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Thread: Is a hunting license needed for OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member eddallen1958's Avatar
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    Is a hunting license needed for OC

    I have had a lot of people tell me that I need a hunting license for open carry in Idaho. Of course this is coming from people that do not even open carry. Can someone please verify this for me. I have not seen anything in the Idaho Statues stating this. I am applying from my ccw but in the meantime would like to know if I'm legal for open carry.
    Last edited by eddallen1958; 02-25-2011 at 10:29 AM.

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    No license needed. there are a few restricted places, post offices, schools and court houses.

    If you are in the Boise area please feel free to attend our monthly meeting 2nd thursday of the month at the Sunrise Rest. in Meridian, Id. the March meeting being on the 10th. Feel free to bring someone with you.

  3. #3
    Regular Member eddallen1958's Avatar
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    Thank you carracer. What time are your meetings. I live in Payette but me and a friend may still want to go to a meeting. It's not that far to Meridian.

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    6:30 we order off the menu. Meeting tries to start at 7:30 sharp. Great food, good times!

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    right on

    Carracer has it right.

    It used to be the law, under Idaho Code Section 36-401, but thankfully that bs provision was deleted. The old code section read:

    It is a misdemeanor for any person to hunt, trap, or fish for or take any wild animal, bird or fish of this state or have in his possession any uncased firearm while in the fields or forests of the state, without first having procured a license....

    Now section 36-401 has a provision that states:

    (g) Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit citizens of the United States who are residents of the state of Idaho from carrying arms for the protection of life and property.


    Sadly, the former Attorney General for Idaho, Jim Jones, once issued an opinion that old the provision was constitutional and was okay because it was only intended to punish people who hunted without licenses. Here's the link to the opinion: http://www.ag.idaho.gov/publications...86/OP86-05.pdf

    Fish and Game officers, however, pounced on the language and hassled, cited and arrested folks who were hiking with a gun, or target shooting. As I recall, there was once another provision that stated that possessing an uncased firearm in the field was prima facie evidence that the person was hunting; I believe that one was also deleted by legislation, because I can't find it anymore.

    This may be off-topic, but there's still a provision, which I believe would be tossed out in court if pressed, that says fish and game officers have the authority and duty to:

    "Search, with or without a warrant , the tents, wagons, autos, boats, aircraft (private or chartered), campers, camp trailers, or other vehicles, camps, baggage or packs of any person in the state, when they shall have probable cause to believe such person has in his possession any unlawfully taken wildlife or any equipment or substances used to take such wildlife."

    It's Idaho Code section 36-1303. I have a problem with the no warrant business - don't you?


    So, in summary, carracer has it right - there is no requirement to get a hunting license if you're traipsing around the fields and forests (or deserts, for that matter) and are carrying a gun. You may get contacted by a fish & game officer, who'll ask what/where/if you're hunting, and if you have a license, and who may accuse you of hunting and threaten all manner of arrest and citation, but as long as you deny hunting and say you are carrying for protection or target shooting, you don't have to worry about being convicted of hunting without a license.

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    Carracer - can you inform me of the statute that says it is forbidden to open carry at the state courthouse?
    Last edited by Zhukov; 02-25-2011 at 04:43 PM.

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    I don't believe there is a statute for this. The law only refers to concealed carry in 18-3302c. HOWEVER... all the courthouses I have been to have metal detectors and forbid carry in them. Even the Canyon County DMV is being passed on as an "extension" of the courthouse since it used to be within the courthouse building. I don't want to be the one to test the law on this.

    Anyone want to be the test case for this?

    http://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title18/T18CH33.htm
    Last edited by carracer; 02-25-2011 at 08:45 PM.

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    I'm curious how that would work. Can you contact the city or county's attorney and inform them that you will be carrying at the courthouse and doing so is legal in the state.

    Show them the statute and ask them to explain where it is illegal to open carry?

    What about that coordination that went down at the Boise library? When there were representatives and whatnot on the line when everything went down and it got a lot cleared up in Boise? (albeit with a detention outside while everything was figured out)

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    People have issues open carrying in Boise?

    When I lived there I open carried all the time without incident. 1 or 2 people may have asked my son if I was cop (they never asked me, just him when he was getting a soda or something in a fast food place) but that's it. Then again, I never tried to carry in court. Those people were nice but I had to teach them the laws when they were supposed to be helping me. Long story on a civil matter.

    I miss being able to drive out to the National Guard training area to shoot. It was so close. I've been gone for several years. Is it legal to carry in a restaurant that serves booze there? My memory tells me it was but I could be wrong. Az still needs to fix that law here.

    I don't miss that stinky sugar factory in Nampa.
    Last edited by sharkey; 02-26-2011 at 04:45 AM.

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    This morning I sent an email requesting clarification on the courthouse issue. Will post the response.

    In the mean time, I think the sunshine this weekend will be gret! I'm thinking it will shine on my best dress 1911!

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    No restriction against carrying in a place that serves or sells liquor. The restriction is on being under the influence while carrying (open or concealed).

    New Mexico for instance restricts carry in these types of establishments.

    [bold]Open Carrier Arrested After Scuffle[/bold]
    http://www.usacarry.com/open-carrier...after-scuffle/

    As far as I know, open carry is allowed in courthouses but concealed carry is restricted.

    Per Idaho Attorney General's website:

    http://www.ag.idaho.gov/concealedWea...h%20a%20permit

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    I'm curious to know if anyone has attempted to enter a courthouse building while open carrying?

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    I haven't tried, Our courthouse, Sheriffs Office, City Police, and Jail are all one building, and on the main doors they don't have a little sign saying no weapons....Above the 4 door entrance they have "No Weapons Allowed" in big bold print covering the span of the 4 door entry. Would be interesting to know is open carry is allowed.

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    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecocks View Post
    ...The restriction is on being under the influence while carrying (open or concealed).
    Can you please cite the "restriction" when "carrying open"

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    I've carried in the Adams County Sheriff's Station/Courthouse building in Council. No problems from any of the officers or staff. I was both open and concealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbanger View Post
    Can you please cite the "restriction" when "carrying open"
    One minute......

    Hmmm, I sit corrected. I looked at NRA, Idaho AG and the statute itself. It is only prohibited to carry concealed while intoxicated, "carry" is apparently not prohibited. Good catch OB!

    Anyone care to belt on their hawgleg and go get roaring drunk to test this out in court?
    Last edited by ecocks; 02-26-2011 at 08:26 PM.

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    I carried openly to the Sheriff's Concealed Carry class and I also carried openly when I picked up my CWL. Not any issues there, but they have separate doors to enter and a wall between the jail and the records side.

    I haven't run into any major issues anywhere at all in Boise. Not once have I been asked to leave anywhere and the only person to raise any kind of question was the manager at a state run liquor store. I promptly wrote the Director and he resolved the matter.

    The Boise library thing was right after the state passed preemption, so the library and city thought they could still have restrictions and promptly confirmed they could not, much to the chagrin of the librarian.

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    Several of us have discussed the Canyon County DMV as it is posted and enforced by an on duty CCSO deputy. They claim that it is an extension of the court house. I hope the Canyon Count Pros. Attny. gives me an opinion on the email I sent them regarding open carry in courthouses. Not sure I even expect a reply at all.

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    First - Carracer: I shot you a Private Message.

    I honestly believe they post signs in hopes people are ignorant of the law. Now does the sign say "No Weapons" or "No Concealed Weapons?"

    A "No Weapons" sign has no force of law in Idaho except maybe to advise you that you cannot concealed carry there (again, in a private establishment, it wouldn't mean jack either way). If they don't reply, I'd go to other county's and get their opinion.

    This way, if you do get one and they try to prosecute or you get arrested, you'd have printouts of conversations with the DA and also, you'd have a leg to stand on when you sue the crap out of them for wrongfully being arrested.

    Avoid conversations over the phone, unless you record them. Idaho is a one-party state, meaning you can record a conversation without disclosing it to the other party.

    You have to cover your butt if you ever want to be able to challenge this kind of crap. People have become more and more complacent and accepting of things that are not the law.

    Exercise your rights or lose them.

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    By the way, there is an old state supreme court order forbidding firearms in the Idaho Supreme Court building.

    This order was before preemption and when the old governor had an executive order making the capitol area a weapons-free zone. Since that order is expired and no longer has force of law because of of state preemption, I would also believe this court "order" would also be null and void.

    But again, this order *ONLY* applied to the State Supreme Court and adjoining buildings.

    http://www.isc.idaho.gov/WeaponsOrder.pdf

    Edit: I just emailed the Court Website via the Contact Us link asking about the validity of this order. We'll see if that will get me someone who can answer the question. If not, then I'll find another way.
    Last edited by Zhukov; 02-27-2011 at 05:51 PM.

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    Oops! Missed the pm.

    Which courthouse? My email went to Canyon County.

    To everyone: I will create a new thread to update for the March Meeting next week.

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    The email I sent went to the general idaho supreme court email.

    I also contacted the Ada County Sheriff's Dept in regards to the courthouse saying No Guns on their website.

  23. #23
    Regular Member clarkebar's Avatar
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    Post office

    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    No license needed. there are a few restricted places, post offices, schools and court houses.

    If you are in the Boise area please feel free to attend our monthly meeting 2nd thursday of the month at the Sunrise Rest. in Meridian, Id. the March meeting being on the 10th. Feel free to bring someone with you.
    Here's what I found on the post office, Chris. It's lengthy and contradicts itself alot. It seems to me that carry for lawful purposes is okay in any federal facility accept for a courthouse because the exceptions for a courthouse are only sections (1) and (2) of subsection d, which only includes police officers and military personel. There is also 39 CFR 232.1 which apparently excludes post offices from the authority of this law, but I'm looking into that too.

    18 USC Sec. 930 02/01/2010

    -EXPCITE-

    TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

    PART I - CRIMES

    CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

    -HEAD-

    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal

    facilities

    -STATUTE-

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly

    possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous

    weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),

    or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned

    not more than 1 year, or both.

    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon

    be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes

    to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal

    facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or

    imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of

    subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal

    facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon,

    or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as

    provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -

    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,

    agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political

    subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or

    supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or

    prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a

    Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such

    possession is authorized by law; or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons

    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful

    purposes.

    (e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly

    possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous

    weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be

    fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described

    in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the

    United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or

    orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of

    weapons within any building housing such court or any of its

    proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

    (g) As used in this section:

    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part

    thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal

    employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing

    their official duties.

    (2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device,

    instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is

    used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious

    bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket

    knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

    (3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom,

    judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms,

    attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the

    court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States

    marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of

    any court of the United States.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be

    posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal

    facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted

    conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court

    facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under

    subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such

    notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had

    actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

  24. #24
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    What about Kalifornia residents?

    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    Carracer has it right.

    It used to be the law, under Idaho Code Section 36-401, but thankfully that bs provision was deleted. The old code section read:

    It is a misdemeanor for any person to hunt, trap, or fish for or take any wild animal, bird or fish of this state or have in his possession any uncased firearm while in the fields or forests of the state, without first having procured a license....

    Now section 36-401 has a provision that states:

    (g) Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit citizens of the United States who are residents of the state of Idaho from carrying arms for the protection of life and property.


    Sadly, the former Attorney General for Idaho, Jim Jones, once issued an opinion that old the provision was constitutional and was okay because it was only intended to punish people who hunted without licenses. Here's the link to the opinion: http://www.ag.idaho.gov/publications...86/OP86-05.pdf

    Fish and Game officers, however, pounced on the language and hassled, cited and arrested folks who were hiking with a gun, or target shooting. As I recall, there was once another provision that stated that possessing an uncased firearm in the field was prima facie evidence that the person was hunting; I believe that one was also deleted by legislation, because I can't find it anymore.

    This may be off-topic, but there's still a provision, which I believe would be tossed out in court if pressed, that says fish and game officers have the authority and duty to:

    "Search, with or without a warrant , the tents, wagons, autos, boats, aircraft (private or chartered), campers, camp trailers, or other vehicles, camps, baggage or packs of any person in the state, when they shall have probable cause to believe such person has in his possession any unlawfully taken wildlife or any equipment or substances used to take such wildlife."

    It's Idaho Code section 36-1303. I have a problem with the no warrant business - don't you?


    So, in summary, carracer has it right - there is no requirement to get a hunting license if you're traipsing around the fields and forests (or deserts, for that matter) and are carrying a gun. You may get contacted by a fish & game officer, who'll ask what/where/if you're hunting, and if you have a license, and who may accuse you of hunting and threaten all manner of arrest and citation, but as long as you deny hunting and say you are carrying for protection or target shooting, you don't have to worry about being convicted of hunting without a license.
    Hey DCR,

    Your post stated:
    "(g) Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit citizens of the United States who are residents of the state of Idaho from carrying arms for the protection of life and property."

    I highlighted the clause in red that disturbs me.

    Am I restricted from OCing in Idaho when I visit this July because I am a Kalifornia resident?

    thanks,

    markm

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Hey DCR,


    Am I restricted from OCing in Idaho when I visit this July because I am a Kalifornia resident?

    thanks,

    markm
    Negative. You are good to OC here, assuming you are not legally prohibited from owning/possessing a firearm (a.k.a. -- a felon).

    Wish you safe travels on the visit to Idaho.

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