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Thread: CC permit versus L.T.C.F.

  1. #1
    McX
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    CC permit versus L.T.C.F.

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    Last edited by McX; 02-27-2011 at 07:18 AM. Reason: *

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    We are all holding our breaths, waiting to see what the Legislature will bring forth for us. And sincerely hope and pray for Constitutional Carry. Much discussion has been done on here on the infinite facets of CC. Shall Issue, May Issue, Will Issue. I for one am fearful that a CC permit system will be at the expense of, or an attempt to end Open Carry. If a CC permit system does go into place, i also fear that patterning, or accidental exposure will risk a permit holder's license. For me personally, i have many times stated CC will NOT work for me in the warm months, and at my age, i'm not in the mood to peel cops off of me, or get proned out, when I Open Carry. A CC permit system will not address these concerns. If the powers that be intend to ram a permit system down our throats, i would suggest they make it a flat out: License To Carry Firearms, and leave it to the disgression of the citizen to choose manner in which they carry, and then leave them the hell alone to do so. Your thoughts?
    If (I agree we probably will end up with a permit system; until the citizens of wisconsin prove that a Dodge City mentality won't show up) we are forced to have a "permit" system, then the best way is to have a permit that allows us to carry any way we desire.

    JJC

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    Regular Member tomm1963's Avatar
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    Be ready to be stopped every time you OC to provide your permit. City's like Milwaukee and Madison will be on you constantly. Will you be detained at gunpoint and proned until the leo verifies your papers? While I understand your thought, I'm not really sure this is the answer.

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    I for wouldn't go for losing OC for the sake of CC. Just from a weather perspective alone I couldn't see risking heat stroke some other thing to exercise my rights. On the L.T.C.F/permit front, I think I have a solution to the problem that could be used to "throw a bone" to the people who insist/prefer that there be some sort of "permit".

    It's modeled somewhat on the DMV. DMV- read a book on traffic laws. take a test, pass and get your DL. So, guns-- read a book, or online, or just look up the statues and go to the local PD for your free test and when you pass, you get a card saying that you know your stuff and your 'trustable". No extra infrastructure needed, no extra personnel to add to our deficit, could be voluntary.....

    So, if we HAD to have some sort of "permit", could this be workable?. just to get things done?

    I'm still all for Constitutional Carry, but if we had to have something to win people over to our side with, would this be something?

    Ideas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomm1963 View Post
    Be ready to be stopped every time you OC to provide your permit. City's like Milwaukee and Madison will be on you constantly. Will you be detained at gunpoint and proned until the leo verifies your papers? While I understand your thought, I'm not really sure this is the answer.
    Don't think that's going to happen, not saying it couldn't but, I've OC'ed in Minnesota quite a bit. ( Had a few LEO's look me over but never have I been detained at gunpoint or proned for the LEO to "verify" papers. In fact I've never been asked for papers, in Minnesota or here in Wisconsin. And YES I've been observed by LEO while OCing. Again I'm not saying it won't happen, but let's not spread fear for the sake of spreading fear.

    Remember this forum is being monitored by the powers that be, if we keep posting what we won't stand for, IMHO we will have just the opposite shoved at us by the anti's.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    McX, I am surprised you'd bring up that evil "p" word. We don't need any stinking permits!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    McX
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    Last edited by McX; 02-27-2011 at 07:18 AM.

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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by tomm1963 View Post
    Be ready to be stopped every time you OC to provide your permit. City's like Milwaukee and Madison will be on you constantly. Will you be detained at gunpoint and proned until the leo verifies your papers? While I understand your thought, I'm not really sure this is the answer.
    What would happen if ; in this scenario after you show your ID you demand the officers ID then call the PD and verify he/she is actually a police officer ? May be we should do this now and see how they like being bothered.


    Hello Any town PD? I was just stopped and made to show my ID for exercising my constitutional rights by a person who claims to be a police officer. His /her name is ...... badge # ..... Yes he's wearing a uniform, OK but I can get one of those too at the Halloween Store ! OK then they are PD, I'll release them now. Oh and could you please tell them OC is legal in WI

    How often would they stop anybody OC'n if that kept up?
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  9. #9
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    We don't need or want no stinkin permits!!!
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    Like everybody else, I have no idea what will come out of Madison... but one thing I'm certain of, there will be some sort of CCW in WI before the next election. I do know what was in the last CC law, and IMO, the "worst" case scenario would be a shall-issue law similar to the last one.

    The last CC bill did not restrict open carry whatsoever. What it did was make concealed carry legal for those who had permits. A person with a CC permit didn't have to worry about "flashing" or "printing" because carrying an "exposed" firearm was legal without a permit. OTOH, someone practicing OC did have to worry about accidentally covering (concealing) a firearm on their person if they did not have a permit.

    Also, if you had a CC permit, an uncased & loaded handgun in a vehicle was legal, making you "exempt" from the current empty/cased in/on a vehicle statute.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    WTF?????

    Why on earth would you even bring up a License to Carry?

    What next? Going to the mirror to necromanc Bloody Marry?

    Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice!

    If they ever do get around to addressing CC and go with a permit system I'll opt out.

    The fascists want to prone me out for OC? So be it. There's no amount of pain and suffering some sadist in uniform can inflict on me that I haven't already lived through. Can't trample on any more of my rights than I've already had to deal with and pay to defend.
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    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    what about the fact that states a majority of states only recognize a permit system? I for one am all about constitutional carry, but I think there should also be a voulentary permit system in place to allow people with a permit to carry in other states. I mean I go to Tennessee at least once a year, and with no home state permit, things could be tougher and I would have to pay extra for permits from other states.

    So I would go for constitutional carry with an optional permit system.
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    McX
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    Last edited by McX; 02-27-2011 at 07:19 AM.

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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=CalicoJack10;1476311]what about the fact that states a majority of states only recognize a permit system? I for one am all about constitutional carry, but I think there should also be a voulentary permit system in place to allow people with a permit to carry in other states. I mean I go to Tennessee at least once a year, and with no home state permit, things could be tougher and I would have to pay extra for permits from other states.

    So I would go for constitutional carry with an optional permit system.[/QUO

    If WI goes with constitutional carry, states with permitting should allow CC (automatic reciprocity) with proof of residency. It would be easy and cheap to label ones DL or state ID with a NO FIREARMS tag for those who cannot lawfully possess a firearm.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf
    What would happen if after you show your ID you demand the officers ID then call the PD and verify he/she is actually a police officer? Maybe we should do this now and see how they like being bothered.
    O.M.G.
    I like the way you think.
    Not sure I could pull it off with a straight face, but I'd sure like to try.

    "There's someone here pretending to be an officer, but since he's breaking the law I know he's not real, so I thought I should call the real police & you can come arrest him for impersonating an officer."
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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    O.M.G.
    I like the way you think.
    Not sure I could pull it off with a straight face, but I'd sure like to try.

    "There's someone here pretending to be an officer, but since he's breaking the law I know he's not real, so I thought I should call the real police & you can come arrest him for impersonating an officer."
    Just a little reverse harassment. HEHEHE
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    McX, I am surprised you'd bring up that evil "p" word. We don't need any stinking permits!
    I am inclined to agree with ya Protias.

    I think the exhaust fumes are gettin to McX for him to even
    mention the "P" word.

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    McX
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    Last edited by McX; 02-27-2011 at 07:19 AM.

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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    In that case McX, I would say The Constitution is the only "permit".

    Anything else is an infringement.

    LR Yote
    *NOTE: No Longer under the tyranny of Milwaukee County.


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    Watch your words; they become actions.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    so... No zombie apocalypse then?


    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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  21. #21
    Regular Member civilwarguy's Avatar
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    NO PERMITS!!!!! my wallet already has to many stupid cards for this and that in it already if i have to carry a permit it would take me 30 mins just to find it....... we i guess one time of stopping me would probably teach the LEO that harassing gun owners isnt worth his time

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    In that case McX, I would say The Constitution is the only "permit".

    Anything else is an infringement.

    LR Yote


    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    so... No zombie apocalypse then?


    Funny you should mention that. I'm watching Zombieland right now.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  23. #23
    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Bring yer "A" game if your gonna argue with the Wack Master !!!

    I like dead offenders too....Guess that makes me weird !!!

    LR Yote
    *NOTE: No Longer under the tyranny of Milwaukee County.


    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
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  24. #24
    McX
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    my appologies, it was a bad idea to bring up this topic, and start this thread, and i withdraw.

  25. #25
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=littlewolf;1476324]
    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    what about the fact that states a majority of states only recognize a permit system? I for one am all about constitutional carry, but I think there should also be a voulentary permit system in place to allow people with a permit to carry in other states. I mean I go to Tennessee at least once a year, and with no home state permit, things could be tougher and I would have to pay extra for permits from other states.

    So I would go for constitutional carry with an optional permit system.[/QUO

    If WI goes with constitutional carry, states with permitting should allow CC (automatic reciprocity) with proof of residency. It would be easy and cheap to label ones DL or state ID with a NO FIREARMS tag for those who cannot lawfully possess a firearm.
    Fair enough, I will keep my fingers crossed for something like that to happen.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
    (Paid for by the blood of patriots, and Calico Jack Defense)
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