capital. The closes thing we may get is Rep Tibbs Legislative referendum going to a vote of the people. If it passes we would get concealed with an open option in 2013.

I would say write the report. If I can help in anyway let me know.

I will certainly keep you updated, I have strong support from local law enforcement and DA's office, I will do a bit more research and start writing a rough draft this week.
 

hrdware

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
I will certainly keep you updated, I have strong support from local law enforcement and DA's office, I will do a bit more research and start writing a rough draft this week.

Good deal!! :banana: Glad to hear the local DA agrees with these thoughts.
 

hrdware

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
I will certainly keep you updated, I have strong support from local law enforcement and DA's office, I will do a bit more research and start writing a rough draft this week.

Oh and when you get this done, if you could post it that would be great.

Also if it goes to the AG and comes back in our favor, I would love to get a copy of the ruling so I can show a few Reps at the capital and see what they have to say about it. Maybe find a way to get an OC rally or something set up, or at least get the word out.
 

JBURGII

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Oh and when you get this done, if you could post it that would be great.

Also if it goes to the AG and comes back in our favor, I would love to get a copy of the ruling so I can show a few Reps at the capital and see what they have to say about it. Maybe find a way to get an OC rally or something set up, or at least get the word out.

Anything I get will be posted asap, I am gathering some information at the moment and will be working with my ADA and other LEO who I hope will add some weight behind the opinion.
 

hrdware

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
I too am wondering if there's been any word on this.

I was in contact with JBURGII a week or so ago and he is still working on finalizing his letter/report to send to the AG. He mentioned that speaking with the ADA and some other lawyers in the same building, they seemed to think it would be legal.

JBURGII may have more to add, but that is the last I had heard about it.
 

JBURGII

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Aug 9, 2008
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I was in contact with JBURGII a week or so ago and he is still working on finalizing his letter/report to send to the AG. He mentioned that speaking with the ADA and some other lawyers in the same building, they seemed to think it would be legal.

JBURGII may have more to add, but that is the last I had heard about it.

Hey guys, I have been waiting to get a consensus from a group of legal minds (ADA, lawyers, etc..) and possibly written statements to follow the query to the AGs office. I had been waiting to get an idea whether OC would pass before I submit this but it seems to be a good idea regardless. I will get on it this following week and get it sent. Sorry to keep ya'll hanging, it has been a very busy season for advocates!
 

Aknazer

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Mar 6, 2011
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California
JBURGII I might be able to talk with Rep. Martin, would you like me to pass this info on to him or would you rather wait?

EDIT: Nevermind it doesn't matter as I've talked with him already and he said its dead for the year.
 
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Aknazer

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California
Has anyone heard from JBURGII on any progress dealing with this? It's been almost three weeks since he last posted and I'm curious!
 

Aknazer

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Mar 6, 2011
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1,760
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California
Well I ended up asking an officer who was in the BX on base about this (he was retired military and works for a local PD now and I brought this up while talking about gun safes). He said that it would be a misdemenor to OC, but if you have a CWP it would then be a felony. When I asked him what you would be charged with he couldn't answer and spoke gibberish (basically started tripping over his words trying to come up with something and it sounded along the lines that citizens simply shouldn't). I then asked him what part of the law one would be violating if they were to OC and he again couldn't answer me. When I brought up the OC law that stalled he stated that the issue police have with that law is that ANYONE could OC should that law pass and they didn't like that because it meant that if mister mentally unstable man bought a gun from a private source (since by him an FFL would deny him the sale but a private source wouldn't) that it would be legal for him to carry it and there would be nothing they could do about it. Also he seemed to try and mention something about how cops should be able to check people out to make sure they can legally carry. Finally I brought up the info in this thread (just about the exceptions bullet and legislature finding having a gun for self defense being reasonable; not about the work to get OC ruled already legal) and he said that there's already case law in the state that says the courts don't find OC for self defense as legal.

Overall I think he was uninformed and was just spouting things off to try and sound official while trying to promote an anti-OC view. I think that's why he was unable to give me ANY info on what laws you would be breaking or any actual cases (he just said they were out there), but I figured I would report back here what I had been told. Sadly I'm not quite sure which station he works for but it sounded like he said MPD. I wish I would have tried to correct him on a couple of points, but my speaking skills need work; especially in dealing with people such as him that require you to be more assertive in order to even get a word in edgewise.
 
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Tbox

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Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
4
Location
Tecumseh, Ok
Curious

Hey guys. New to the site. Found it looking for information on concealed carry in Ok. I am taking my class Saturday. I was curious if anything else has been done. I would love to see open carry in Ok. I think it is awesome that you guys are taking measures to get something done.
 

Aknazer

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Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
There hasn't been any word in about two months now. I'm thinking of doing some research and making some contacts soon on the subject if there isn't any word by the middle of the month.
 

drpepper122088

New member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
1
Location
Oklahoma
I would love to see open carry in OK. If anyone needs help with this let me know and I will do what I can. I understand that a bill was just passed concerning this and allowing open carry to those who have filed an emergency restraining order or have already filed a restraining order, but everything else was ripped out. I can't wait each year to see about this coming back up. I also know the new gov. of OK is for open carry, too bad the house and senate usually have issues with this.
 
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