National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill Introduced In U.S. House

Quaamik said:

Here is congresses authority on the matter:

{snip}

Compare it to a drivers license. Your drivers license is honored in all 50 states and in DC. If state A issues them to 12 year olds, the rest of the states still have to homor them even if they think you shouldn't be able to drive till you are 21. If you can drive a jacked up supercharged hotrod in one state, you can take it to any other state and as long as it's licensed to your home state it's legal. you may get hassled, and may get ticketed for noise or unsafe features, but the vehicle isn't confiscated and you don't go to jail. If you disobey a traffic law (say yo make a U turn where not legal) you get a ticket and fine - no jail time, no felony.

{snip}

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Not correct at all on this. There are many differences between states on age and other requirements that apply. When you travel to another state you are then under the laws of that state and restrictions on driving including age apply. If a state requires you to be 21 to drive in that state it does not matter what kind of license you have from your home state you must be 21. Some states require all drivers to be 16 and other states allow drivers to be 15. Until you are 16 your license in no good in those other states.

As for the hot rod analogy. Some states prohinit the frames around your license plate that cover portions of is such as dates or even the state. Even if your state does not have a law against those frames you can be charged in a state that does. State laws do not cross state lines and that includes cars and guns.

welll I prefer constitutional carry , but if this goes thru , it maybe a step down a path that has future blessings like, putting a stop to the if you don't live here we will honor your permit but if you live here , your permit is not honored unless it is from here.and it just mite be used as a lever to national wide open carry (if we be patient and work it right ) and from there go for the total constitutional carry if we work this right by opening the eyes of the stubborn states to the thought that the peoples guns is not a state issue but is of interest by the people of the nation. and then at that time may be where we go for the next step of open carry. our campaine? could be increased safety ,awareness ,(not to mention politeness) and reduction in crime with states that allows open carry, all states must comply , then push for total national constitutional carry cause that is a right that the people of the nation insist on compliance from every state. really hate to say this but, if we can use the fed govt to make the states fall in line with the constitution , then lets not be hastey in ruling that avenue out..... one last thing to other comment you don't need permit to carry gun in california, they have open carry.

PT111 said:

Not correct at all on this. There are many differences between states on age and other requirements that apply. When you travel to another state you are then under the laws of that state and restrictions on driving including age apply. If a state requires you to be 21 to drive in that state it does not matter what kind of license you have from your home state you must be 21. Some states require all drivers to be 16 and other states allow drivers to be 15. Until you are 16 your license in no good in those other states.

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cite please.

As far as I have been told and understood for many years now, if you have a drivers license issued in one state it MUST be honored in other states. If there is a difference in the age requirement for issuing a license that's tough, the state must still honor a DL issued to a resident of another state. The same thing applied to marrige licenses until the 'defense of marrige act'.

As for the hot rod analogy. Some states prohinit the frames around your license plate that cover portions of is such as dates or even the state. Even if your state does not have a law against those frames you can be charged in a state that does.

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Yes you can be charged, but what are you "charged" with? A civil infraction. At most you get a hefty fine. Aside from a few actions that can get you heavier charges (drunk driving, reckless driving) you are issued a ticket, you pay it, then you are on your way.

My point is to point out the difference between violating the various traffic laws (related to driving) verses violating the various idiocyncracies related to carry.
With DL recognized in state you are visiting:
- make a right turn on red in a state that it's not legal - fine, points on your license, then you go on your way
With CPL recognized in state you are visiting:
- carry into a public restroon in a state where puplic buildings are prohibited - felony charge, court costs, possibly years in prison, revocation of your CPL, prohibition on ever possessing a firearm again.

As long as states (or localities) are allowed to both make thier own twists into the laws, and are allowed to prosecute them as felonies, carry between the states cannot really be considered reciprocal whether it's under a CPL or 'contitutional carry'.

State laws do not cross state lines and that includes cars and guns.

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Wrong. The best use of a comparison between cars and guns is to show how differently they are treated under the law and regulations. Virtually nothing is the same.

-Car:
-----In many states license plates are required front and back. If you are from a state that doesn't require that, and you vist one that does, the police are highly unlikely to even stop you for that infraction. There may be an exemption for out of state vehicles (I don't honestly know) but I have never heard of anyone being stopped, let alone issued a ticket for it.
-----Have parts on your car that are legal where you come from, yet not street legal in a state you are visiting. You will get a ticket, pay a fine and be on your way. If you sick around int he state and don't change it you may get another ticket (or several more).

-Handgun:
------Some states require licensing. Bring your handgun from a state that does not require licensing to one that does, even while visiting, and unless you have a cpl the visited state honors you will get a delux tour of the state prison once said handgun is discovered.
------Carry a handgun with hollowpoints in your possession (not evenin the gun) into a state that prohibits hollowpoints. Even if you have a cpl that the visited state recognizes, you get to go to prison.

CPl's are unconstitutional to begin with. Although they think they do, States do not have the authority to create their own firearm laws. That power was given to the Federal Government by the States during the ratifying of the Constitution.

OK....I will put my 2cents worth in since I started this.

1: I am a huge supporter of states rights. I have read all the federalist papers and many of the diaries of the founding fathers to better understand the "meaning" of the constitution and bill of rights.

I am also in the same mindset that we are dealing with the hand we were dealt because our predecessors didn't keep a mindful watch on our rights as they were stripped from us. So, as stated before anything as small as it may be that helps get us back to where we was in the beginning I am all for.
I hear people complain about the NRA not fighting hard enough to get what we should already enjoy as rights guaranteed to us. Well, I don't see anyone else doing what they do as well as they do for as long as they been doing it and the NRA has gone toe to toe with all the big organizations trying to make us a NO GUN STATE....state as in Commie state for the PEOPLE.

2: I travel all over the country and before they changed to a state run federally guide-lined rules and regs we had each state doing things differently and it costs us times & huge fines. There is still huge controversy about it....ie Kalifornia. I just don't go there. I now don't go to New Jersey because it's a felony to have hollow point ammo in NJ.
With "National Reciprocity" what we would gain is a uniform regulation so one state ie NJ can't put a guy in prison for having a necklace made from a bullet <inert> because he had a hollow point bullet in the end of it. Kid didn't know....was traveling thru and a cop saw it. BANG...Felony conviction for something so stupid?

3: The people who have passed the laws we are dealing with now have used what's called the "Supremacy Clause" to pass several laws against us. Well, if we can why not use it to stop people like Mayor Bloomberg and his ilk from spreading more fear & lies.

Again, I am HUGE supporter of states rights but if they make the avenue we can use to take back more 2a rights across the country then I must support it.

on a side note it came up last year and missed being passed by one vote. also, they believe they have enough to get passed the veto pen.

ok...soap box closed....bash away

Generaldet said:

CPl's are unconstitutional to begin with. Although they think they do, States do not have the authority to create their own firearm laws. That power was given to the Federal Government by the States during the ratifying of the Constitution.

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Correct Sir!

Sonora Rebel said:

That already happened in 1783. The right to bear arms has no caveats as to mode of carry... or even what. Arms... period. None was written 'cause none was intended. 'Shall not be infringed' is clear enough... but infringe they have, and do... and will continue if left unchecked and unchallenged.

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It's not clear enough for them!I'm just using logic from dreamland.If we pass a "shall not be infringed" law on a regular basis,how long will it take for the light to go on in their head and we hear them say "now I get it!". HA!

eastmeyers said:

Correct Sir!

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And the 2A IS THE ONLY TRUE GUN LAW!

Quaamik said:

cite please.

As far as I have been told and understood for many years now, if you have a drivers license issued in one state it MUST be honored in other states. If there is a difference in the age requirement for issuing a license that's tough, the state must still honor a DL issued to a resident of another state. The same thing applied to marrige licenses until the 'defense of marrige act'.
{snip}

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http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/license.htm

You cannot drive in NYS if you are under the age of 16. If you have a learner permit or a driver license from another state, you are not exempt from this rule.

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Quaamik said:

cite please.

As far as I have been told and understood for many years now, if you have a drivers license issued in one state it MUST be honored in other states. If there is a difference in the age requirement for issuing a license that's tough, the state must still honor a DL issued to a resident of another state.

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"Must be honored" - Not so.

Can't cite what doesn't exist either way. There is NO federal statute/code mandating that driver's license be accepted universally by all states.. This has been accomplished by reciprocal agreement, and always subject to the laws of the state in which you are driving.

Driver's license have become the de facto form of ID, but even there such is NOT statutorily required nor exclusive.

There has been legislation sponsored in the US Congress to mandate that states must participate in the past such as HR10 - 9/11 Implementation Act of 2004 and HR418 - The Real ID Act of 2005 but the mandate has not made it into the final bills.

why are we compairing driver license laws and penalties to that of firearms when with firearms( before preemptions and still with states that don't have preemption) when you cross into a state( that is not your home state) with a firearm and you break a law of that state,county or city then you are in violation of a federal law and unlike what many believe, that doesn't just go for commercial vehicles(people tend to think it's only commercial because the law has the word transport in it) it also applies to private vehicles too. I don't know for sure but i don't think it is that way with driver license.

bushwacker said:

why are we compairing driver license laws and penalties to that of firearms when with firearms( before preemptions and still with states that don't have preemption) when you cross into a state( that is not your home state) with a firearm and you break a law of that state,county or city then you are in violation of a federal law and unlike what many believe, that doesn't just go for commercial vehicles(people tend to think it's only commercial because the law has the word transport in it) it also applies to private vehicles too. I don't know for sure but i don't think it is that way with driver license.

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Please cite what federal you think is broken by the act described above.

Note that there may be similarity in state and federals laws in some states (Example: GFSZs), but the violation of federal statute because one is in violation of a state law is unheard of in my experience.

Grapeshot said:

"Must be honored" - Not so.

Can't cite what doesn't exist either way. There is NO federal statute/code mandating that driver's license be accepted universally by all states.. This has been accomplished by reciprocal agreement, and always subject to the laws of the state in which you are driving.

Driver's license have become the de facto form of ID, but even there such is NOT statutorily required nor exclusive.

There has been legislation sponsored in the US Congress to mandate that states must participate in the past such as HR10 - 9/11 Implementation Act of 2004 and HR418 - The Real ID Act of 2005 but the mandate has not made it into the final bills.

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In the USA, the Driver License Agreement (DLA) is a new interstate compact written by the Joint Executive Board of the Driver License Compact (DLC) and the Non-Resident Violator Compact (NRVC) with staff support provided by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA). The goals of the DLA are to require each state to honor licenses issued by other member states; to require each state to report traffic convictions to the licensing state; to prohibit a member state from confiscating an out-of-state driver's license or jailing an out-of-state driver for a minor violation; and to require each state to maintain a complete driver's history, including withdrawals and traffic convictions including non-DLA states. When a DLA member state receives a report concerning their drivers from a non-DLA member state, the member state will be required to treat the report the same as if it came from a member state. As with the previous compacts, the DLA requires a state to post all out-of-state traffic convictions to the driver's record, and a state must apply its own laws to all out-of-state convictions. As with the previous compacts, the DLA allows other jurisdictions to access motor vehicle records, in accordance with the Drivers' Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), and to transfer the driver's history if the driver transfers his license.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Agreement

Grapeshot said:

"Must be honored" - Not so.

Can't cite what doesn't exist either way. There is NO federal statute/code mandating that driver's license be accepted universally by all states.. This has been accomplished by reciprocal agreement, and always subject to the laws of the state in which you are driving.

Driver's license have become the de facto form of ID, but even there such is NOT statutorily required nor exclusive.

There has been legislation sponsored in the US Congress to mandate that states must participate in the past such as HR10 - 9/11 Implementation Act of 2004 and HR418 - The Real ID Act of 2005 but the mandate has not made it into the final bills.

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DrTodd said:

In the USA, the Driver License Agreement (DLA) is a new interstate compact written by the Joint Executive Board of the Driver License Compact (DLC) and the Non-Resident Violator Compact (NRVC) with staff support provided by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA). The goals of the DLA are to require each state to honor licenses issued by other member states; to require each state to report traffic convictions to the licensing state; to prohibit a member state from confiscating an out-of-state driver's license or jailing an out-of-state driver for a minor violation; and to require each state to maintain a complete driver's history, including withdrawals and traffic convictions including non-DLA states. When a DLA member state receives a report concerning their drivers from a non-DLA member state, the member state will be required to treat the report the same as if it came from a member state. As with the previous compacts, the DLA requires a state to post all out-of-state traffic convictions to the driver's record, and a state must apply its own laws to all out-of-state convictions. As with the previous compacts, the DLA allows other jurisdictions to access motor vehicle records, in accordance with the Drivers' Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), and to transfer the driver's history if the driver transfers his license.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Agreement

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True, but these are non-governmental organizations and joining or not is voluntary - to retain membership you agree to abide by all the rules of cooperation etc. Sort of like a reciprocity agreement.

There in lies the comparison with states accepting driving licenses, most marriage licenses and carry permits in a similar manner.

Frankly, I want the federal government to stay out of my bedroom, my vehicle and my holster .... and only one of those is so directly spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

Grapeshot said:

True, but these are non-governmental organizations and joining or not is voluntary - to retain membership you agree to abide by all the rules of cooperation etc. Sort of like a reciprocity agreement.

There in lies the comparison with states accepting driving licenses, most marriage licenses and carry permits in a similar manner.

Frankly, I want the federal government to stay out of my bedroom, my vehicle and my holster .... and only one of those is so directly spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

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I actually posted this to indicate that I agreed with you... hope you saw it as such. Most (all?) states have a section of their Vehicle Code that deals with out-of-state drivers' licenses. So, you are correct. The acceptance of a driver's license form out-of-state is dealt with an the state level.

What is interesting is that Michigan, as far as I can tell, ONLY has an agreement with Ontario. They are not a part of any compact with other states... yet.

Little story; when I was younger, I was visiting a state out east and was pulled over for speeding. This was back when the maximum speed was 55mph. I remember it like yesterday because as I was driving, this states' HP officers would stand outside of their cars on the side of the road, with about 6 or 7 police cars parked behind them, and clock people coming over a hill. Well, I saw about 8-10 cars all pulled over for the next mile and thought that I had made it through unscathed. Well, I was wrong and was pulled over for driving 65 in a 55. I was very surprised I was pulled over. Well, the cop that pulled me over was originally from Michigan and said that he knew anything under 70 on a highway in Michigan would be no problem, but here in [state removed], it was a huge fine. He wrote the ticket and I continued on my way. I got home and called the number on the ticket to find out how much I owed... well over $100.00. They then told me my license would be suspended if I didn't pay. Well, I didn't pay. Later that year, I went to renew my Michigan DL and thought about that ticket... what if they won't let me? Went in to the SOS and... no problem. I told the clerk at the SOS about the ticket, and he told me "Michigan does not list out-of-state tickets on your record and does not share information with other states".
Well, a few years later, I called the number on the ticket and payed it plus a very small fine. It was definitely strange, though, that the ticket information never hurt my record here. However, I have since found out that Michigan very recently has started to share records from other states... but I sure was happy they did not when I was cited.

DrTodd said:

I actually posted this to indicate that I agreed with you... hope you saw it as such. Most (all?) states have a section of their Vehicle Code that deals with out-of-state drivers' licenses. So, you are correct. The acceptance of a driver's license form out-of-state is dealt with an the state level.

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I understood, but perhaps did not make it clear in that I didn't address that specifically.
My intent was to just expound upon the point further - to make it clear for those that think drivers licenses must be universally accepted by some law.... and driving licenses are but a red herring when discussing carry permits. One really has no similarity with nor connection to the other.

My/your/our intent, I think, is to show that acceptance of permits to carry can be handled between the states, rather than have Washington get involved. We are well on our way to accomplishing that too.

According to the wiki only three states are members of the DLA but most are members of the DLC to some degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Compact

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Agreement

What this means is there is no universal agreement to honor DL or to report violations from one state to another. Each state can set their own laws and what types of DL they will honor. As far as I know all states will accept DL from all other states as long as they are not permits and you are over 16 but there is no universal law covering that. Once again state laws do not cross state lines. That is what extradition is for.

PT111 said:

According to the wiki only three states are members of the DLA but most are members of the DLC to some degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Compact

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Agreement

What this means is there is no universal agreement to honor DL or to report violations from one state to another. Each state can set their own laws and what types of DL they will honor. As far as I know all states will accept DL from all other states as long as they are not permits and you are over 16 but there is no universal law covering that. Once again state laws do not cross state lines. That is what extradition is for.

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Yep... this is true. What I think interesting is a person whom I know fairly well told me he was cited last year for driving his Michigan licensed car in California without a front license plate. :lol:

DrTodd said:

Yep... this is true. What I think interesting is a person whom I know fairly well told me he was cited last year for driving his Michigan licensed car in California without a front license plate. :lol:

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Yes, people have gotten busted for window tint that passes inspection in their home state, but not the state they're traveling through. Talk about stupid - it's not like it's a radar detector where you can stop and put it in the trunk at the state line!

My brother-in-law has an auto transporter that is used for business, but it doesn't require a CDL. He was stopped in Tennessee and ticketed for not having a medical certificate. If it had been registered in his name, no ticket - but because it's registered in his business name and used for business, TN wanted a CDL physical even though it doesn't require a CDL. I don't know if he ever got that straightened out, or not.

DrTodd said:

Yep... this is true. What I think interesting is a person whom I know fairly well told me he was cited last year for driving his Michigan licensed car in California without a front license plate. :lol:

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He's lucky it it wasn't towed, impounded and had the numbers run and then crushed 30 days later.