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Thread: Opinions on why or why not open carry is good???

  1. #1
    Regular Member Campo6245's Avatar
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    Opinions on why or why not open carry is good???

    I live in RI. You can open or conceal carry if you have an AG permit. You can ONLY conceal carry if it is a permit from the town. Still both permits are good statewide. I carry both conceal and open. I am curious to what the opinions of open and conceal carry are and why? Thank you all in advance for sharing and I must say I am proud to be a part of this organization. It does wonders for the cause of carrying when we have sound, polite and lawful citizens standing up for their rights!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    you should be studying around enough, that you would have already read this!!


    Why Open Carry?


    Why Open Carry

    (3 Viewing)
    This topic should be us
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 02-28-2011 at 01:46 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member Campo6245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    you should be studying around enough, that you would have already read this!!


    Why Open Carry?


    Why Open Carry

    (3 Viewing)
    This topic should be us
    Thank you for the reply. I was just curious as to right up to the recent of fellow posters' opinions.

  4. #4
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I OC (Open Carry) most always, but there are times when I deem it to my preference to CC (Conceal Carry). My primary reason for OC'ing is my knees. I have osteoarthritis in both knees so fighting or fleeing as I was once capable of doing are no longer serious options for me. My open carried sidearm serves as a warning to those who may wish to do me harm that perhaps it would be in their best interests to find another victim.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    I carry. I feel no need to conceal, but it just happens sometimes, therefore I have a CPL.

    My carry just happens to be OC most of the time simply because I make no effort to conceal.

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    I ran across this newsletter piece recently, from Maj. Norm Belson (Ret) who now teaches self-defense in Florida. He makes some good arguments but, as with most things, there's always the other side. Since the newsletter's epilogue encourages sharing I see no copyright harm in excerpting from it here.

    " I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States that guarantees our right 'To Keep and Bear Arms". However, I am not a proponent of the recent effort to approve 'Open Carry' in Florida by those almost 800,000 persons with Concealed Weapon Permits (CWP). Of course, I also strongly believe that those who favor Open Carry have the absolute right to do so and should share that viewpoint with their friends and neighbors. If interested, my reasons are:

    1. Florida is a major tourist attraction and a large portion of our tourist revenue comes from overseas and out of state visitors who may reside in countries and states where firearms are considered exceedingly dangerous and unsavory. I remember the reaction in the local and national as well as overseas media when SB 436, Protection of Persons & Property Law, commonly referred as "Stand Your Ground' rule, was enacted October 1, 2005. How many of you saw signs on the interstate highways warning travelers of the need to be polite to Floridians because you may be shot if you were not?

    2. Open carry may provide a ready source of firearms for criminals. In my opinion, most citizens are probably not well read into procedures and techniques regarding firearm retention and may lack the physical ability and situational and environmental awareness to avoid loss of their firearm.

    3. I am concerned that open carry may lead to greater risk of confrontations between those who have CWP's and those who do not. In my experience, many citizens are so deeply against firearms ownership that they will clash with those who are supporters of the Second Amendment. I will never forget the confrontations that I had with Viet Nam war protestors who absolutely espoused that all vets were baby killers, mercenaries and murderers but were not reluctant to attack those same vets with vigor, invective and physical attacks. Those types of people still exist my friends!

    4. Open carry will make it more difficult for law enforcement to determine who may be legally carrying and who may be carrying illegally. I am positive that the criminal element will take advantage of open carry rules and proliferation of firearms in public. In addition, the efforts of law enforcement to verify legal open carry may result in confrontations with CWP holders who resent being treated and questioned like a 'common criminal' -- wish I had a dime for every time that I heard that as a cop!

    5. There will be a proliferation of signs in retail establishments such as malls, supermarkets, restaurants, etc. banning firearms in their businesses with a possible increase in law enforcement service and intervention.

    6. In my opinion, advertising that you are armed is 'giving aid, comfort and intelligence to your enemy' and not a great idea! If your attacker knows that you have the means of defending yourself, he may either change the nature of the attack or hopefully seek another victim. Don't forget the old Infantry rules -- if your attack is going really well, it is probably an ambush!"

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,more,,,

    my opinion, shared by many...

    conceal, a gun, you have the means to try to defend yourself, if youre attacked!

    open carry a gun, and the mere sight, of the means of self defense,
    will often/always repel an attack before it has a chance to start!

    a concealed gun doesnt warn an attacker away, you look just like any other Victim!
    their are many stories of open carried guns derailing a bad guys plans of mayhem!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    I ran across this newsletter piece recently, from Maj. Norm Belson (Ret) who now teaches self-defense in Florida. He makes some good arguments but, as with most things, there's always the other side. Since the newsletter's epilogue encourages sharing I see no copyright harm in excerpting from it here.

    " I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States that guarantees our right 'To Keep and Bear Arms". However, I am not a proponent of the recent effort to approve 'Open Carry' in Florida by those almost 800,000 persons with Concealed Weapon Permits (CWP). Of course, I also strongly believe that those who favor Open Carry have the absolute right to do so and should share that viewpoint with their friends and neighbors. If interested, my reasons are:

    1. Florida is a major tourist attraction and a large portion of our tourist revenue comes from overseas and out of state visitors who may reside in countries and states where firearms are considered exceedingly dangerous and unsavory. I remember the reaction in the local and national as well as overseas media when SB 436, Protection of Persons & Property Law, commonly referred as "Stand Your Ground' rule, was enacted October 1, 2005. How many of you saw signs on the interstate highways warning travelers of the need to be polite to Floridians because you may be shot if you were not?

    Hogwash and horse-hockey! If tourists are so easily frightened by the mere sight of an American walking around with an openly carried handgun, then think of how they must feel when seeing other Americans wearing baggy/droopy jeans and their underwear showing, or other Americans wearing heavily ironed/starched untucked sports shirts with only the top two buttons buttoned, or other Americans walking, driving, eating, picking their noses with a cell phone glued to their ear. All of those things are indicators of possible dangers to life and limb. The only thing different between OCing and those other things is that one can easily observe when the person OCing goes from law-abiding and peaceable to overtly dangerous.

    As for the signs on the road - most folks found them highly amusing, as opposed to being true indicators of danger. And at best they did in fact make tourists a bit more polite and less demanding than they had been previously.


    2. Open carry may provide a ready source of firearms for criminals. In my opinion, most citizens are probably not well read into procedures and techniques regarding firearm retention and may lack the physical ability and situational and environmental awareness to avoid loss of their firearm.

    We have had this discussion before, and it ends up the same way every time. Nobody has ever been able to produce a verifiable account of an OC-er being specifically targeted for the purpose of taking awau=y their OC handgun, let alone a sucessful case of such.

    3. I am concerned that open carry may lead to greater risk of confrontations between those who have CWP's and those who do not. In my experience, many citizens are so deeply against firearms ownership that they will clash with those who are supporters of the Second Amendment. I will never forget the confrontations that I had with Viet Nam war protestors who absolutely espoused that all vets were baby killers, mercenaries and murderers but were not reluctant to attack those same vets with vigor, invective and physical attacks. Those types of people still exist my friends!

    Blood in the streets!!111eleventy11!! - again. Didn't happen when they warned of this before, so why is it going to happen now?

    4. Open carry will make it more difficult for law enforcement to determine who may be legally carrying and who may be carrying illegally. I am positive that the criminal element will take advantage of open carry rules and proliferation of firearms in public. In addition, the efforts of law enforcement to verify legal open carry may result in confrontations with CWP holders who resent being treated and questioned like a 'common criminal' -- wish I had a dime for every time that I heard that as a cop!

    So how, today, do the cops know who is carrying concealed legally and who is not?

    And shouldn't the default response be to cops intervening only when an actual, bad, mean, crime is actually being committed, or there is some artictlatable suspicion that the person who has drawn the cop's undivided interest has committed or is about to commit a crime that is not merely openly carrying a handgun?

    Otherwise, cops should be pulling over diabetics who are driving because they could go into a diabetic coma at any moment, or folks with licence plates identifying them as handicapped because they could do something dangerous based on whatever their handicap is. Or what about the folks driving to or from an AA meeting? They [i]could] fall off the wagon and drive drunk, for goodness sakes!


    5. There will be a proliferation of signs in retail establishments such as malls, supermarkets, restaurants, etc. banning firearms in their businesses with a possible increase in law enforcement service and intervention.

    Just because a business posts a No Guns sign does not mean there will be any increase in calls for cops to come there - unless they want to fill out a complaint about the business they have lost because gun owners now refuse to patronize them.

    6. In my opinion, advertising that you are armed is 'giving aid, comfort and intelligence to your enemy' and not a great idea! If your attacker knows that you have the means of defending yourself, he may either change the nature of the attack or hopefully seek another victim. Don't forget the old Infantry rules -- if your attack is going really well, it is probably an ambush!"

    So he's saying that having BGs decide not to pick you as their next victim is a bad thing? Or is he again trying to make the argument that the OCer will be targetted because of the handgun? Which is it?

    Or maybe he's trying for the other argument - that OCers have an unfair advantage because the BGs will not pick them as victims, thus increasing te chances that everybody else will be picked as a victim? Because those other folks who are not OCing could never possibly be carrying concealed and thus have a means of protecting/defending themselves, could they?
    What a Fudd! Sometimes I wish that besides a spell-check feature there was a logic-check that folks could use.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 02-28-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member protect our rights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    I ran across this newsletter piece recently, from Maj. Norm Belson (Ret) who now teaches self-defense in Florida. He makes some good arguments but, as with most things, there's always the other side. Since the newsletter's epilogue encourages sharing I see no copyright harm in excerpting from it here.

    " I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States that guarantees our right 'To Keep and Bear Arms". However, I am not a proponent of the recent effort to approve 'Open Carry' in Florida by those almost 800,000 persons with Concealed Weapon Permits (CWP). Of course, I also strongly believe that those who favor Open Carry have the absolute right to do so and should share that viewpoint with their friends and neighbors. If interested, my reasons are:

    1. Florida is a major tourist attraction and a large portion of our tourist revenue comes from overseas and out of state visitors who may reside in countries and states where firearms are considered exceedingly dangerous and unsavory. I remember the reaction in the local and national as well as overseas media when SB 436, Protection of Persons & Property Law, commonly referred as "Stand Your Ground' rule, was enacted October 1, 2005. How many of you saw signs on the interstate highways warning travelers of the need to be polite to Floridians because you may be shot if you were not?

    2. Open carry may provide a ready source of firearms for criminals. In my opinion, most citizens are probably not well read into procedures and techniques regarding firearm retention and may lack the physical ability and situational and environmental awareness to avoid loss of their firearm.

    3. I am concerned that open carry may lead to greater risk of confrontations between those who have CWP's and those who do not. In my experience, many citizens are so deeply against firearms ownership that they will clash with those who are supporters of the Second Amendment. I will never forget the confrontations that I had with Viet Nam war protestors who absolutely espoused that all vets were baby killers, mercenaries and murderers but were not reluctant to attack those same vets with vigor, invective and physical attacks. Those types of people still exist my friends!

    4. Open carry will make it more difficult for law enforcement to determine who may be legally carrying and who may be carrying illegally. I am positive that the criminal element will take advantage of open carry rules and proliferation of firearms in public. In addition, the efforts of law enforcement to verify legal open carry may result in confrontations with CWP holders who resent being treated and questioned like a 'common criminal' -- wish I had a dime for every time that I heard that as a cop!

    5. There will be a proliferation of signs in retail establishments such as malls, supermarkets, restaurants, etc. banning firearms in their businesses with a possible increase in law enforcement service and intervention.

    6. In my opinion, advertising that you are armed is 'giving aid, comfort and intelligence to your enemy' and not a great idea! If your attacker knows that you have the means of defending yourself, he may either change the nature of the attack or hopefully seek another victim. Don't forget the old Infantry rules -- if your attack is going really well, it is probably an ambush!"

    Haha, I live in Indiana where surprisingly we are able to open carry. I have not heard of ONE single time that a person has had their gun stolen and used against them. What I DO have is firsthand accounts of attackers abandoning their attack at the last moment when they realized I had a firearm on my hip. I wouldn't trust this guy to teach me self defense because he obviously does not get the whole picture, when it comes to self defense.
    Last edited by protect our rights; 03-01-2011 at 11:28 AM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" - George Washington

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What a Fudd! Sometimes I wish that besides a spell-check feature there was a logic-check that folks could use.

    stay safe.
    "Or maybe he's trying for the other argument - that OCers have an unfair advantage because the BGs will not pick them as victims, thus increasing te chances that everybody else will be picked as a victim?"

    Strange as it may seem, this idea is sometimes advanced by those on the other side of the political fence. Some years ago, I had an on-going email debate with an editor of Slate Magazine (a very left-leaning organ) about my using the "Club" on my car... of all things. I had mentioned that most BG's who see this just move on to someone's else's car that looks promising. He felt that this was somehow not fair and that I should feel a little shame for maybe steering a thief to another victim. After I got over my fit of laughing, I wrote that perhaps other victims might reduce their chances at victimhood if they also took measures to better protect their property.

    So I suppose I should now partially hide my sidearm (remember, my knees) in an effort to level the playing field. Interesting.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    " I had an on-going email debate with an editor of Slate Magazine (a very left-leaning organ) about my using the "Club" on my car... of all things. I had mentioned that most BG's who see this just move on to someone's else's car that looks promising. He felt that this was somehow not fair and that I should feel a little shame for maybe steering a thief to another victim.
    I do believe there is some sort of 'victim equality' mindset goin' on. Oh... well it's not fair that you should be proactive and provide a level of security above that of the common, ever in Condition White defenseless mouth-breather.

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    The only part of Maj. Belson's remarks I agree with is: "those who favor Open Carry have the absolute right to do so".

    If it freaks out tourists, tough. When they don't see the shootouts their politicians warned them about, maybe they'll learn something.

    Does Open Carry "provide a ready source of firearms for criminals" in states where it's legal? No? That's what I thought.

    Does Open Carry "lead to greater risk of confrontations between those who have CWP's and those who do not" in states where it's legal? No? That's what I thought.

    Does Open Carry "make it more difficult for law enforcement to determine who may be legally carrying and who may be carrying illegally" in states where it's legal? No? That's what I thought.

    Has there been "a proliferation of signs in retail establishments such as malls, supermarkets, restaurants, etc. banning firearms in their businesses with a possible increase in law enforcement service and intervention" in states where it's legal? No? That's what I thought.

    In any case, none of that matters. We have a Constitutional right to carry arms. States may be able to make a case for prohibiting or licensing CC, but not OC.

    If we choose OC, we have a right to do it and it should be our decision.

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    Belson has clearly not researched what actually happens when OC breaks out all over a State. AL has always been OC. In recent decades, though, no one was doing it--until the OC rash broke out this past year. We are about to have a statewide meet-up with an estimated 100 guns on hips in one place. The kinds of dire circumstances Belson predicts just aren't happening in AL. There is no reason to think they will happen in FL.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    .... We are about to have a statewide meet-up with an estimated 100 guns on hips in one place. The kinds of dire circumstances Belson predicts just aren't happening in AL. There is no reason to think they will happen in FL.
    There are well over three times that number of folks openly carrying handguns wandering through the halls of the Virginia General Assembly Building every Lobby Day. To date the only known "accidental" discharge of a firearm in the building happened (not on Lobby Day) when a member of the General Assembly was moving his handgun out of its holster. Fortunately the round struck his bullet-resistant vest which was hanging from a hook on the inside of his closed office door. Other than pride, the only injury was to the vest.

    I guess that the lack of incidents is just due to bad reporting?

    stay safe.

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    Regular Member protect our rights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    There are well over three times that number of folks openly carrying handguns wandering through the halls of the Virginia General Assembly Building every Lobby Day. To date the only known "accidental" discharge of a firearm in the building happened (not on Lobby Day) when a member of the General Assembly was moving his handgun out of its holster. Fortunately the round struck his bullet-resistant vest which was hanging from a hook on the inside of his closed office door. Other than pride, the only injury was to the vest.
    Wow, he got lucky with it hitting the vest. Be thanking god! that's all we would need is another accidental shooting for the "No-Brain Brady Campain" to come outta the wood work. I have noticed in the last 2 years that OC is becoming a big thing with the younger generation. 18-30yrs. (which I myself am included in.)
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" - George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by protect our rights View Post
    I have noticed in the last 2 years that OC is becoming a big thing with the younger generation. 18-30yrs. (which I myself am included in.)
    lol I am just barely in that category... getting old sucks... and taxes seem to only get worse. I OC because its my right! I also tell people EXACTLY what I think (ask my wife she doesnt ask about her butt) because that is my right as well.
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    I ran across this newsletter piece recently, from Maj. Norm Belson (Ret) who now teaches self-defense in Florida. He makes some good arguments...
    I disagree. He merely states his opinion. Furthermore, it's largely unqualified and contrary to well-known and established fact.

    All quotes below are from Belson's article:

    I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States that guarantees our right 'To Keep and Bear Arms".
    As are most of us.

    1. Florida is a major tourist attraction and a large portion of our tourist revenue comes from overseas and out of state visitors who may reside in countries and states where firearms are considered exceedingly dangerous and unsavory.
    So is Las Vegas, but OCers on the Vegas strip don't cause tourists to flee in terror. Quite the opposite - tourists are sometime curious about it, and a few even have their pictures taken with OCers.

    I remember the reaction in the local and national as well as overseas media when SB 436, Protection of Persons & Property Law, commonly referred as "Stand Your Ground' rule, was enacted October 1, 2005.
    Who's reaction was that, Maj Belson? Yours?

    How many of you saw signs on the interstate highways warning travelers of the need to be polite to Floridians because you may be shot if you were not?
    You're referring to the Brady Bunch's anti-gun propaganda signs. People paid them about as much attention as people normally give to the Brady Bunch: Not much.

    2. Open carry may provide a ready source of firearms for criminals.
    This hogwash is perhaps the grossest piece of propagand out there, yet remains void of any substantiative fact.

    3. I am concerned that open carry may lead to greater risk of confrontations between those who have CWP's and those who do not. In my experience, many citizens are so deeply against firearms ownership that they will clash with those who are supporters of the Second Amendment.
    Maj Belson's experience is extremely limited. In the year that I've been OCing, everywhere, and in normal contact with "many citizens," I've yet to experience a single such "clash."

    4. Open carry will make it more difficult for law enforcement to determine who may be legally carrying and who may be carrying illegally.
    Void of RAS of a crime in progress, law enforcement doesn't get to make that determination, at least not in my state.

    5. There will be a proliferation of signs in retail establishments such as malls, supermarkets, restaurants, etc. banning firearms in their businesses with a possible increase in law enforcement service and intervention.
    The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Those locations who do post "No Firearms" signs loose the business income of myself and others who carry.

    6. In my opinion, advertising that you are armed is 'giving aid, comfort and intelligence to your enemy' and not a great idea!
    In the previous 5 statements, your opinion has proven to be of nearly zero value. Answer me this, "Major:" How often do soldiers CC?

    Hmm...

    ...if your attack is going really well, it is probably an ambush!
    When people attack others, they're called "criminals." Honest, law-abiding citizens who carry firearms, whether OC or CC, don't go around attacking others.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Excellent response! COMMENT REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack

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    I know that pulling an openly carried handgun is a lot faster than pulling a jacket or shirt out of the way to pull a concealed handgun when a dog or other animal is charging at you.

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    I open carry in Missouri because I would need a permit to carry concealed when outside my vehicle. I hope that one day we won't have to get permission from our state authorities in order to conceal carry within my state.
    Last edited by MK; 03-09-2011 at 01:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I disagree. He merely states his opinion. Furthermore, it's largely unqualified and contrary to well-known and established fact.
    As I went on to say, there's always the other side, which you eloquently presented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    As I went on to say, there's always the other side, which you eloquently presented.
    Thanks.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TrailRunner's Avatar
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    I open carry because cops are thin on the ground and people do crazy things. When the fan blades turn brown, I don't want to think "Dang. Left my pistol at home today because I thought I wouldn't need it."
    "There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunner View Post
    When the fan blades turn brown...
    Nice! ROTFL! Haven't heard that one, before. I'll have to remember it.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    All of the excuses for why citizens of this constitutional republic should not REALLY exercise a right that is constitutionally guaranteed fall upon my numb ears.

    People IN THIS NATION have the right to be armed for personal safety. Shall we not "offend" foreign tourists ? We are supposed to subordinate our law to their standards ? No thank you.

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