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Is carrying a compensated gun a bad idea?

peter nap

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I would have to partially disagree with you here. There are logical arguments in favor of a compensated gun for carry, just like there are logical arguments against it. Ultimately, it needs to fall to the individual to decide whether or not it is worth carrying.

For example, I have a friend who pocket carries a Diamondback DB380C (subcompact 380 ACP with a compensated barrel, although he also has an uncompensated barrel for it) as his BUG/casual carry firearm. (His standard carry gun is a 3.5" 1911.) Even though it's a weaker round, because the gun is so small, the compensated barrel significantly aids in controlling the recoil. He's an experienced shooter (over 2 decades), and after testing the gun thoroughly, decided to use it with the compensated barrel.

This sort of decision is no different than anything else with choosing a carry gun. You need to evaluate the available options and choose the one that you are most comfortable with. Every carry gun has potential issues and risks associated with it. Rather than criticize someone for what they choose to carry, it is better to make sure that they understand both the potential benefits as well as accept the potential risks.

Currently, my wife is limited to carrying a 22 because that is all that we have that her current wardrobe will support (she's still wearing maternity clothes). She understands the risks associated with the smaller caliber, but views it as the best option for her current situation. (She's a better shot with a 45 than I am.)

If Terrence Holman understands the risks (such as potential damage to night vision) associated with carrying a compensated gun, and accepts those risks, then it is a perfectly acceptable option for him. It's really not our place to tell him he shouldn't do that.

That's completely true except for one thing. The OP is new to this and the people you mention are not. As you master the basics you can move into the more refined equipment fully realizing the benefits and liabilities.

MY EDC's are absolutely not for everyone and certainly not for beginners...but I've been shooting for 50 years and know what my specific needs and abilities are.
I also know the limits of my hardware and my training is geared to that.

MSC 45ACP is an experienced shooter and instructor, He's repeatedly offered to help new shooters and I hope some of them have taken him up on it.
 

grylnsmn

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That's completely true except for one thing. The OP is new to this and the people you mention are not. As you master the basics you can move into the more refined equipment fully realizing the benefits and liabilities.
Just because he's new to this doesn't mean that he is unable to understand both the benefits and risks that we present, and come to a reasoned decision on his own.

To use a somewhat personal analogy, I work in computer security. My primary job is to analyze risks that our systems face and present a variety of options for how to address those risks. My boss doesn't understand as much about the security side of things, but that doesn't stop him from being the one who has to make the final decisions on which options we actually implement. My job is to help him understand the benefits and risks so that he can make a better decision. It's not my place to make the decision for him, nor to tell him which decision he should make.
 

peter nap

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Just because he's new to this doesn't mean that he is unable to understand both the benefits and risks that we present, and come to a reasoned decision on his own.

To use a somewhat personal analogy, I work in computer security. My primary job is to analyze risks that our systems face and present a variety of options for how to address those risks. My boss doesn't understand as much about the security side of things, but that doesn't stop him from being the one who has to make the final decisions on which options we actually implement. My job is to help him understand the benefits and risks so that he can make a better decision. It's not my place to make the decision for him, nor to tell him which decision he should make.

I agree again......but again, HE Asked!

I didn't just see him on the street and say "Hey Dude...You'll shoot your eye out and grow hair on your palms using that thar race gun".:lol:
 

grylnsmn

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I agree again......but again, HE Asked!

I didn't just see him on the street and say "Hey Dude...You'll shoot your eye out and grow hair on your palms using that thar race gun".:lol:
Of course he won't shoot his eye out. What do you think it is? A Red Ryder BB gun?

I mean, I understand using hypothetical examples, but could you please try to make them at least a little believable? :lol:
 

epilogue

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He asked what do we think. That is a golden opportunity to educate him on both the benefits and risks. We should still leave drawing conclusions up to him.

Could have sworn we've each been telling him what we think. I don't believe anyone here can make him come to a conclusion without some sort of long range telepathy super power of persuasion. Free men make free choices. :)
 

slowfiveoh

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Everyone has their own personal decisions as to what to carry, and/or what is reasonable to carry.

My personal opinion is that the carry of a compensated firearm as a self-defense tool, is not optimal. There are a number of reasons that others have stated that are spot on.

The annotation about flash affecting vision at night is a critical one. Under duress sometimes follow up shots are necessary. When you can't see, you turn into a hazard wielding a poorly aimed firearm, and all of the compensation and other band-aids in the world, will not help you.

Preferably, the acquiring of universal firearms skill is the optimal target, and gaining a solid foundational experience that allows you to have good basic marksmanship fundamentals regardless weapon choice, should be the end goal.

This way, regardless of what you carry, you have the skill necessary to acquire and engage a risk to your life with instinctual, well aimed responses.
 

Marco

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Carry what you are confident and can shoot with, but understand its drawbacks and make sure you are comfortable with them too.

As someone that owns and has carried a comp firearm there are negatives and advantages, but Curtis nailed it.

As for the flash there are several ammo makers that produce miminal flash ammo, try several and see what works best and suits your defensive needs.
As Grapeshot pointed out, there's ammo out there that can/will effect your sight in a low light incident even if you're not using a comp'd gun.
Using a flashlight can also have an effect on your vision during a low light incident, be sure to learn how and when to use a flashlight for low lights encounters.

As for the hot gases, nothing is going to stop them except a non comp barrel.
Learning how to hold your gun properly (turning it slightly) when firing from a retention postion will need to be practiced, just like any skill.


This is not training or advise just what I know.


The beauty is, depending on what gun you have a simple barrel swamp can get you a non comp'd gun if you so desire.
 
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MSC 45ACP

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I've been told that carrying a gun at all means that I'm compensating for something. To which I reply of course, that if that were true I wouldn't be carrying a snubbie.

Peter Nap; Thank you for the comments.
We all know that opinions are like ( ) * ( )
Everyone has one and most of them smell funny.

I carry a Kimber Custom Ultra Crimson Carry II. I carry it because I'm old fashioned and have some old-fashioned thoughts about 'knockdown' power and shot placement. I carry a BUG (Ruger LCR-357) because even though I've NEVER had a failure with the Kimber (except during the 'break-in' period), I don't want to risk the lives of my family IF the Kimber should 'fart' and have a stovepipe. I heard about the "New York Reload" once and thought "That makes a lot of sense... I think I'll do that, too".

Some folks may call us paranoid, but we call ourselves 'prepared'. Its a good thing being a Boy Scout isn't a crime (yet).

Yeah, I'm compensating for something... As the YouTube video clearly stated, I'm "too old for an @$$whoopin" anymore. This is really a good one about "Why I carry a gun":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMFhNcAmLLI&feature=fvw

Carrying a compensated pistol may be a good idea
if you OC the beast in a quick-draw match holster and never go near any potential BGs or you happen to be a master of hand-to-hand combat (because those match holsters have ZERO retention qualities). The compensated pistols I've used also have many other cool 'bells and whistles' like red-dot scopes, extended beavertails, extended magazine releases, and extended slide stops. I can't imagine 'quick-drawing' one of those spaceguns from a concealed carry situation. Of course there are those that ONLY have a compensator and none of the rest of this stuff like an earlier poster mentioned. He justified someone carrying a compensated .380 and someone else carrying a .22. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into carrying those calibers before doing so. Of course carrying "something" is a heck of a lot better than carrying nothing. I hope I'm never put in the situation where I would have to carry a .380 or .22 or nothing. Of course I would carry one of them. I wouldn't feel comfortable, but I would do what needs doing.

I like to think most of us put a lot of thought on a daily basis about what we carry, why we carry and "what we would do if..." I know I am constantly evaluating my surroundings. Walking around in Condition Yellow can be tiresome, but I've managed to live this long, so I guess there may be something there.
 

grylnsmn

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Carrying a compensated pistol may be a good idea
if you OC the beast in a quick-draw match holster and never go near any potential BGs or you happen to be a master of hand-to-hand combat (because those match holsters have ZERO retention qualities). The compensated pistols I've used also have many other cool 'bells and whistles' like red-dot scopes, extended beavertails, extended magazine releases, and extended slide stops. I can't imagine 'quick-drawing' one of those spaceguns from a concealed carry situation. Of course there are those that ONLY have a compensator and none of the rest of this stuff like an earlier poster mentioned. He justified someone carrying a compensated .380 and someone else carrying a .22. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into carrying those calibers before doing so. Of course carrying "something" is a heck of a lot better than carrying nothing. I hope I'm never put in the situation where I would have to carry a .380 or .22 or nothing. Of course I would carry one of them. I wouldn't feel comfortable, but I would do what needs doing.
I was the one to mention them, but I think you're taking my comments a little out of context.

For example, the friend I mentioned who carries the compensated 380 uses it primarily as a BUG for pocket carry, not as a main carry gun. (The only exception to that is when he is in a situation where carrying his usual 45 wouldn't work out.) The specific gun he has is a Diamondback DB380C, which is identical to a standard DB380, except for the compensated barrel. It adds all of .25" to the length, and makes the gun more controllable for him. It doesn't have all of the bells and whistles that you describe.

As for the example of the person carrying the 22, that would be my wife. That is purely because of a lack of other options right now because she recently gave birth to our son. Until she is able to fit back into pants that use a belt, she isn't going to be able to carry one of our 45s, nor our 357. From what we have in our collection right now, that leaves only our Walther P22 pistol. (I've promised her a carry gun of her choice and even sold my AR to finance it, but she hasn't decided which one she wants yet. She's leaning towards a pocket-sized 9mm like the Kel-Tec PF-9, Kahr PM-9, or Kimber Solo.) Based on her current situation, she is using the best option available to her.

My point is that ultimately it is completely up to the individual to evaluate the available options within their own personal situation. Would I choose to carry a 22? No, but I have done so when it was the best option I had available (because my 45 was in the shop and I only had the two guns). Just because you would choose to do things differently doesn't mean that they aren't making the best decision for their circumstances.

That's why it really does boil down to what Curtis originally said (and I was trying to reinforce):
Curtis said:
Carry what you are confident and can shoot with, but understand its drawbacks and make sure you are comfortable with them too.
 
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MSC 45ACP

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Isn't that what I said, too?

I'm sure they put a lot of thought into carrying those calibers before doing so. Of course carrying "something" is a heck of a lot better than carrying nothing. I hope I'm never put in the situation where I would have to carry a .380 or .22 or nothing. Of course I would carry one of them. I wouldn't feel comfortable, but I would do what needs doing.

Nothing "out of context" at all. I agreed with you. If all I had was a .22, of course I would carry it. Same goes with the .380ACP. The LCR-357 isn't my primary, either. Not a fun gun to shoot. It will get the job done (I hope).

P.S. I like your "biblical" quote, but I couldn't find that particular chapter in my Bible. I guess I'm old fashioned there, too. Mine was written a few years before the 1850's.
 

grylnsmn

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P.S. I like your "biblical" quote, but I couldn't find that particular chapter in my Bible. I guess I'm old fashioned there, too. Mine was written a few years before the 1850's.

Mine was also written a few years before the 1850s. (The Book of Mormon was first published in 1830, and I use the KJV of the Bible that was first published in 1611.)

And that quote is about the clearest scriptural statement I've found on self defense. It's actually a large part of why Mormons tend to be fairly pro-RKBA (the other part being experiences in our collective history, particularly in Missouri). It's also part of what led John Moses Browning (yes, he was a Mormon, too) to design so many quality firearms. :D
 

Grapeshot

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Some one earlier mentioned our criticizing the OP's choice of gun - think it must have been edited out. He asked the question - we are only responding, not criticizing/attacking him.

Without guidelines/rules there can be no exceptions, but there are certain "rules" regarding what and how I carry to which I do not make exception. ymmv
 

tcmech

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I've been told that carrying a gun at all means that I'm compensating for something. To which I reply of course, that if that were true I wouldn't be carrying a snubbie.

That's why I do carry a snubbie.

If what you got is a compensated pistol thats what you carry. I don't personally own one but I have a 357 that will blind anyone who shoots it in low light situations.
 

user

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I was most gratified to see that there wasn't anyone saying, "But if you shoot someone using that fancy gun, the prosecutor will say that you had such a mean weapon precisely because you intended to kill someone." (The Massad Ayoob hypothesis). My response to that argument at your trial will be, "I'd have thought that was obvious ... the whole reason for having and carrying a defensive weapon is precisely for the purpose of killing another human being, if it should become necessary. And in this case, it did become necessary...."

As to the recoil/muzzle flash problems and the perceived need for second and subsequent shot accuracy, I have two observations: I generally recommend that people carry a revolver chambered in .38 special or a semiautomatic in 9mm Luger. Either has enough kinetic energy at fifty yards to crush human bone, and thus will work fine for "social work" at normal defensive range. Neither has enough flash/bang/recoil to be a serious problem, and I think they somewhat optimize the compromise between the command and control aspect and the effectiveness aspect. My second observation is that it would be good to practice sufficiently to be able to hit the target on the first shot, but if you can't or won't do that, then get a Glock - the lower mounting of the barrel results in a more directly rearward recoil, which Glock fans say improves one's chances at actually hitting the intended target on the second or subsequent shot. I still think that it's best to be effective on the first shot. Aiming aids help, such as nightsights, laser grips, etc.; I think the best thing is a combination of TFO TruGlo nightsights AND the CrimsonTrace Lasergrip (especially for home defense). Expensive, but the nightsights are good in any light and will give a pretty good initial sighting, while the laser is good for last split-second fine tuning (one should not turn the laser on too early, lest he risk becoming a target really quickly - ever watch how kids play "lasertag"?). Also, this "aim for the center of mass" thing is a line used on cops, who generally waste about eighty percent of the bullets they fire in emergency situations. I tell people to aim for a specific spot on the center of mass, the third button down on a button-down shirt, for example. (I think the lack of a specific point as a target is a contributing factor to people not being able to hit the broad side of a barn.)

So, I reckon I come down on the same side with the "no compensator" crowd. Keep that gun for fun and shooting sports. Get a Smith & Wesson model 64 revolver with a 4" barrel for social work; generally available used but in good condition for around four hundred bucks. Have a good gunsmith clean it up and polish up the action, decrease the weight of the trigger rebound and hammer springs; get a couple of speedloaders to carry with you, find grips in a size and texture that feel right to you (I do recommend the Lasergrips, though it's not worth thinking about nightsight - for that gun since there is no rear sight other than a channel along the top of the frame). That revolver was a marvel of modern engineering. And good quality .38 ammo is available everywhere.
 
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230therapy

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What make and model of gun is it?

It's possible to buy a non-ported barrel for many models. Just drop the new one in (after any fitting) and now you have a non-compensated gun. An example of this is changing a Glock 23C ported barrel for a standard Glock 23 barrel.
 

MSC 45ACP

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That's why I do carry a snubbie.

If what you got is a compensated pistol thats what you carry. I don't personally own one but I have a 357 that will blind anyone who shoots it in low light situations.

My BUG is a Ruger LCR-357. IF I carried full-load 357 mag rounds, it would look like a volcano eruption at midnight in low-light situations. It would also be most unpleasant to shoot. The first round would almost certainly be on target or close to it, but any follow-on shots would be anyone's guess. That's why I carry .38 self-defense rounds intended for short-barreled revolvers: Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point, Muzzle Velocity: 860 fps; Muzzle Energy: 222 ft. lbs.

I carry a 'mixed bag' of rounds in my .45 magazines: Hydrashoks, Golden Sabres and ball. I really appreciate the accuracy of the Kimber's 3" match-grade barrel. I was pleasantly suprised how well it shoots at the 25 yard line. I was horrified when I tried the same thing with the LCR. I thought there was something wrong with me. Have my eyes gone bad suddenly? Did I not keep my eyes on the front sight as the DAO hammer fell? Did I jerk the trigger? Have I finally misplaced the last of the marbles rolling around my skull? (Dale {Grapeshot}, don't answer that...)

The small difference in barrel length makes a HUGE difference. Who'd have thunk it? 1 7/8" vs. 3"... I wouldn't dream of using my Kimber with a 3" barrel in a leg match, but I certainly don't miss having to lube my pistol after every 10 rounds. I can't shoot competitively anymore due to medical reasons, but I certainly do miss the most beautiful pistol I've ever owned. It held "X" ring (shot 1" group) at the 50 yard line, even if I couldn't. THAT was an awesome shootin' iron. That match gun wasn't compensated because it was a Bullseye gun and comp's aren't allowed. It would be just as foolish to carry that extremely tight .45 as it would be to carry a space gun. Each gun would probably work if you needed it in a self-defense situation, but why take a chance? Why take a chance of getting 'gun crud' sprayed in your face at high velocity from a compensator? Why chance your sharp adjustable sights getting hung up on your holster?

Most of us do our best to carry the proper tool for the job. Some of us can't afford to buy the latest 'cool gun' or even 'the right gun' all the time. Before I heard about OC, I had a Texas CHL and carried a Ruger P90 in a fannypack. When the police 'took' my P90 when someone tried to carjack me in TX, all I had left were my match guns: A custom 1911 and a S&W Mod 41 HB (.22 cal). The Mod 41 didn't fit in the fanny pack, but the 45 did. Guess what I carried for 2 months while Pasadena PD kept my .45 for "the investigation"? Yep... a match-grade 1911 that needed to be lubed after every 10 rounds or it would lock up tighter than Obama's gang of birth certificate lawyers.

Another great reason for having a BUG.

Slightly Off Topic: IF you were to use your pistol in a self-defense situation, the police take the pistol you used to defend yourself. Do they also take your BUG if you are also carrying it at the time of the shooting?
 

curtiswr

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My BUG is a Ruger LCR-357. IF I carried full-load 357 mag rounds, it would look like a volcano eruption at midnight in low-light situations. It would also be most unpleasant to shoot. The first round would almost certainly be on target or close to it, but any follow-on shots would be anyone's guess. That's why I carry .38 self-defense rounds intended for short-barreled revolvers: Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point, Muzzle Velocity: 860 fps; Muzzle Energy: 222 ft. lbs.

I was thinking about ordering some of these in either 125 or 140gr for my LCR: http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=21

There is this though: "WARNING - shooting this ammo out of revolvers weighing less than 16 OZ. produces tremendous felt recoil. "

Good thing the LCR-357 is 17 ounces right? :lol: :uhoh:
 
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MSC 45ACP

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Curtis, I enjoy shooting. I truly enjoy shooting the Kimber. It has a wonderful trigger job and even with a 3" barrel and weighing in at 25 ounces, it doesn't have a lot of felt recoil.

Shooting REGULAR .38 "white box" range bullets with the LCR-357 isn't even fun. Even shooting 20 rounds of 'standard .38 rounds' stings my hand. I've shot full load .357's through it (just because I wanted to see what it felt like). Now that I've done that, I don't feel the need to do it again... ever. That would be like asking someone to swing a baseball bat and then trying to "catch" the bat mid-swing with my bare hand. It would sting a little. Actually, it would probably be more like swinging a wooden baseball bat at a brick wall without wearing gloves. It would probably sting a little.

I've shot .375 H&H mag 'polar bear' rifles used by the Coast Guard aboard ice breakers. Not too pleasant. I shot a British 20mm anti-tank 'gun'. Not much fun, either. I don't feel the need to proove myself to anyone anymore. During my quest for high honors in the arena of competitive shooting, I was shooting 1,000 rounds a week of A475 (military .45ACP ball) one-handed with a 1911. It caused damage to my shoulder, elbow, wrist and hand. I reached my goal, but sacrificed a lot.

These days, I'm willing to make small sacrifices as necessary to maintain preparedness. I can still shoot my .45 well enough to take care of most 'social issues' that come up (Thank you, User!). I'm interested in anything that will keep down muzzle flash and felt recoil while still dealing with these different 'social issues' even when they may require different quantities of soft metal compositions inserted at different velocities, depending on circumstances and situations. Every 'social issue' is different.
 
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