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Thread: Toehold.

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Toehold.

    A little help, here. Couple of points: Please realize most of these folks here hold doctorates. They will not be swayed by rhetoric. Sound logic rules the day.

    If you come in verbal guns blazing, they'll shut down the thread and we'll loose an opportunity to response, so please DON'T come in both barrels blazing. Thanks.

    Couple of light posts, just enough to spark some curiosity.

    These folks advise nations. Don't screw it up.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I'm not going to register just to drop in uninvited (except by you) in the middle of a conversation. And despite your claim that they are only going to be swayed by logic, I contend that academics - especially those whose viewpoints I can only guage from a single glance at three posts - are more swayed by rhetoric than the average guest stat on the Jerry Springer Show.

    The science of physics may be controlled by cold hard theory, openly debated between poo-flinging adherents of competing camps, but academe itself has a certain "cultural bias" all its own that makes the National Democrat Party seem stogily conservative in comparison.

    As for any help you might want, I've got a question: seeing as the OP there is generally OK with OC by other folks and the other two posters seem to generally agree that different strokes work for different folks and countries, what do you need help with? As long as whomever it might be is not demanding that my gun be confiscated and I be locked up for even thinking about possessing it, I'm generally OK with them. If they want to discuss "rational restrictions" then I'll figure out if they just want to spout their line or actually exchange points of view and then decide if a discussion is worth the effort. Since at least the OP has not gotten grief from the two (so far) responses, I'm wondering if you are looking to throw gasoline on the fire or what.

    Give us some help figuring out what help you want from us, OK?

    stay safe.

  3. #3
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    Good points, skid.

    I am not going to join a board in which I have no interest, just to advocate for OC. I have enough places I want to be where I will advocate when the opportunity presents itself.

    Physicists, like everyone else, have axioms and postulates deeply ingrained, that may be rational or may not be. Their thinking will be directed by those ingrained ideas. If, at the core of their beliefs, they hold that guns are dangerous and evil, their minds will be changed by rational, logical argument no more than anyone else's would be.

    Einstein is often quoted as having said that God does not play dice with the universe and that insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome. These were not a statement regarding religion and one defining insanity. They were arguments against quantum theory that revealed this genius' refusal to accept what went against his axioms.

    Quantum theory holds that at the lowest levels, events are totally random and behave according to probability, making anything possible even at the levels we perceive. We don't walk through walls simply because some many quantum coins have to come up heads to make it happen that we almost surely will bang into the wall. However, it is possible, just hugely, grandly, enormously unlikely that we will successfully walk through a wall.

    Einstein refused to accept quantum theory as a possible explanation of how our universe works because of his entrenched unproven and unprovable ideas. Even this man who shattered many of our axioms, making the concepts of relativity acceptable to other scientists, could not overcome some of his own.

    This is a failing we all have, even physicists.

    So, no, rational and logical arguments will not necessarily get through to them.

  4. #4
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    Thanks to the OP for the link. I went over there and checked out several threads on guns, surprising to find that much discussion about caarry on a physics forum, but did not find anything that I would get excited about and try to butt in on. Most comments seemed much more logical than most other forums and just expressed certain views that were not at all radical.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    There is logic and then there is the law. We all must abide by the law, even the illogical laws.
    We deserve what we tolerate.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    There is logic and then there is the law. We all must abide by the law, even the illogical laws.
    Erm...why?
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Erm...why?
    I concur. If a law is illogical, discussion changes the minds of the people, who in turn will call for a change in the law.

    Or so the theory goes. So far, 2A discussion and activism has worked well to repeal or amend many of the illogical anti-gun laws forced on us from 60s through the 90s. Don't quit now!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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