So I was reading about, and it seems to me the consensus here is that without a CPL, you may NOT carry anywhere that sells any kind of alcohol, so I can't legally open carry in Meijer without having a CPL? If this is true, it sucks. I plan to open carry a fair bit, but I sure hope I get my CPL soon. I do some OC right now, but I didn't realize I was on such a short leash, I thought the same PFZs applied to OC ad to concealed. Is there a resource listing all of the "OC PFZs"?
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Open carry in a Meijer?
- Thread starter SIGKzoo
- Start date
Bronson
Regular Member
MCL 750.234d
You not only cannot carry it in Meijer but you cannot carry it anywhere on their property. You cannot walk across the parking lot or cut across the lawn of any of the places listed above. There is some spirited debate on that but I tend to interpret grey areas in the law conservatively.
Oh, and they do not have to actually sell alcohol; they only need a license to do so.
You can use this link http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/ to do a county search of all liquor licenses.
So without a CPL your only choice is to seek permission from any place you frequent that would be included on the above list. I'd suggest getting any permissions in writing.
Bronson
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malignity
Regular Member
Bronson is correct.
Something else that may help you is the Open Carry Guide Project stickied at the top of the forum.
Something else that may help you is the Open Carry Guide Project stickied at the top of the forum.
eastmeyers
Regular Member
Welcome.
This should help.
Stickies are your friend!
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?69669-Open-Carry-Pocket-Cards
This should help.
Stickies are your friend!
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?69669-Open-Carry-Pocket-Cards
quarter horseman
Regular Member
Welcome to ocdo! carry on!
DanM
Regular Member
It's not just consensus here, it's the law.
SIGKzoo said:
If the Meijer has a liquor license, that is correct. Most, if not all, do. There's a handy link posted in a comment above for checking locations *before* you OC there. If you are in a situation where you can't check, err on the side of extreme caution. Assume any place that retails beverages or sells beverages with food includes alcohol in their stock of beverages and they have a liquor license.
SIGKzoo said:
That sounds like the opening line to the defense attorney you hire because you got busted due to not being prepared. Avoid that by reading the material here, asking questions, and I would recommend OC'ing first at an OC gathering or with your local experienced OC'ers.
Welcome aboard!
stainless1911
Banned
Yeah, my bad...
I even had this law bookmarked on the MSL website, I went head-first into my cpl so I had been looking at those laws lately and forgot about this one. I am such a blond sometimes. Here's hoping I get my cpl soon, though I'll still open carry. Thank you all for the warm welcomes.
I even had this law bookmarked on the MSL website, I went head-first into my cpl so I had been looking at those laws lately and forgot about this one. I am such a blond sometimes. Here's hoping I get my cpl soon, though I'll still open carry. Thank you all for the warm welcomes.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
A CPL holder can Open Carry in some of these zones. Look at the MSP update and there are two Attorney General opinions to back this up.
MCL 750.234d exempts a CPL from the places listed in .234d. They just have to OC.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf
750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
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dougwg
Regular Member
Please
Stop asking VERY basic questions that are answered in the sticky threads and GO READ THE STICKY THREADS....then read them again, and again.
Do your research first. Members of Michigan Open Carry and Open Carry Dot Org have made it very easy if you if you just ready the stickies.
Welcome to OCDO hope to meet you at one of the many gatherings we have.
DanM
Regular Member
Dude, seriously, it seems like it might be just a matter of time before you get yourself jammed up. You are OC'ing without a CPL, and you are demonstrating some significant lack of knowledge or misunderstandings of laws.
I'll reiterate my earlier suggestion, with more urgency: OC with a local OC gathering or experienced OC'er before you OC by yourself. I'll add a suggestion: ask those OC'ers you get with to let you know when they think you're good to go to OC solo.
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stainless1911
Banned
I would suggest meeting up with one of us in person to go over this with you. Doug can be abrasive, but he knows what he's talking about, and Dan is right, you need to learn a bit more about OC laws. Stay away from places that sell alcohol, stay out of pistol free areas, transport properly, and when in doubt, ASK.
smellslikemichigan
Campaign Veteran
doug is really a cuddly teddy bear
Ok...
Ok, so I'm sorry for coming across as a noob here. I promise I'm not really an idiot. I have read tons of info on the Michigan state police website and on the Michigan legislature website, and have many pages bookmarked, I have also completed my course required for my cpl. I have read plenty of conflicting info from official sources regarding cpl holders and "pistol free zones" I think it's a sketchy spot in the written law. I did skim through the stickied topics but none of the titles popped out to me for this, I suppose I should re-check them all each time I have a new question before posting it. I do plan on attending the dinner in Kalamazoo march 22, I think it is. I hope to meet some of you there.
Ok, so I'm sorry for coming across as a noob here. I promise I'm not really an idiot. I have read tons of info on the Michigan state police website and on the Michigan legislature website, and have many pages bookmarked, I have also completed my course required for my cpl. I have read plenty of conflicting info from official sources regarding cpl holders and "pistol free zones" I think it's a sketchy spot in the written law. I did skim through the stickied topics but none of the titles popped out to me for this, I suppose I should re-check them all each time I have a new question before posting it. I do plan on attending the dinner in Kalamazoo march 22, I think it is. I hope to meet some of you there.
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B
Bikenut
Guest
Hey SIGKzoo... Welcome!
Please don't be discouraged. We all started out dumber than a box of rocks about OC and had to learn all the ins and outs. But one thing we did learn really quickly is that the smallest goof up and the littlest misunderstanding of the law would have extremely serious consequences. And so we, just as you are now, read everything we could get our eyes on and asked as many questions as we could think of and didn't let nay sayers or grumpy folks keep us from keepin' on.
Again... Welcome!
Please don't be discouraged. We all started out dumber than a box of rocks about OC and had to learn all the ins and outs. But one thing we did learn really quickly is that the smallest goof up and the littlest misunderstanding of the law would have extremely serious consequences. And so we, just as you are now, read everything we could get our eyes on and asked as many questions as we could think of and didn't let nay sayers or grumpy folks keep us from keepin' on.
Again... Welcome!
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Well, we have been OCing in those sketchy spots for over three years. While many areas of law are open to interpretation, the consensus of many legal groups (Attorney General, MSP, Several PD around the state) is that you can OC in the places listed in .234d with a CPL.
Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002 in part… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.
AG opinion 7113 in part
...This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as "school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property." Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).
If a reserve officer qualifies as a peace officer, then the officer is exempt from the prohibition contained in sections 234d(1) and 237a(4) of the Penal Code concerning the possession of firearms on specified premises. If not, sections 234d(2)(c) and 237a(5)(c) of the Penal Code also exempt "[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon." A license issued by a county concealed weapon licensing board under section 5b(7) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act clearly satisfies the latter exemption. Thus, possession of such a license would enable a reserve police officer to carry an exposed, holstered pistol in the "gun free zones" described in sections 234d and 237a of the Penal Code.
It is my opinion, therefore, that a uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized "peace officer" or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.
Onnie
Regular Member
I rather see the same question asked 100 times then to have someone who does not know or understand the law get jammed up because he is afraid to ASK A DARN QUESTION because someone barked at him.
So you ago ahead and ask you questions, those who want to help will help, those who want to bark will bark!
The idea here is to educate those who want to OC not scare them away!
So you ago ahead and ask you questions, those who want to help will help, those who want to bark will bark!
The idea here is to educate those who want to OC not scare them away!
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dougwg
Regular Member
The point being is that he did NOT read AND UNDERSTAND all the sticky threads.
If he did, he wouldn't have asked the question.
I would hate to just answer people's 1 or 2 questions and have them think they then know all that is needed to know to OC without a CPL.
On one side we MUST stress the need to know the law inside and out because the downside can have life long repercussions.
I would much rather someone think me a jerk then have them go out and unknowingly commit a felony or even a misdemeanor.
I really do care about the welfare of my fellow gun owners and carriers.
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
I strongly agree. I have brought this up before on more than one occasion.
In the last year or so, I have PM'd some of the newbs to the site for just this reason.
Via PM, they stated they would NOT be back to such a bunch of "grumps". They have however been in contact with me by phone or PM and "learned" their way around the site without having to "ask" anymore.
With a "strongly" worded answer, why would they bother to ask any further, much less read anything on the site.
I for one didn't know a damn thing about a "sticky" until AFTER I was repeatedly accused of being a TROLL. So I fully understand how the OP and others, feel when "greeted" in such a manner.
As stated before; these are just the lowly opinions of an old fart. Take it for what it's worth.
JMO