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Thread: Join Michigan Open Carry for Pizza/Lunch on Sat. 4/9/2011 in Fowlerville

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Join Michigan Open Carry for Pizza/Lunch on Sat. 4/9/2011 in Fowlerville

    Join Michigan Open Carry for Lunch.

    Where: Danny's Pizza Shack (Map)
    When: Saturday 9 April 2011 @ 1:30 PM
    Cost for All-You-Can-Eat Buffet: About $5
    Menu also available
    Contact/Coordinator: TheQ
    Address: 307 West Grand River Avenue
    Fowlerville, MI

    The pizza is great! Aidan and I personally endorse it as we ate there last week while Being Interviewed by WXYZ. I also understand Big Gay Al works there and endorses the food.

    Lansing Carpool Available From: TheQ (2 seats available)
    Detro Metro Carpool Available From: (Radioman - South Oakland County or En Route between there and Fowlerville)
    Grand Rapids Carpool Available From: (Your name here - Contact TheQ)

    If you are coming from a major metropolitan area and are willing to share a ride, please contact me.

    If you plan to attend:
    1. Please RSVP (Either in this thread or Contact TheQ) in advance so I can let our most welcoming host know how many plan to attend.
    2. Please also indicate if you'll be more likely interested in the buffet or if you will be ordering your own.


    PLEASE NOTE: As an official MOC Sanctioned Event and per MOC's new policy Long Gun Open Carry is discouraged. If you bring a long gun, the owner may ask you to leave. MOC has made it clear they will not support LGOC efforts at their official gatherings.

    RSVP Count Thus Far
    +MGO: 8-10



    Cross Post on: MOC, MGO

    * If you have a problem with MOC's new LGOC Policy, please go to the new thread. Don't clutter/confuse this one.
    Last edited by TheQ; 04-08-2011 at 07:46 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Is anyone else coming from the Iowa area? I could use a ride!

    I will try to make it. Thats the weekend of my birthday so maybe Ill make it back to celebrate the OC way!

  3. #3
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Count me as a possible.
    I'll even wear..."the hat"...

  4. #4
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Join Michigan Open Carry for Lunch.

    Where: Danny's Pizza Shack (Map)
    When: Saturday 9 April 2011 @ 1:30 PM
    Cost for All-You-Can-Eat Buffet: About $5
    Menu also available
    Contact/Coordinator: TheQ

    The pizza is great! Aidan and I personally endorse it as we ate there last week while Being Interviewed by WXYZ. I also understand Big Gay Al works there and endorses the food.

    Lansing Carpool Available From: TheQ (2 seats available)
    Detro Metro Carpool Available From: (Radioman - South Oakland County or En Route between there and Fowlerville)
    Grand Rapids Carpool Available From: (Your name here - Contact TheQ)

    If you are coming from a major metropolitan area and are willing to share a ride, please contact me.

    If you plan to attend:
    1. Please RSVP (Either in this thread or Contact TheQ) in advance so I can let our most welcoming host know how many plan to attend.
    2. Please also indicate if you'll be more likely interested in the buffet or if you will be ordering your own.


    PLEASE NOTE: As an official MOC Sanctioned Event and per MOC's new policy Long Gun Open Carry will not be allowed. *

    RSVP Count Thus Far: 7
    Maybe's: 3



    Cross Post on: MOC, MGO

    * If you have a problem with MOC's new LGOC Policy, please start a new thread. Don't clutter/confuse this one.
    And since when did any organization have the power to tell private citizens that exercising a legal right will not be "allowed"?

    Did someone think this through?

    Oh... and threads have a life of their own and trying to restrict who posts what isn't going to fly either.... unless you are the owner or a moderator of this forum. You know.. private property rights and all that.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 03-05-2011 at 10:14 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And since when did any organization have the power to tell private citizens that exercising a legal right will not be "allowed"?

    Did someone think this through?

    Oh... and threads have a life of their own and trying to restrict who posts what isn't going to fly either.... unless you are the owner or a moderator of this forum. You know.. private property rights and all that.
    MOC promotes handgun OC. Honestly, if someone carries a long gun to a public place or business we have esentially zero recourse to stop it. So saying "LGOC not allowed" is probably not an accurate statement. MOC asks those who support handgun OC to join us in an meal, while doing so we prefer to not have long guns in attendance because they tend to distract from OUR goal of promoting HANDGUN OC.

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And since when did any organization have the power to tell private citizens that exercising a legal right will not be "allowed"?

    Did someone think this through?

    Oh... and threads have a life of their own and trying to restrict who posts what isn't going to fly either.... unless you are the owner or a moderator of this forum. You know.. private property rights and all that.
    My guess would be, the owner of Danny's Pizza Shack doesn't want LGOC either.
    Big Gay Al
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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Please consider:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And since when did any organization have the power to tell private citizens that exercising a legal right will not be "allowed"?

    Did someone think this through?

    Oh... and threads have a life of their own and trying to restrict who posts what isn't going to fly either.... unless you are the owner or a moderator of this forum. You know.. private property rights and all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    MOC promotes handgun OC. Honestly, if someone carries a long gun to a public place or business we have esentially zero recourse to stop it. So saying "LGOC not allowed" is probably not an accurate statement. MOC asks those who support handgun OC to join us in an meal, while doing so we prefer to not have long guns in attendance because they tend to distract from OUR goal of promoting HANDGUN OC.
    Hello Gents,

    I know you both & consider you to be good men. Let's take a breath here and think; as I know you both do very often. I support MOC & it's objectives of fostering trust in the public and spreading knowledge. However I also support the right of any law abiding citizen to defend themselves or their family should the need arise be it with a long gun or pistol.

    The issue is in my humble opinion is building public trust. So when we can tailor our form of carry to do so, is that a mistake?

    I have and do Long Gun OC. I typically do this on the dark & secluded drive I live on, as I feel it makes sense at times due to coyotes, and other critters. To date, I have never had a neighbor call in a MWAG complaint.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-05-2011 at 01:53 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    PLEASE NOTE: As an official MOC Sanctioned Event and per MOC's new policy Long Gun Open Carry will not be allowed. *

    RSVP Count Thus Far: 7
    Maybe's: 3



    Cross Post on: MOC, MGO

    * If you have a problem with MOC's new LGOC Policy, please start a new thread. Don't clutter/confuse this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    MOC promotes handgun OC. Honestly, if someone carries a long gun to a public place or business we have esentially zero recourse to stop it. So saying "LGOC not allowed" is probably not an accurate statement. MOC asks those who support handgun OC to join us in an meal, while doing so we prefer to not have long guns in attendance because they tend to distract from OUR goal of promoting HANDGUN OC.
    I didn't say that LGOC is not allowed.... the OP did in a post that gave what he said the implied authority of MOC's new LGOC policy.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    in regards to the Fowerville event only

    IMO

    MOC has the right to "TELL" its participants of an MOC sanctioned event what is allowed and what is not. The restrictions of NO LGOC would have come from what was agreed upon between MOC and the owner of the property.

    While MOC may have no legal power to enforce no LGOC on the property, the owner and his agents do. And if the agreement between MOC and Danny's pizza was to restrict LGOC then they have all the right to disseminate the information as such.

    As former business owner that was open to the general public, if MOC had asked me for permission to hold a MOC sanctioned event, I would have had those who wanted the event explained to me what MOC's agenda was, if I did not already know, and what they hopped to gain by having such an event at my place. If I had any restrictions, I would have let MOC know before I agreed to the event, but in any case, I would expect MOC to do the policing of their attendees to ensure they stay within the guidelines of what we discussed, agreed to and the law. In other words I would have given power to them to act as my agent towards their attendees.

    While I was not at the meeting that was held to have this event held at Danny's Pizza, I would think it was posed as an Open Carry HANDGUN event. And that is what the owner agreed to. I would have though that LGOC would have been mentioned as something MOC does not endorse or allow at their events. But again I was not there so I cannot speak intelligently on such a matter. But that would seem a logical approach.

    That being said, MOC has the "RIGHT" to request attendees not LGOC at this event.

    If someone did show up with a LONG GUN, while MOC has no legal powers to remove them per-say, only the owner or one of his agents could tell the person to leave, I donít think the owner would want unwanted guests to be there and have MOC look the other way. Again as the owner of a open to the public business, I would have put my power to do so in the hands of MOC to police their own event in my behalf since they are the ones in charge of the event. If MOC looked the other way while someone LGOC or got out of hand and did nothing, they would never hold another event in my place.

    In short I feel MOC has ever right to restrict the event to handgun OC.
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    My guess would be, the owner of Danny's Pizza Shack doesn't want LGOC either.
    I would guess the same. .. and I support whatever form of carry Danny's Pizza Shack owners are comfortable with. In fact, I'm grateful that Danny's supports open carry.

    But my point of contention isn't with Danny's... I wish I could attend that OC event there and personally thank the owner/manager/staff!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Hello Gents,

    I know you both & consider you to be good men. Let's take a breath here and think; as I know you both do very often. I support MOC & it's objectives of fostering trust in the public and spreading knowledge. However I also support the right of any law abiding citizen to defend themselves or their family should the need arise be it with a long gun or pistol.

    The issue is in my humble opinion is building public trust. So when we can tailor our form of carry to do so, is that a mistake?

    I have and do Long Gun OC. I typically do this on the dark & secluded drive I live on, as I feel it makes sense at times due to coyotes, and other critters. To date, I have never had a neighbor call in a MWAG complaint.
    I support MOC's mission of furthering the normalization of the right to bear arms through exposing the public to.... holstered sidearms during normal everyday activities by normal everyday people. I support informing and educating the public too. And G9... you know that to be true.

    I also understand that sometimes it is advantageous to, in your words, tailor our form of carry. I do it myself as I'm sure others do.

    But I was taking issue with the idea that MOC could decide on a "no LGOC open carry" and then not "allow" or "ban" LGOC for anyone and everyone, member or not, at a MOC event because it has a new "policy".
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post

    In short I feel MOC has ever right to restrict the event to handgun OC.
    The business owner, Danny's Pizza Shack, has the "right" to restrict the event to holstered handguns only. Or to "restrict" the event in any way the owner sees fit... and I'm sure the owner knows that very well.

    MOC has absolutely no "right" to restrict anything... MOC can "request" that folks behave in a certain manner at their events... but they cannot "require" it, unless they own Danny's.

    Not only that but the original post made mention that MOC now has a new "policy" of no LGOC at it's events... that would mean to me that it isn't just Danny's but any and all MOC events. ... even those held on public property. And the OP made no distinction between MOC members and non members.

    Make no mistake please... I am grateful to Danny's for being stand up guys... and I would hope that if someone showed up with a LG against Danny's wishes that the MOC leadership would be involved and assist Danny's in what ever way was legal and possible.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Red face Ding Ding!

    Ah....now I get it, we just need clarity here. Sorry folks. For those that attend please do not bring long guns unless you have the permission of the the private business to do so {Danny's Pizza Shack}

    Danny's Pizza Shack
    http://dannyspizzashack.net/
    517.219.1002
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-05-2011 at 03:03 PM. Reason: links

  13. #13
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    The business owner, Danny's Pizza Shack, has the "right" to restrict the event to holstered handguns only. Or to "restrict" the event in any way the owner sees fit... and I'm sure the owner knows that very well.

    MOC has absolutely no "right" to restrict anything... MOC can "request" that folks behave in a certain manner at their events... but they cannot "require" it, unless they own Danny's.

    Not only that but the original post made mention that MOC now has a new "policy" of no LGOC at it's events... that would mean to me that it isn't just Danny's but any and all MOC events. ... even those held on public property. And the OP made no distinction between MOC members and non members.

    Make no mistake please... I am grateful to Danny's for being stand up guys... and I would hope that if someone showed up with a LG against Danny's wishes that the MOC leadership would be involved and assist Danny's in what ever way was legal and possible.
    If someone does not want to adhere to MOC policy on long gun carry at a sanctioned events (public or private) and decides to bring a long gun, they are no friend of MOC, and IMO they have no business being a member or having any association with MOC.

    I don't think very many members are ignorant of MOC's stance on LGOC.

    One does not join animalsarentfood.com and then go to a sanctioned meeting carrying a sack of White Castle Sliders to snack on.

    I would bet they and their sack would be escorted out immediately and the next day they would no longer be a member of that organization.

    please cite where MOC has "no "right" to restrict anything!" When it comes to an MOC sanctioned event, I would be curious to see what law this is.
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Question

    We are getting off track here guys, Bikenut's concern was is: MOC trying to enforce its policy on property it does not control as I understand it. I believe his concern has validity. MOC VP's response was no as I read it. So basically if you are a MOC member please follow the rules at MOC events. Pretty straight forward.

    Now if MOC was having an official event at a business somewhere & the owner says LGOC is ok (must do not) then it's a judgment call on the part of the membership as to what best serves our goals. I would say when in doubt ask questions often and frequently.

    Seriously - I am probably one of a small handful of MOC members who has ever LGOC'd and to be honest it's only worth while in certain circumstances. When possible we should choose the right tool for the job at hand, sometimes we may have to adjust our choices to make friends. The more friends we make the more support and the more public support we have, the more trust and validity our cause has.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-05-2011 at 07:13 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Oh yes. I was planning to invite the same reporter that did the WXYZ story. She seemed interested in OC, both professionally and personally.

    If she comes, consider the type of picture you want to portray to the press...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Oh yes. I was planning to incite the same reporter that did the WXYZ story. She seemed interested in OC, both professionally and personally.

    If she comes, consider the type of picture you want to portray to the press...
    Oh goody, I can show up in a dress with with a purse and everything.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    If someone does not want to adhere to MOC policy on long gun carry at a sanctioned events (public or private) and decides to bring a long gun, they are no friend of MOC, and IMO they have no business being a member or having any association with MOC.

    MOC can take action against a member who does not adhere to MOC policy. That action could be anything from a slap on the wrist to canceling membership. But MOC does not have the authority to "allow" or "disallow" anyone... not even members from exercising their rights... MOC can only punish members with disciplinary action.

    However... in the OP.. do you see any mention that the "allow" is limited to members only? The way it is worded it would appear that no one, member or not, will be "allowed" to carry anything other than a holstered pistol in accordance with MOC's new policy.

    I don't think very many members are ignorant of MOC's stance on LGOC.

    At this point in time I suspect there are very few folks, members or not, who are unaware of MOC's stance on LGOC.

    One does not join animalsarentfood.com and then go to a sanctioned meeting carrying a sack of White Castle Sliders to snack on.

    It may not be polite to snack on burgers at an animal rights event.. but you most certainly do have the right to do so regardless of the "opinions" of those who don't agree. And no one at that animal rights event has the authority, or the right, to dictate to anyone what they MUST eat... unless the event organizers have private property rights to the property the event is being held at/on.

    I would bet they and their sack would be escorted out immediately and the next day they would no longer be a member of that organization.

    Depends on if the event organizers had any legal standing to throw someone out. Of course they could still do it... and be sued later. As for canceling their membership... of course they can.

    please cite where MOC has "no "right" to restrict anything!" When it comes to an MOC sanctioned event, I would be curious to see what law this is.
    The 2nd Amendment doesn't contain any language that says MOC can restrict the RKBA at it's sanctioned events.

    Please cite the law, or the right, that gives MOC the authority to restrict any person legally exercising a right during an event ... sanctioned by MOC or not... on property MOC does not own.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  18. #18
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Edited: out of respect for the original poster
    Last edited by DetroitBiker; 03-05-2011 at 09:21 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Thank you all for respecting my attempt to promote OC by keeping this thread on track. I understand pushing the button that says "New Topic" is very difficult. Thanks to many of you who I have considered allies for respecting me.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    Maybe "The Q" can edit his post to say prefer not, instead of not allowed.
    Then the Drama queens wont get their panties in such a bunch.
    I changed the wording. If someone doesn't like the new wording, I don't give two sh*ts; they can go have coitus with themselves.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I changed the wording. If someone doesn't like the new wording, I don't give two sh*ts; they can go reproduce with themselves.
    Words have meaning. Poor choice of words are not conducive to conveying correct meanings.

    Griping at the messenger is pointless.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  22. #22
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Griping at the messenger is pointless.
    Ahhh. Then please realize I am merely the messenger of MOC's new policy. To the best of my knowledge, MOC hasn't drafted "official" language of their policy. I highly suggest they do so.

    I recall (and my human recollection may be incorrect) it being said on the board meeting, which was recorded, long guns wouldn't be "allowed". Maybe someone could go find the recording and post the exact words Robb and Scott used when discussing the new policy.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I started a new thread for you. Please have fun. Orrrr....just be a dick and keep talking about it in a thread that is about an OC event.....

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...like&p=1481062
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Ahhh. Then please realize I am merely the messenger of MOC's new policy. To the best of my knowledge, MOC hasn't drafted "official" language of their policy. I highly suggest they do so.

    I recall (and my human recollection may be incorrect) it being said on the board meeting, which was recorded, long guns wouldn't be "allowed". Maybe someone could go find the recording and post the exact words Robb and Scott used when discussing the new policy.
    Then please understand that I am merely the messenger pointing out that any gun rights activist group that adopts a policy restricting (not be "allowed") the right to bear arms loses a great deal of credibility.

    If you, or others, cannot understand that simple fact then please do continue to flame me and my attempts to point that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I started a new thread for you. Please have fun. Orrrr....just be a dick and keep talking about it in a thread that is about an OC event.....

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...like&p=1481062
    I didn't realize you had the authority to control who says what where.

    Oh... and name calling is generally reserved for folks who have lost the argument and can't think of a decent response.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I didn't call anyone a name, only a behavior. If you decide that name applies to you and take offense, that choice is beyond my control -- much like ppl carrying a long gun to Danny's.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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