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Thread: Constitutional Conversations; The 2A ; at the Williamsburg Regional Library

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    Constitutional Conversations; The 2A ; at the Williamsburg Regional Library

    Thursday March 3rd the Institute of Bill of Rights Law at the William and Mary Law School, the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation, and Williamsburg Regional Library.


    http://www.constitutionalconversatio...workshop-no-6/

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    Thanks for posting this. I plan to attend. There is a small pizza place diagonally across the street from the library. I will plan on getting there about 5:45 to get something before the discussion. Open invite for any other OC's.

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good idea. I'll be there.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngck View Post
    Thanks for posting this. I plan to attend. There is a small pizza place diagonally across the street from the library. I will plan on getting there about 5:45 to get something before the discussion. Open invite for any other OC's.
    Sounds good. What's the name of this little pizza place?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    This sounds like a great dual deal - pizza and information.

    I've got to add that I am very pleased to see that the lecture is at the Public Library, where we can exercise our 2A rights, as opposed to being held on W&M Campus where our rights would have been denied us.

    stay safe.

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    Carrying on W&M campus

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    This sounds like a great dual deal - pizza and information.

    I've got to add that I am very pleased to see that the lecture is at the Public Library, where we can exercise our 2A rights, as opposed to being held on W&M Campus where our rights would have been denied us.

    stay safe.
    Hello,

    I have OC'd on W&M campus before with a friend (although we had to encounter LEOs due to a "man with a gun" call) without any problems. I did call the campus police to make sure carrying is allowed on campus just to make sure prior to my visit.
    Since the College of William and Mary is a public school, I believe the preemption applies and that your rights won't be denied should you carry on the campus grounds (unlike VCU and George Mason).

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjkimx View Post
    Hello,

    I have OC'd on W&M campus before with a friend (although we had to encounter LEOs due to a "man with a gun" call) without any problems. I did call the campus police to make sure carrying is allowed on campus just to make sure prior to my visit.
    Since the College of William and Mary is a public school, I believe the preemption applies and that your rights won't be denied should you carry on the campus grounds (unlike VCU and George Mason).
    On campus, outside the buildings, is something that we have been doing for years. It is inside the buildings where the problem might exist.

    Preemption does NOT apply to state agencies - but only to municipal agencies.

    15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-28-2011 at 08:07 PM. Reason: formating
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    On campus, outside the buildings, is something that we have been doing for years. It is inside the buildings where the problem might exist.

    Preemption does NOT apply to state agencies - but only to municipal agencies.

    15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

    That is something that I wasn't aware of. Thank you very much for the information.

    Just to note, during that phone conversation I had with the LEO at the campus police, I did ask about carrying inside the library and his answer was that carrying inside the library would be okay (Perhaps I should call again to confirm, as this happened a while back just months after I graduated from W&M).

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjkimx View Post
    That is something that I wasn't aware of. Thank you very much for the information.

    Just to note, during that phone conversation I had with the LEO at the campus police, I did ask about carrying inside the library and his answer was that carrying inside the library would be okay (Perhaps I should call again to confirm, as this happened a while back just months after I graduated from W&M).
    Carrying inside buildings accessible to the public should always be OK - doesn't seem to work out like that seamlessly though. I have heard that generally libraries are generally alright, but no personal experience or cite.


    Edit to reflect that library here refers to at most Va. college and university libraries.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-01-2011 at 02:53 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    OC in Libraries

    I've OCd many times in York County Libraries without a problem. A few Geico Eyes, but no problems from the librarians and no visits from local LEOs. I didn't expect any, though... We ARE in Sheriff DIGGS' County. :-)
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    We ARE in Sheriff DIGGS' County. :-)
    I was getting ready to say.................

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I was getting ready to say.................
    When has that ever stopped you before?

    Think that Sheriff Danny Diggs is emblematic of what all sheriffs should be.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    When has that ever stopped you before?

    Think that Sheriff Danny Diggs is emblematic of what all sheriffs should be.
    +1 on that Grape
    Last edited by kimbercarrier; 03-01-2011 at 01:22 PM.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Yes Gentlemen, York County is most fortunate to have him! York residents should remember him on election day. He is running for office again. I doubt there would be any challengers.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    How many are going to this? I still don't know yet if I will be able to or not. Where is the pizza place near the library? I've been to the library before, but don't remember any pizza joints. I just remember it seemed to be in a residential area.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    How many are going to this? I still don't know yet if I will be able to or not. Where is the pizza place near the library? I've been to the library before, but don't remember any pizza joints. I just remember it seemed to be in a residential area.
    I was thinking about it but I'm beat and still have a lot of work to do. The library can't answer if I can video or not and since Colonial Williamsburg is involved, I'll play the devil getting a release from them....So I think I'll pass.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    An Interesting Discussion

    The antis (meaning those who see the 2A as a Collective Right) were very strongly represented. I don't think they expected quite as much opposition from those of us who see the 2A as a declaration of an Individual Right).

    Several were clearly surprised at the sight of so many OCers, and I even heard a few astonished remarks about my GSL button (Did you see his pin!??).

    The woman behind me expounded about the undesirability of the Gun Show Loophole, and when someone suggested that at the time it was written, the 2A meant that citizens should equip themselves with arms suitable to military service, she muttered "I'll go buy a musket, then.". As the meeting broke up, I suggested to her that she could proabably find a suitable musket at the Hampton Gun Show this weekend. She saw my gun and asked me who I was afraid of, and I replied "No one.". Her response was that I must have very low self-esteem.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Since it was at the Public Library, I can't imagine they could or would restrict videography. 1st Amendment?

    # 3 daughter and I just got home. We enjoyed pizza across the street then into the library we went. I thought the room would be full of 2A supporters. Boy was I WRONG! Perhaps I should have considered the demographics of the neighborhood! We were surrounded by Blue-Haired Brady-Bunchers. One of them was absolutely apoplectic when she saw the pistol on the hip of an OCDO member when he stood up and bent over to get something from the seat in front of him. If she had been on the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory Tour, she would have been Ms. Strawberry. Judging from the color of her face, she needed 'juicing' very soon!

    A few other Brady Bunchers looked as though they were sucking lemons whenever a 2A supporter cited LAW. Of course, they only had FEELINGS to express and never backed their FEELINGS up with case law. Mrs. Apoplectic Strawberry went on a rant about the "Gunshow Loophole". I had great difficulty keeping a straight face and not laughing out loud.

    It was good to see some familiar faces.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Wish I could have made it.

    No one ran out screaming? No MWAG calls? Just business as usual - oh my, yawn.

    Insofar as the comment about "low self-esteem", might have been good to reply, "No mam, I apparently hold in higher esteem my life and that of my loved ones more than you do yours."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Grapeshot, I wish you had been there. The rest of them were in your age group or older. It was amusing, though... When they noticed a pistol on a hip, they looked like they had just sucked on a lemon. I love that expression on elderly folks. The only better one was the lady sitting behind 2a4all that nearly went into vapor-lock when she saw his. I'm pretty sure its the same one that questioned his manhood and self-esteem.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Grapeshot, I wish you had been there. The rest of them were in your age group or older. It was amusing, though... When they noticed a pistol on a hip, they looked like they had just sucked on a lemon. I love that expression on elderly folks. The only better one was the lady sitting behind 2a4all that nearly went into vapor-lock when she saw his. I'm pretty sure its the same one that questioned his manhood and self-esteem.
    I missed that reference. My response is show stopping sometimes: "Do you always introduce sex into your conversations." Then as you are walking away, turn and say, "Since you asked, that's why I'm carrying a small one ..... to compensate for my other blessings."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Grapeshot, I wish you had been there. The rest of them were in your age group or older. It was amusing, though... When they noticed a pistol on a hip, they looked like they had just sucked on a lemon. I love that expression on elderly folks. The only better one was the lady sitting behind 2a4all that nearly went into vapor-lock when she saw his. I'm pretty sure its the same one that questioned his manhood and self-esteem.
    About a year ago, I was in Best Buy OCing that same gun, and was told by (a much younger) woman that it was "cute"!
    Last edited by 2a4all; 03-04-2011 at 03:48 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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