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Join Michigan Open Carry for Pizza/Lunch on Sat. 4/9/2011 in Fowlerville

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Bikenut

Guest
TheQ said:
I changed the wording. If someone doesn't like the new wording, I don't give two sh*ts; they can go reproduce with themselves.
Click to expand...
Words have meaning. Poor choice of words are not conducive to conveying correct meanings.

Griping at the messenger is pointless.
 
TheQ

TheQ

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Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Bikenut said:
Griping at the messenger is pointless.
Click to expand...

Ahhh. Then please realize I am merely the messenger of MOC's new policy. To the best of my knowledge, MOC hasn't drafted "official" language of their policy. I highly suggest they do so.

I recall (and my human recollection may be incorrect) it being said on the board meeting, which was recorded, long guns wouldn't be "allowed". Maybe someone could go find the recording and post the exact words Robb and Scott used when discussing the new policy.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
TheQ said:
Ahhh. Then please realize I am merely the messenger of MOC's new policy. To the best of my knowledge, MOC hasn't drafted "official" language of their policy. I highly suggest they do so.

I recall (and my human recollection may be incorrect) it being said on the board meeting, which was recorded, long guns wouldn't be "allowed". Maybe someone could go find the recording and post the exact words Robb and Scott used when discussing the new policy.
Click to expand...

Then please understand that I am merely the messenger pointing out that any gun rights activist group that adopts a policy restricting (not be "allowed") the right to bear arms loses a great deal of credibility.

If you, or others, cannot understand that simple fact then please do continue to flame me and my attempts to point that out.

TheQ said:
I started a new thread for you. Please have fun. Orrrr....just be a dick and keep talking about it in a thread that is about an OC event.....

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...d-MOC-s-new-LGOC-Policy-if-you-like&p=1481062
Click to expand...

I didn't realize you had the authority to control who says what where.

Oh... and name calling is generally reserved for folks who have lost the argument and can't think of a decent response.
 
TheQ

TheQ

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Messages
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Lansing, Michigan
I didn't call anyone a name, only a behavior. If you decide that name applies to you and take offense, that choice is beyond my control -- much like ppl carrying a long gun to Danny's.
 
Onnie

Onnie

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664
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Maybee, Michigan
Bikenut said:
The 2nd Amendment doesn't contain any language that says MOC can restrict the RKBA at it's sanctioned events.

Please cite the law, or the right, that gives MOC the authority to restrict any person legally exercising a right during an event ... sanctioned by MOC or not... on property MOC does not own.
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2ND amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

As written in the Constitution Deals only with the actions of the US Government towards its citizenry. It does not mention anything about individuals, groups of individuals or organizations with in the general population. Now there may be some law that may override that, if so please cite.

But You can't turn the battle back to me when you cant cite.

Their right would be under the 1st amendment: Freedom of Speech and the right to assemble

As with open carry laws in Michigan, MOC can restrict LGOC at sanction functions because their is no law preventing or restricting MOC from doing so. (if I am wrong please cite). I will concede there are some restrictions such as saying certain people of ethnic background may not attend, but that is a totally different subject

Private Clubs and organizations that exist today are for the most part narrow focused on one point of interest. MOC point of interest IMO is for the legal open carry of handguns.

If you belong to the purple shirt club, would you show up a meeting wearing a blue shirt. If you did, the flier for the next event will probably read "no blue shirts allowed"
Their function is to focus on the wearing of purple shirts....if someone can not conform to their rules and bylaws, they should not attend events or if necessary not be a member.

now if the purple shirt club allowed blue shirts people in the club, knowing they were blue shirt people and they expanded their bylaws to focus on blue and purple shirts and then one day they STOPPED allowing blue shirt people from wearing blue shirts during events, then I say you would be correct, the purple shirt club have no rights to restrict the wearing of blue shirts, but that is not the case here as I see it.

In my short time in MOC they have always promoted OC of handguns and have put forth that was their agenda. While not stopping those who carry long guns from joining and being a member of the club, they were straight forward the LGOC was not their point of focus.

MOC has the RIGHT under the 1st amendment to gather without out government interference and to focus on their agenda. If they want to restrict LGOC at sanctioned functions, its their right under the first amendment to say so. IMO

please cite to the contrary and I will gladly accept that i am wrong
 
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B

Bikenut

Guest
Onnie said:
2ND amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

As written in the Constitution Deals only with the actions of the US Government towards its citizenry. It does not mention anything about individuals, groups of individuals or organizations with in the general population. Now there may be some law that may override that, if so please cite.

But You can't turn the battle back to me when you cant cite.

Their right would be under the 1st amendment: Freedom of Speech and the right to assemble

Funny how you mention that the 2nd Amendment only applies to the Federal Government yet assert that the 1st Amendment gives MOC the power to restrict the actions of... individuals.

You see, while MOC has the right to assemble in a certain place wearing certain objects... so do I have that right to assemble in the same place wearing other objects.
As with open carry laws in Michigan, MOC can restrict LGOC at sanction functions because their is no law preventing or restricting MOC from doing so. (if I am wrong please cite). I will concede there are some restrictions such as saying certain people of ethnic background may not attend, but that is a totally different subject

Is MOC a LE agency? What law gives them the authority? Please cite the laws that allow such a thing.

MOC can request everyone honor MOC's mission statement. MOC can impose penalties within the organization itself upon any member who does not honor that statement. MOC does not have the right nor the authority to impose it's mission statement on anyone else with any kind of penalty. If you think they do please cite the laws that give them that authority.
Private Clubs and organizations that exist today are for the most part narrow focused on one point of interest. MOC point of interest IMO is for the legal open carry of handguns.

If you belong to the purple shirt club, would you show up a meeting wearing a blue shirt. If you did, the flier for the next event will probably read "no blue shirts allowed"
Their function is to focus on the wearing of purple shirts....if someone can not conform to their rules and bylaws, they should not attend events or if necessary not be a member.

now if the purple shirt club allowed blue shirts people in the club, knowing they were blue shirt people and they expanded their bylaws to focus on blue and purple shirts and then one day they STOPPED allowing blue shirt people from wearing blue shirts during events, then I say you would be correct, the purple shirt club have no rights to restrict the wearing of blue shirts, but that is not the case here as I see it.

In my short time in MOC they have always promoted OC of handguns and have put forth that was their agenda. While not stopping those who carry long guns from joining and being a member of the club, they were straight forward the LGOC was not their point of focus.

MOC has the RIGHT under the 1st amendment to gather without out government interference and to focus on their agenda. If they want to restrict LGOC at sanctioned functions, its their right under the first amendment to say so. IMO

You said part of that correctly in that MOC has the right to gather peacefully without government interference ......

Again you would use the 1st Amendment to piss on the 2nd Amendment while trying to tell me that the 2nd Amendment only applies to the Federal Government but the 1st Amendment gives MOC the right to tell people what they can carry in a public place because the simple fact that MOC sanctioned the event taking place is what gives them the authority to restrict the 2nd Amendment.

Please cite what laws give MOC this authority...

I won't bother to hold my breath.
please cite to the contrary and I will gladly accept that i am wrong
Click to expand...

So you are saying that just because MOC declares an OC luncheon at an open to the public restaurant owned by someone other than MOC to be an official "sanctioned" event then MOC can not only legally "require" it's members to not exercise their 2nd Amendment right to legally carry a firearm other than a pistol... but it can also require the rest of the general public who attend this "sanctioned event" to also not exercise their 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm other than a pistol?

Please cite where MOC would be given the legal authority to create a LG free zone with the simple action of "sanctioning an event"?

Again I won't hold my breath because if this were so then any organization of any kind could declare any place open to the public a "firearm free zone" because that fits their mission statement and their policy... just because they are having a "sanctioned event" there.

You have stated that organizations have the right to do the above... please prove your assertion with cites.
 
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B

Bikenut

Guest
TheQ said:
I started a new thread for you. Please have fun. Orrrr....just be a dick and keep talking about it in a thread that is about an OC event.....

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...d-MOC-s-new-LGOC-Policy-if-you-like&p=1481062
Click to expand...

TheQ said:
I didn't call anyone a name, only a behavior. If you decide that name applies to you and take offense, that choice is beyond my control -- much like ppl carrying a long gun to Danny's.
Click to expand...
I see what you hope to do there....

And since this whole thing has degenerated to the point where there is name calling I'm going to leave it to those who apparently know better than I to continue trying to convince folks that their rights are somehow superseded and therefore able to be restricted by a private organization putting on a "sanctioned event" on property open to the public.

One other thing...

Thank you Danny's Pizza Shack for hosting an MOC official openly carried holstered pistols get together. Please understand that during all of my arguments I was not advocating or trying to convince anyone to bring any firearm other than a holstered pistol. My concern was the rights involved... and you, as property owner, have the right to decide what will be "allowed" ... not any organization that is having an event at your business.
 
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TheQ

TheQ

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RSVP'd From this Forum

RSVP'd: BigGayAl, cabman1, Venator, Glock9mmOldStyle, TheQ + 2

Maybe: RenkaiWulf, Onnie + 2

Please post to correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
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Location
Lansing, Michigan
The link on this OP that says "(Map)" is correct, as is the address Venator posted. The website for the pizza place is incorrect unless you want to ear cow pies as opposed to Pizza Pies.
 
TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
I have updated the Original Post to include the correct address and I got rid of the website link with the wrong map.

Google Maps has the address wrong, but the location on the map is right.
 
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