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Thread: Update on National Reciprocity Bill to amend Title 18,the right to CCW in all states

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Update on National Reciprocity Bill to amend Title 18,the right to CCW in all states

    This is the National Reciprocity Bill we have been waiting for. It is the House version of the Thune Amendment. This action is coordinated with Senator Thune.
    To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.


    IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


    Mr. STEARNS (for himself and Mr. SHULER) introduced the following bill;
    which was referred to the Committee on (blank)


    A BILL


    To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.


    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,


    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
    This Act may be cited as the ‘‘National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011’’.


    SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
    The Congress finds the following:
    (1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States protects the fundamental right of an individual to keep and bear arms, including for purposes of individual self-defense.
    (2) The Supreme Court of the United States has recognized this right in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, and in the case of McDonald v. City of Chicago, has recognized that the right is protected against State infringement by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
    (3) The Congress has the power to pass legislation to protect against infringement of all rights protected under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
    (4) The right to bear arms includes the right to carry arms for self-defense and the defense of others.
    (5) The Congress has enacted legislation of national scope authorizing the carrying of concealed firearms by qualified active and retired law enforcement officers.
    (6) Forty-eight States provide by statute for the issuance to individuals of permits to carry concealed firearms, or allow the carrying of concealed
    firearms for lawful purposes without the need for a permit.
    (7) The overwhelming majority of individuals who exercise the right to carry firearms in their own States and other States have proven to be law-abiding, and such carrying has been demonstrated to provide crime prevention or crime resistance benefits for the licensees and for others.
    (8) The Congress finds that preventing the lawful carrying of firearms by individuals who are traveling outside their home State interferes with the constitutional right of interstate travel, and harms interstate commerce.
    (9) Among the purposes of this Act is the protection of the rights, privileges, and immunities guaranteed to a citizen of the United States by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
    (10) The Congress, therefore, should provide for national recognition, in States that issue to their own citizens licenses or permits to carry concealed handguns, of other State permits or licenses to carry concealed handguns.


    SEC. 3. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.
    (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:
    ‘‘§ 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms‘‘
    (a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that—
    ‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or
    ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
    ‘‘(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.
    ‘‘(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted
    license or permit issued to a resident of the State.
    ‘‘(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.’’.


    (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:
    ‘‘926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.’’.


    (c) SEVERABILITY.—Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, if any provision of this section, or any amendment made by this section, or the application of such provision or amendment to any person or circumstance is held to be unconstitutional, this section and amendments made by this section and the application of such provision or amendment to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby.


    (d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

    There are some minor differences between the Senate and House versions right now, mainly having to do with some definitions and terms. The key points are in agreement.
    Also, the question of what to do with Vermont: Vermont does not offer permits to their residents. They are Constitutional Carry. There is no answer yet. They are working it.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Well that's good, I do find it funny about Vermont, there "you don't need no stinking permission" !

    Robin47

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Thats what should be ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    Well that's good, I do find it funny about Vermont, there "you don't need no stinking permission" !

    Robin47
    Constitutional carry and be it your option to open carry loaded or concealed loaded.....now sacramento has become a "shall issue state " lets see what happens throughout the rest of Kalifornia
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    While I would love to have a CCW I would also like the option to open carry especially in the summer months plus you always have that visual deterrent. If and when this bill does pass and California does become a shall issue state our 2nd amendment rights will be fulfilled and open carry can be banned.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC KIMBER View Post
    If and when this bill does pass and California does become a shall issue state our 2nd amendment rights will be fulfilled and open carry can be banned.
    While this is possible, I don't think the SCOTUS intends for this to happen. If you read Heller you'll see that there was repeated mentioning of cases where the prohibition of concealed carry was found to be constitutional. I believe there are also cases out there which found such prohibitions to be unconstitutional, but the Heller ruling did not mention any of those. I take this to mean that while states can prohibit (or allow) people to carry concealed, that the court will not allow a state to prohibit open carry. Time will tell if this turns out to be the correct interpretation of the tea leaves.

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    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    While this is possible, I don't think the SCOTUS intends for this to happen. If you read Heller you'll see that there was repeated mentioning of cases where the prohibition of concealed carry was found to be constitutional. I believe there are also cases out there which found such prohibitions to be unconstitutional, but the Heller ruling did not mention any of those. I take this to mean that while states can prohibit (or allow) people to carry concealed, that the court will not allow a state to prohibit open carry. Time will tell if this turns out to be the correct interpretation of the tea leaves.
    Well I sure like your interpretation better then mine, lets keep our fingers crossed

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    I to would rather Open Carry !

    Robin47

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    SEC. 3. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.
    (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:
    ‘‘§ 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms‘‘
    (a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that—
    ‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or
    ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
    ‘‘(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.
    ‘‘(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted
    license or permit issued to a resident of the State.
    ‘‘(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.’’.


    With the area's highlighted, i just want to get peoples opinion, does this mean if i have a non resident Florida and/or Utah permit but cant get a CA permit but im only a resident of CA does this reciprocity apply to me. it sounds like you have to obtain a permit from your resident state to be eligible to carry everywhere else. Am I reading this wrong or is the wording confusing to others?
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Hmm...seems to me like you can carry everywhere except the state you live in. My guess....

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    With the area's highlighted, i just want to get peoples opinion, does this mean if i have a non resident Florida and/or Utah permit but cant get a CA permit but im only a resident of CA does this reciprocity apply to me. it sounds like you have to obtain a permit from your resident state to be eligible to carry everywhere else. Am I reading this wrong or is the wording confusing to others?
    Man i hope not! I wanted to do exactly what you have described. Ideally I would get the cheapest/easiest non-resident permit i could and use the national reciprocity to allow me to carry here.

    The question is at that point IF every person with a non-resident CCW could carry would CA change to "shall issue".
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    SEC. 3. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.
    (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:
    ‘‘§ 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms‘‘
    (a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that—
    ‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or
    ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
    ‘‘(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.
    ‘‘(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted
    license or permit issued to a resident of the State.
    ‘‘(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.’’.


    With the area's highlighted, i just want to get peoples opinion, does this mean if i have a non resident Florida and/or Utah permit but cant get a CA permit but im only a resident of CA does this reciprocity apply to me. it sounds like you have to obtain a permit from your resident state to be eligible to carry everywhere else. Am I reading this wrong or is the wording confusing to others?
    I was at the Southbay NRA members council meeting last night and this very subject was brought up. They are on the same track as you are that you will need your resident states CCW for the reciprocity to be in effect. There suggestion was to get the UTAH non resident CCW ASAP because those having this, before the bill gets signed MAYBE grandfathered in.

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    Regular Member ccrews's Avatar
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    OC Kimber,

    I was thinking the same thing. Anyone recommend a 'service' that aids one with the proper training requirements and documentation to acquire such?

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    My wife and I are taking the Utah/Florida CCW class in San Diego this weekend. It's $125 for first person and $75 for each additional. It's four hours and requires no test or range time. The Utah License fee is only like $65 for five years and $10 to renew for 5 years. I'm not bothering to get the FL since it's over $100 in License fees and over $100 to renew and gets you 3 more states..but if the bill passes it's useless to have more than one (non-resident) CCW.

    EDIT: The Utah application is a breath of fresh air. I've given more info on an application for a vons club card. It's 2 pages but only one has blanks and a 1/4 of that is for you to put your credit card info.
    Last edited by Born2Lose; 03-07-2011 at 09:41 PM.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Yep, received my Florida/Utah permits beginning of January...took the class offered in San Diego.

    Id say get those permits and hope the wording is cleared up and changed or a grandfather clause comes about. Either way having CCW permits recognized by 33 other states is all we have until we can get a CA ccw permit(note: I still UOC because I can not legally carry in CA without a CA CCW permit). Maybe in the interim more states will accept reciprocity from Florida/Utah.

    I do now take some tongue in cheek joy in answering TRUTHFULLY overzealous LEO questions of

    "Do you have a permit for that?" (refering to my UOC rig)

    "Why yes officer I have a license to carry Concealed (Utah/Florida) and to carry openly. (2A+ 12031 exemption).


    here is the link..
    CCW UTAH/FLORIDA NON RESIDENT
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    How long was the turnaround from Utah?
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    Yep, received my Florida/Utah permits beginning of January...took the class offered in San Diego.

    Id say get those permits and hope the wording is cleared up and changed or a grandfather clause comes about. Either way having CCW permits recognized by 33 other states is all we have until we can get a CA ccw permit(note: I still UOC because I can not legally carry in CA without a CA CCW permit). Maybe in the interim more states will accept reciprocity from Florida/Utah.

    I do now take some tongue in cheek joy in answering TRUTHFULLY overzealous LEO questions of

    "Do you have a permit for that?" (refering to my UOC rig)

    "Why yes officer I have a license to carry Concealed (Utah/Florida) and to carry openly. (2A+ 12031 exemption).


    here is the link..
    CCW UTAH/FLORIDA NON RESIDENT
    So what your saying is, you can only OC if you have a CCW from Utah ?
    Which would give you the right to LOC in California ?

    Robin47

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    So what your saying is, you can only OC if you have a CCW from Utah ?
    Which would give you the right to LOC in California ?

    Robin47
    Sarcasm?
    He is using the officer's non-specific question and answering it with a true statement.
    Now if the officer said "do you have a CA CCW permit" he would of course answer "No"
    If he would have said "do you have a license to open carry that in CA" He would of course answer "none is necessary"
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    Sarcasm?
    He is using the officer's non-specific question and answering it with a true statement.
    Now if the officer said "do you have a CA CCW permit" he would of course answer "No"
    If he would have said "do you have a license to open carry that in CA" He would of course answer "none is necessary"
    So the" Idea" is if you have a CCW from another state, you can LOC in California then and get around the PC12031 e ?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    So the" Idea" is if you have a CCW from another state, you can LOC in California then and get around the PC12031 e ?
    I think the "12031 exemption" was incorrectly written.

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    I'm goint to these guys.
    http://www.pdsclasses.com/
    They're in East County and they are $125 for first person and $75 for 2nd person.
    Includes everything for Utah except a passport photo.
    You can make it yourself here:
    http://www.epassportphoto.com/
    And have it printed at Walgreens for about eleven cents.

    They provide the fingerprint card for Florida but they must be taken to a Sheriff station or what not.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    So the" Idea" is if you have a CCW from another state, you can LOC in California then and get around the PC12031 e ?
    No.
    The 'license' exemption in 12031 is for a 12050 license holder carrying 'as licensed'.


    My opinion is that even if the CCW reciprocity bill goes through someone visiting CA from another state will not have a 12031 exemption for LOC; only an exemption for Loaded while Concealed.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    How long was the turnaround from Utah?
    not to bad I believe it was in the neighborhood of 4 weeks... Florida took longer, there was a bad print they couldnt read had to do it over... guess the Sheriff staff need more practice at finger prints. Florida was 7 weeks.
    Last edited by Firemark; 03-08-2011 at 06:28 PM.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    Sarcasm?
    He is using the officer's non-specific question and answering it with a true statement.
    Now if the officer said "do you have a CA CCW permit" he would of course answer "No"
    If he would have said "do you have a license to open carry that in CA" He would of course answer "none is necessary"
    +1

    Correct... sorry went out to walk dogs, didnt get back fast enough to reply.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    So the" Idea" is if you have a CCW from another state, you can LOC in California then and get around the PC12031 e ?
    Negative, as of right now, PRK does not honor any other states permit for anything... All carry in PRK must be by done the PRK way. UOC ONLY!!! dont think for 1 second we can skirt around this law until it gets rewritten.

    The Idea was that now that I have a CCW permit then when simply asked "do you have a permit to carry that..." without any other qualifiers such as ..."in Californa", or ..."here"; answering "Yes I do have a permit." is not lying to a LEO.

    If they choose to be confused or believe otherwise is a simple mistake of them drawing a conclusion or making an assumption. Their mistake for not phrasing the question "Do you have a California permit to carry that".
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    not to bad I believe it was in the neighborhood of 4 weeks... Florida took longer, there was a bad print they couldnt read had to do it over... guess the Sheriff staff need more practice at finger prints. Florida was 7 weeks.
    Man..that has me worried. The skin is peeling on my fingertips right now..what a great time to get printed.
    When i got LiveScanned for my Contractors License my fingertips where peeling at that time also...they called me back and i had to go do it again.

    (I'm a lizard monster like in the show "V")
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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