View Poll Results: Should any REP. who flees should be charged?

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Thread: Wisc democrats can be charged with a felony for going into hiding.

  1. #1
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    Wisc democrats can be charged with a felony for going into hiding.

    946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

    946.12(1)
    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or

    946.12(3)
    (3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer's or employee's office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;
    Last edited by zack991; 02-25-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I voted even though the premise of the question is that they are breaking the law, and whether or not they should be charged.

    They are not breaking the law.

    You are pointing out the code and seem to be stating that they are breaking the law. So, I would like for you to describe why you think they are breaking the law, and some legal ruling to back it up.

    Has there ever been a congress-person (state or Federal) that has been charged with a felony for not being present to start proceedings? I should probably stick with any state congress-persons.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-25-2011 at 08:18 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  3. #3
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The difference would be the intent.

    Is this a Wisconson State law?

    Republicans were called the party of no.

    Looks like the Democrats are the party of don't show.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  4. #4
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Isn't there a law in WI that even if they break the law, they cannot be arrested while they are "in session" regardless of where they are at?

    I read something along those lines somewhere around. Maybe someone knows more.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The difference would be the intent.

    Is this a Wisconson State law?

    Republicans were called the party of no.

    Looks like the Democrats are the party of don't show.
    Republicans want people to believe that their constant "no's" are/were somehow different than not showing...it is the same freaking thing.

    The Governor is a tool IMO. He will be out next election...anyone want to bet lunch on it?
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-25-2011 at 10:39 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  6. #6
    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Republicans want people to believe that their constant "no's" are/were somehow different than not showing...it is the same freaking thing.

    The Governor is a tool IMO. He will be out next election...anyone want to bet lunch on it?
    A lot of people think that of him....and a lot agree with him. If he closes the budget gap and weakens the unions to help ensure the state financial future it will help everyone, be they union members or not.

    I hope other states/governors follow suit quickly and do the hard work to balance budgets and set us on a path to keep them balanced.

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    I wonder if he is going to be the same kind of tool with the public employees unions that Reagan was with PATCO. I hope so. I vote for and thoroughly support those kinds of tools. We need more of them to fix this mess.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Republicans want people to believe that their constant "no's" are/were somehow different than not showing...it is the same freaking thing.

    The Governor is a tool IMO. He will be out next election...anyone want to bet lunch on it?
    Admittedly, I am unsure what you are referring to with the constant "NOs", but I don't see how it could remotely be the same thing as leaving the state so that an official function cannot be accomplished.

    I don't pay any real attention to Wisconsin politics, and even my knowledge of the current situation is fairly basic. However, when an entire group of people leave the state to avoid a quorum, that appears to me to be the epitome of 946.12(1)
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I vote for and thoroughly support those kinds of tools. .

    You would.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  10. #10
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

    946.12(1)
    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or

    946.12(3)
    Sub (3) would not apply. Sub (1) has no relevance unless you can provide a statute which makes it mandatory (requirement by law) for a WI State Senator to attend a session. The fact is that there is none so Sub(1) does not apply in this case either.

    Only this weak language is found in the WI State Constitution...
    Article IV, 7
    Organization of legislature; quorum; compulsory attendance. Section 7. Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.
    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Isn't there a law in WI that even if they break the law, they cannot be arrested while they are "in session" regardless of where they are at?

    I read something along those lines somewhere around. Maybe someone knows more.
    This is also found there which makes it unpossible to arrest a Senator for not attending session...
    Article IV, 15
    Exemption from arrest and civil process. Section 15. Members of the legislature shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest; nor shall they be subject to any civil process, during the session of the legislature, nor for fifteen days next before the commencement and after the termination of each session.
    It is fortunate for them that this is in the Constitution as the Statute appears a little weaker...
    13.19 Arrest of officers. No officer of the senate or assembly,
    while in actual attendance upon the duties of that person’s
    office, shall be liable to arrest on civil process.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 02-26-2011 at 07:09 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I wonder if he is going to be the same kind of tool with the public employees unions that Reagan was with PATCO. I hope so. I vote for and thoroughly support those kinds of tools. We need more of them to fix this mess.
    The difference is that Teachers are not "State" employees and Walker does not have any authority over them. He can not fire teachers like Reagan fired ATCs.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    The difference is that Teachers are not "State" employees and Walker does not have any authority over them. He can not fire teachers like Reagan fired ATCs.
    I know the teachers here have to be part of their local Union, State Union and federal Union.

    The funds to pay them come from state property tax.

    Unionized public employees should be illegal in my thinking and the left's great socialist hero FDR thought the same thing.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    The difference is that Teachers are not "State" employees and Walker does not have any authority over them. He can not fire teachers like Reagan fired ATCs.
    If, as a result of not being able to pass a funding bill, the State stops sending money to local schools, then the local schools will have to do layoffs. If I am running the local school district, I handle part of the fiscal crisis by firing all the "sick" teachers for whom I have any evidence that they were, in reality, protesting in Madison. The rest of the short-fall should be handled by negotiating from a position of strength with the union: "Either we (the school district) lay off a bunch more of your teachers, or we (the union and us) negotiate a reasonable contract.) If possible, the whole teacher force should be Providenced.

    I say this being a former public and private school teacher for ten years. I can't abide how unions have coerced our local and state governments and private corporations into bankruptcy. It's about time these unions were stood up to!

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Republicans want people to believe that their constant "no's" are/were somehow different than not showing...it is the same freaking thing.

    The Governor is a tool IMO. He will be out next election...anyone want to bet lunch on it?
    No it isn't. When you vote "no" you show up to do it and there is a vote.

    When you can just leave and then there will be no vote it is very very different.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    All rhetoric aside, I love what is going on. There are differences there to be seen. Obvious to anyone who will look.

    Differences between these protesters and tea parties.

    Differences between these protesters and the Egyptian people.

    Differences between the way that Republicans in WI are pressing their agenda and how the Democrats pressed their agenda in Washington prior to this past election.

    I think folks are noticing. Let 'er rip!

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    My neighbor and his wife are teachers, they hate having to pay $2000.00 a year from their family budget to be able to teach. (Forced to join the unions)

    They dislike that the money is directed into politics they don't agree with.
    They dislike the fact the union often will tie teachers hands to create the illusion we need more tax money to hire more teachers, (rules about what teacher aids can do).
    They dislike the fact they are not answerable to parents but to bureaucrats and union bosses.

    They hope that what is happening in Wisconsin and New Jersey spreads to other states but are doubtful it will.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member metalman383's Avatar
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    Federal employees are not given collective bargaining rights. Why should state employees?

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalman383 View Post
    Federal employees are not given collective bargaining rights. Why should state employees?
    I like how they keep saying "collective bargaining rights".....I have not found that anywhere in the constitution.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    Governor Walker is going about dealing with those lamers in the wrong way. As I understand it, if a elected official fails to show up and do the job that they were elected to do, their seat can be declared vacant due to abandonment. Then the Governor can appoint another person to fill that seat/position.

    Something to think about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck View Post
    ...As I understand it, if a elected official fails to show up and do the job that they were elected to do, their seat can be declared vacant due to abandonment. Then the Governor can appoint another person to fill that seat/position...
    Cite?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck View Post
    Governor Walker is going about dealing with those lamers in the wrong way. As I understand it, if a elected official fails to show up and do the job that they were elected to do, their seat can be declared vacant due to abandonment. Then the Governor can appoint another person to fill that seat/position.
    Apparently, I heard wrong. According to the Wisconsin Constitution the Governer can fill vacancies but I found nothing that stated that he could declare a seat to be vacant. I should've checked this out before I posted. My apologies folks.

    Article 4, section 14.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/unannotated_wisconst.pdf
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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    He will be out next election...anyone want to bet lunch on it?
    He won the election 52%-46%. The state was done with Doyle in office for 2 terms. We owe Minnesota 58.7 million from a tax reciprocity agreement that is no longer in effect AND now we (the state) owe the medical malpractice fund $225 million after it was illegally raided by Doyle back in 2007. Despite the protesters in Madison I don't think Walker will be voted out anytime soon unless he makes a bigger mess of things than when he was voted in. I'll take that bet.
    Last edited by XDFDE45; 02-28-2011 at 10:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Isn't there a law in WI that even if they break the law, they cannot be arrested while they are "in session" regardless of where they are at?
    If they failed to show, how could they be "in session?" Roll call is taken at the beginning of each session. If you're not on the rolls, you're not in session. You're AWOL.

    When one holds public office, failing to discharge the duties of one's office, including failing to show up for work, is a punishable offense.
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