Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: NFA Warning - Need Info/

  1. #1
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,240

    NFA Warning - Need Info/

    I'm looking into possibly order a piece of add-on equipment for one of my sidearms but I need some NFA info from those here that might be a bit more savvy in this area than I. Here's the warning related to the item:

    "NFA Warning


    This product is regulated by NFA rules. Transfer of this product is regulated by NFA rules.

    This product converts a pistol into a short barreled rifle (SBR). SBR are regulated under the laws of the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA). It is illegal to possess this product unless it is registered with Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives BATF&E (Form 1) or you are a Class 3 Dealer. It is illegal to transfer this product to anyone before they have registered this product with BATF&E".

    OK, here's what I need to know, how long does this take and how much does this cost above and beyond the cost of the equipment?
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gravel Switch, KY
    Posts
    544
    $200 + a couple of months

  3. #3
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,240
    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    $200 + a couple of months
    OK, it's the same as a silencer purchase then. I wasn't sure if it would be the same because it's a SBR issue.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  4. #4
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,240

    Tax Stamp.

    Now my curiousity is peaked about something else. If I purchased a silencer and got the tax stamp for that item, would I have to get another tax stamp for another NFA item, like this? In short, do you have to purchase a tax stamp for each item you purchase or once you have purchase one, does it cover future purchases?
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  5. #5
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    On the silencer standpoint only one tax stamp must be obtained and you can get as many silencers you want on just the one. I would assume it would be the same for all NFA regulated products. Have you checked on the batfe website?

  6. #6
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,240
    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    On the silencer standpoint only one tax stamp must be obtained and you can get as many silencers you want on just the one. I would assume it would be the same for all NFA regulated products. Have you checked on the batfe website?
    No, i haven't but I guess that that would be a good idea. *LOL* I don't know why I hadn't thought about that beforehand. *LOL* Thanks.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gravel Switch, KY
    Posts
    544
    Im almost 100% sure that gutshot is right about needing a tax stamp for each item. If you have 4 suppressors, you will need 4 tax stamps.

    Im assuming that the OP is wanting to put a butt stock on a pistol.

  8. #8
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    ThAt is what o read in a gemtech catalog. And I figured federal govt would have a website so people could find information on such topics that is y I asked if he checked cause I wasn't certain, I assume they just put the one time purchase of the tax stamp to get people interested

  9. #9
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,240
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Be aware that if you buy one of these devices and register your handgun as a SBR then, later decide to remove the device and revert your handgun to it's original condition, that gun is still a registered NFA item and should you ever sell it, that sale could be considered the illegal transfer of a NFA firearm and the new owner might be charged with illegal possession of a SBR even though it does not have, at that time, any of the characteristics of a SBR. This is serious business and no one should get into NFA weapons without a lot of studying and reading. Good luck.
    Gutshot, check your private messages please.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  10. #10
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    330
    I don't have any NFA items because I refuse to play the registration game, although there is a fair amount of relief for that if you create a trust (a legal entity) and the trust owns the NFA items. Everything in this post is the product of my reading and indirect experience with friends engaged in NFA purchases and ownership, and is not the result of direct experience, and certainly is not a legal opinion.

    Every SBR you create from a pistol has its own unique serial number. You essentially become the manufacturer if you add the parts to convert the pistol into an SBR. It can be as simple as one of those Glock conversion kits that snaps together and can be readily switched back and forth, or as complicated as altering a pistol receiver to add a butt stock. Folding butt stocks are popular, as they retain most of the pistol's compactness while doubling the accuracy with a butt stock.

    You need a local law enforcement sign off, and the Fayette County sheriff, Kathy Witt, does not do that. Most Kentucky sheriffs have a "shall issue" attitude, a few have a "may issue" attitude for friends and people they know to be upstanding citizens, but Sheriff Witt has a "do not issue" policy. The previously mentioned trust can work around that problem.

    Yes, it's $200 and a fairly short but confusing BATFE tax form. Unless you go the trust route, I think they get a copy of your fingerprints. Expect 3-6 months for the BATFE to do the background check and process the paperwork. Sure, they should be able to do it in a day, and a customer oriented private company would do it in a day or less, but the BATFE has no incentive to be efficient about it. I think they do this on purpose, much like a waiting period to buy a handgun in many states.

    If you manufacture an SBR, you need to get permission from the federal government to transport it across state lines.

    You need another $200, tax form, and lengthy wait for each suppressor or SBR. The suppressor may be used on any weapon. The suppressor is registered, not a combination of suppressor and a particular firearm.

    Forming a trust is a good way to loan an NFA item to someone else. You simply add them to the trust. If you're found in possession of someone's NFA item and it's registered to them and not a trust with your name on it... bad juju. Probably one of those "ten years in prison" things. Putting someone else on the trust probably complicates individual ownership issues if the trust ever needs to be revoked.

    In addition to suppressors and short barrel rifles (SBRs), there are also short barrel shotguns (SBS) and "any other weapons" (AOW). If the regulations allow a weapon to be registered as either an SBR or AOW, you're generally better making it an SBR. That way, there's less confusion about the legality of adding a vertical foregrip (VFG), which is OK on a rifle but not a pistol and maybe not with an AOW?

    SBR = rifle with a barrel less than 16" or an overall length less than 26".

    SBS = shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or an overall length less than 26". Often called a "sawed off shotgun".

    All of this is from memory, and I AM NOT AN EXPERT, and do not even own any NFA weapons. Personally, I think the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968 are BS.

    It's difficult to get a straight answer out of the BATFE, and when you do, get it in writing, because you may need to prove that the BATFE said something later if they haul you into court. The laws are arbitrarily enforced, and that's even more true of the BATFE rules. The rules are bureaucratic decrees, created by people who were never elected to any legislative position, yet they're enforced as laws.

    Someone needs to make an easily searched Frequently Asked Questions page or info web page that is essentially NFA For Dummies. I've never seen a link to such a page, and there is a lot of confusion and misinformation on the internet on this topic. The BATFE are the obvious choice, but I think they prefer all of the confusion. It helps prevent the widespread use of NFA items. Only the intrepid will fight their way through the fog of misinformation and register an NFA item when the penalty for getting it wrong is 10 years in jail. Others are probably afraid to make such an info page for fear of misinterpreting some vague BATFE rule or law, or drawing the attention of the BATFE for simplifying a process that they prefer to be complicated.

    As gutshot mentioned, subguns.com is a good resource. It's not designed for newbies, but I've read many stories of people getting a good answer there that helped them stay out of legal trouble. Hey, I just looked on subguns.com, and found a good page with links to help navigate the mine field of gun laws and understand them.

    http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm

    The subguns.com page linked to an NFA FAQ, so I guess it does exist!

    http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/nfa_faqhtml.html

    Obviously, anything you read there is way more trustworthy than anything I've written here.

    In my world, there would be no NFA or GCA, and anybody could buy a good suppressor at WalMart for $50.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    222
    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty4Ever View Post
    You need a local law enforcement sign off, and the Fayette County sheriff, Kathy Witt, does not do that. Most Kentucky sheriffs have a "shall issue" attitude, a few have a "may issue" attitude for friends and people they know to be upstanding citizens, but Sheriff Witt has a "do not issue" policy. The previously mentioned trust can work around that problem.

    SBR = rifle with a barrel less than 16" or an overall length less than 26".
    It should be noted that the local sheriff is not the only LE officer that can sign off on an NFA, I also believe a state AG can do so and I think there may be one or two other ones. I was looking into this once before when I was considering a suppressor for my AK, but it's been months ago and I don't remember the details anymore.

    Also, the actual barrel can be shorter than 16" if it has a permanently attached muzzle brake. In other words a brake with a spot weld. This is also the case for my AK as it has a 14 1/2 inch barrel, but a 2 1/2 inch brake is spot welded on.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •