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Open Carry *MAY* already be legal - An Assignment

nobama

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Mar 19, 2009
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Hi folks, I dont live in OK,but would love to see you guys be able to OC. My question is. Does your gun laws specificaly state that you cant OC? if it does not then why would it not be legal? up here in NC,our laws dont say OC,it just says where we CANT carry. CC is another set of laws, so OC IS legal here, but there are some people that want to see it in writing first before they get the guts to do it. Laws usually dont tell you what you can do,just what you cant do. Just my 2c. Good luck .
 

hrdware

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Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
Hi folks, I dont live in OK,but would love to see you guys be able to OC. My question is. Does your gun laws specificaly state that you cant OC? if it does not then why would it not be legal? up here in NC,our laws dont say OC,it just says where we CANT carry. CC is another set of laws, so OC IS legal here, but there are some people that want to see it in writing first before they get the guts to do it. Laws usually dont tell you what you can do,just what you cant do. Just my 2c. Good luck .

Oklahoma law specifically prohibits open carry. It then lists several exceptions to the law, but OC for the sake of OC isn't one of those exceptions. Legitimate purpose is an exception, and part of the law legitimizes protection of home, life, property. We have been told it is illegal for so long that no one has the time or money to try to push it through in court.
 

okboomer

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Oct 18, 2009
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1,164
Location
Oklahoma, USA
IMHO most of the opposition is coming from the past AG (Edmundson) DAs and Sheriffs in metro areas, and IIRC the bill was killed partly from the fact that you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun in Oklahoma. As I understand it, the age in the bill is being adjusted for it's next debut and Gov. Fallin and AG Pruitt are working to change the other attitudes.

As for the LEO claiming that a prohibited person (mental illness) could purchase a gun through a private sale and then be able to carry legally is complete HORSE HOCKEY! If you as a private citizen sell a gun to a prohibited person, then you are liable for the sale, even though you didn't have to go through FFL. If a prohibited person acquires a gun, no matter how (inheritance?), prohibited is prohibited and it is your responsibility to know the applicable law. The LEO attitude certainly makes me think that it is a case of "You aren't a LEO, so you shouldn't be allowed to carry openly, only us." This speaks clearly to the training/instruction they are receiving through CLEET.

One statistic I would like to see included in the Annual Crime Report is how many weapons used in shootings state wide are legally owned, and how many are illegal, and of the persons who commit gun crimes, how many were prohibited before they committed the gun crime. I have already contacted my State Rep to see if he can get those breakouts included. His opinion is, "probably not this year." But he is pro-open carry and will continue to work on acquiring these stats.

I have bought several guns through private sales in which we went to his local gun dealer and did the transfer there. The only guns I have bought through private sales that didn't get transferred through a FFL was guns that were never in the registry.

Basically, if you have bought a gun since the recording of sales (1970's?), and you sell that gun, you should consider transferring it through a FFL. That way, if the gun later becomes involved in a crime, you have documentation that you were not the one to pass the gun to the criminal. It is also a good test of the legitimacy of the buyer.

It may be time to start organizing some empty-holster gatherings ... but 150miles one way is a bit of a drive for us.
 

gprod55

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Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
141
Location
Little Axe, Oklahoma
Excellent Idea

OKBoomer has the right idea. All of us that have CLW's and are members here should consider garnering like people in our own areas to start carrying empty holsters in public. This is not to say that you should leave your weapons at home but to still carry concealed with an extra holster thats exposed and empty. This would not only show support for open carry but also start to change the public attitude towards open carry. Be prepared to answer any and all questions that will be forthcoming from the sheeple and be prepared to answer any questions from law enforcement as this is a must identify state when approached by LE. This will also give us an idea of what areas we as a group need to work on to change attitudes of the sheeple and make it easier when the time comes (hopefully soon) to openly carry. Exposure is a great way to provide necessary information to the people who don't know about their rights to defend themselves.
Git her done Oklahoma
 

hrdware

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Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
Did anyone ever ask for or obtain an opinion from the State AG on the current legality of OC under the "legitimate purpose" exception?

JBURGII was working on this. Haven't seen him on in a while so I'll send him a PM and see how it's going.
 

JBURGII

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Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
612
Location
A, A
Hello everyone,

My apologies for the disappearing act, personal circumstances have kept me from following up on this issue. My access to specific individuals who were interested in helping me with this was terminated abruptly and left me basically at square one.

I am in the middle of restructuring my personal life and am again jumping into the fray..

Rev Jim
 

hrdware

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Moore, OK
Hello everyone,

My apologies for the disappearing act, personal circumstances have kept me from following up on this issue. My access to specific individuals who were interested in helping me with this was terminated abruptly and left me basically at square one.

I am in the middle of restructuring my personal life and am again jumping into the fray..

Rev Jim

Ahhh....Real life strikes again!!! No worries, it happens to us all.

Welcome back sir.
 

JBURGII

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Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
612
Location
A, A
Ahhh....Real life strikes again!!! No worries, it happens to us all.

Welcome back sir.

Thank you, it is good to be 'back'! I have tried to keep up on everything and have been trying to get back into this particular issue specifically..
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
OK state constitution:

Section II-26: Bearing arms - Carrying weapons.
The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his
home, person, or property
, or in aid of the civil power, when
thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but
nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from
regulating the carrying of weapons.

So, your state constitution says you can carry. However, the legislature (I would guess this means local entities cannot regulate, as they are not the legislature) can regulate your carry.

That being said: Is there anything in the law that SPECIFICALLY says you CANNOT OC?

Remember, that which is not specifically prohibited, is allowed in English law.

Are there going to be governmental entities that object? Obviously, otherwise your rep would have not written a bill specifically allowing OC. Problem..Just lke ID in 1908, some poor sucker is going to need to walk the legal gauntlet so the OK state supreme court tells these legal entities, the state constitution says what it says...

I am not a lawyer, I am not a resident of OK, but in our state (WA) we OC under the state constitution's authority, not a specific law. See WA constitution, Artical I section 24.
 
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Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Title 21 Section 1272 specifically outlaws the carrying of a gun (and other weapons) regardless of if it is concealed or unconcealed. Section 1290 is the permit section and in there (I don't have time to find the exact part) it exempts/valid defense you from the CC portion of 1272 if you have a permit.
 

MM_45

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
67
Location
Duncan, Oklahoma, USA
Title 21, Ch.53 section 1289.6 allows open carry under certain circumstances.

. A person shall be permitted to carry loaded and unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, open and not concealed and without a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, pursuant to the following conditions:

1. When hunting animals or fowl;

2. During competition in or practicing in a safety or hunter safety class, target shooting, skeet, trap or other recognized sporting events;

3. During participation in or in preparation for a military function of the state military forces to be defined as the Oklahoma Army or Air National Guard, Federal Military Reserve and active military forces;

4. During participation in or in preparation for a recognized police function of either a municipal, county or state government as functioning police officials;

5. During a practice for or a performance for entertainment purposes; or

6. For any legitimate purpose not in violation of the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title or any legislative enactment regarding the use, ownership and control of firearms.

B. A person shall be permitted to carry unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, open and not concealed and without a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act pursuant to the following conditions:

1. When going to or from the person's private residence or vehicle or a vehicle in which the person is riding as a passenger to a place designated or authorized for firearms repairs or reconditioning, or for firearms trade, sale, or barter, or gunsmith, or hunting animals or fowl, or hunter safety course, or target shooting, or skeet or trap shooting or any recognized firearms activity or event and while in such places; or

2. For any legitimate purpose not in violation of the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title.

C. The provisions of this section shall not be construed to prohibit educational or recreational activities, exhibitions, displays or shows involving the use or display of rifles, shotguns or pistols or other weapons if the activity is approved by the property owner and sponsor of the activity.
 

hermannr

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Mar 24, 2011
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Okanogan Highland
Title 21 Section 1272 specifically outlaws the carrying of a gun (and other weapons) regardless of if it is concealed or unconcealed. Section 1290 is the permit section and in there (I don't have time to find the exact part) it exempts/valid defense you from the CC portion of 1272 if you have a permit.

On face value, Title 21 Section 1272 is very specifically unconstitutional...I mean OK state constitution here: The state constitution specifically states that the citizens of the state have the right to bear arms for their personal protection. Title 21 section 1272 is in direct conflict with your state constitution.

I suspect if someone took this law to court, you would receive summery judgement.

I also noticed in 1289 there is specific provision "lawful purpose" clause (A(6)) I do not see where OK does not already have OC.
 
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Aknazer

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Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
On face value, Title 21 Section 1272 is very specifically unconstitutional...I mean OK state constitution here: The state constitution specifically states that the citizens of the state have the right to bear arms for their personal protection. Title 21 section 1272 is in direct conflict with your state constitution.

I suspect if someone took this law to court, you would receive summery judgement.

I also noticed in 1289 there is specific provision "lawful purpose" clause (A(6)) I do not see where OK does not already have OC.

OC for self defense has not been declared a "lawful purpose" and as such one could still be tried until there is precedence for it. There's also the issue that they can argue much like in CA that the right to "bear" arms isn't "prohibited" since you can still get a CC license (and it's a shall issue state) and that you can even OC under specific situations. I'm not saying that I agree with this, but that this is likely to be the state's arguement for why their ban on OC is legal even though the state constitution states that it can't be prohibited for SD.

Also I know that I don't have the funds to fight it, and I can't afford to attempt to OC and then challenge it in court when I get arrested. And that's the other issue, finding the right case and right lawyer to fight the law since it wasn't challenged when it first went into effect.
 

hermannr

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Okanogan Highland
OC for self defense has not been declared a "lawful purpose" and as such one could still be tried until there is precedence for it. There's also the issue that they can argue much like in CA that the right to "bear" arms isn't "prohibited" since you can still get a CC license (and it's a shall issue state) and that you can even OC under specific situations. I'm not saying that I agree with this, but that this is likely to be the state's arguement for why their ban on OC is legal even though the state constitution states that it can't be prohibited for SD.

Also I know that I don't have the funds to fight it, and I can't afford to attempt to OC and then challenge it in court when I get arrested. And that's the other issue, finding the right case and right lawyer to fight the law since it wasn't challenged when it first went into effect.

I know that here (WA) and in ID we have the constitutional right to carry for self protection, as OK does, but neither of our constitutions have the part that specifically allows the legislature to regulate.

Maybe that is why both ID and WA have basically unrestricted, no permit necessary, OC, and shall issue concealed (and have had for a very long time) I know ID had their laws tested in court back in 1908, I'm not sure when we had a court test in WA but the first firearm law ever here was in 1935, with a major revision in 1961 (that is where the present shall issue Concealed Permit came into being,) I also know there are some or our firearm's law here that, if tested in court, would also fail, but they are newer, like 1994. Our ability to OC is based on the state constitution, not any old law passed by the legislature.
 

Jack House

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Jun 12, 2010
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I80, USA
Oklahoma already has legal OC. Self defense has been declared legal by your constitution. Therefore, OCing for self defense must be ruled legal.

Posted using my HTC Evo
 
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