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Thread: East Lansing lawyer puts to rest open carry issue

  1. #1
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    East Lansing lawyer puts to rest open carry issue

    The lawyer who commented for this article isn't too bright.....

    http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/a...en-carry-issue

    Schneider: East Lansing lawyer puts to rest open carry issue

    EAST LANSING - Now that we've all accepted the premise that it's legal in Michigan to carry guns openly pretty much everywhere, East Lansing lawyer Shannan Kane steps forward to shout, "Drop 'em."

    Until Feb. 11, Kane worked for the Michigan Legislature's Legislative Analysis Unit. Kane says flatly: "Open carry is NOT legal in Michigan."
    This will come as a surprise to many - even Lansing police, who told me just a week ago that officers would not (and could not) arrest members of Michigan Open Carry who were bringing guns into the downtown branch of the Capital Area District Library.
    Why? Because, as Capt. Mike Yankowski put it, "State law trumps our local ordinance." State law singles out the places where guns can't be carried - schools, day care centers, churches, etc. - leaving many to conclude that places not specifically named are gun friendly, so to speak.
    (As it turned it, CADL got a temporary restraining order that, for the moment, bans guns from the library).
    As I pointed out in my Feb. 18 column, another state law - MCL 750.234e - outlaws "brandishing a firearm in public." Cops, hunters, target shooters, and gunsmiths (or people taking a gun for repairs, or buying/selling guns) are exempt.
    That's the law on which Kane pins her argument. She seems to have a good point because, as I noted on Feb. 18, "brandish" means, among other things, to "display ostentatiously," and it doesn't get any more ostentatious than carrying a shotgun into a library.
    "Open carry enthusiasts have convinced many people," Kane wrote, "that they have a right to open carry virtually anywhere in Michigan because 'there is no law against it.'"
    But, citing MCL 750.234e, Kane wrote: "People (minus the exceptions mentioned above) who display firearms in public commit the misdemeanor crime of brandishing a firearm in public ..."
    The law, Kane noted, doesn't specifically define "brandish."
    "Absent a definition," Kane wrote, "courts look to legislative history and to the dictionary. Both ... make clear that the legislature intended to ban openly-displayed firearms. (It) provided guidance on what is ostentatious and unlawful by including five exceptions to the ban, and specifying that except in those situations, a person may not brandish a firearm in public."
    She added: "Open-carry enthusiasts rely on an attorney general opinion ... that a reserve peace officer with a visible holstered weapon is NOT committing the crime of brandishing.
    "However, no Michigan court has ruled that a member of the general public is free to open carry. While a reserve peace officer's holstered weapon may not be ostentatiously displayed, the firearms brought to the Capital Area District Library in downtown Lansing by ... open carry fanatics certainly were. In my view, open carry enthusiasts are violating state law, and CADL deserves praise for standing up to them."
    Call John Schneider at 377-1175, send a fax to 377-1298 or e-mail jschneid@lsj.com.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Here we go.

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    I guess I missed that thread. I only saw the one for setting up transportation to the hearing.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    "However, no Michigan court has ruled that a member of the general public is free to open carry."
    Right.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    That Law-Yer needs to go back to their school and ask for a refund as they got ripped off,
    or they slept thru the classroom study course...

    They forgot to read that nasty sheet of paper The Constitution OH OH thats right libs only use the parts that they like, the rest isn't important !

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Not too bright, nor too classy. If she wants to call out actions she finds to be low class or immoral, she should at least have the sense to carefully think of polite things to say. Otherwise, in the eyes of people who agree with her she's stooping to a low she shouldn't be at, and of course in our eyes she's making it look like she's both poorly educated, and a raging, hateful zealot.

    She says no Michigan court has ruled in favor of open carry, well, other than when they have. Theszerdi, evil creamsicle, whats his name in Grand Haven, and I believe I'm forgetting a few more. And of course plenty more cases have been dropped by courts well before they ever went to trial.

    Perhaps she should be invited here to discuss these things with us.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I doubt she would show.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Worth a shot. She has a linkedin account. If anyone has a linkedin account and can contact her, please do ask her to register here and discuss these things with us. It would be really nice, perhaps even highly educational to have a publicly recorded conversation on this matter with her.

    It is nothing more than a matter of fact that no one in the state knows more about gun laws than we here do cumulatively, and if she thinks she can prove us wrong, well I'd like to see it, because as I always say I keep my mind open, and if she really wants to try to establish a precedent for OC being brandishing in spite of the AG opinion, the state and federal constitutions, and recent SCOTUS cases, maybe she can teach us something. If she refuses to discuss this issue with us, considering that she's the only person who feels this way I've ever heard of, at least among people with a legal background, I would take it as a form of admitting she knows she's wrong.

    If she refuses to publicly discuss it with us, that by itself would deserve a press release.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I don't use linkedin, but I sent her the following email, we'll see if she's willing to meet us here.

    Mrs. Kane, it has come to my attention that you seem to think that open carry is illegal, so I wanted to invite you to discuss this issue with the most educated people in the state regarding this issue. You can enter the discussion by entering our site, it's free, the discussion can be had on the thread in the following link, or you are always free to start your own thread topic on the issue. I hope to see you there, sincerely, stainless1911.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    So what is stopping some liberal judge form agreeing with this lady? It's not like they always rule according to the law. We had 4 SCOTUS judges vote no in Heller and McDonald? Do we know what judge this is going before?

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    Nothing.

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I posted this on the LSJ website:

    Hmm, Ms Kane must have chosen to ignore AG Opinion 3158 and it's reference to a MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT OPINION written by the late Wm. Potter. In this Opinion, it was stated that a law, in that case the "concealed weapons law", so construed to not allow for carrying a firearm openly would "amount to an infringement of the constitutional right of citizens to have and bear arms, since it would be impossible for one to have and bear about his person a pistol or weapon" without a license.
    But, I am pretty sure Ms Kane knew that this information was there and just chose to ignore it because she thinks herself above any legal authority. Publicly espouses "personal beliefs" about what she thinks the law should be when asked what the law is indicates that Ms Kane believes her thoughts somehow trump a decision from the Michigan Supreme Court regarding the issue, not to mention subsequent AG opinions. Sorry Ms Kane, YOUR opinion absent citation to authority is just that: an UNFOUNDED opinion.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I posted this on the LSJ website:

    Hmm, Ms Kane must have chosen to ignore AG Opinion 3158 and it's reference to a MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT OPINION written by the late Wm. Potter. In this Opinion, it was stated that a law, in that case the "concealed weapons law", so construed to not allow for carrying a firearm openly would "amount to an infringement of the constitutional right of citizens to have and bear arms, since it would be impossible for one to have and bear about his person a pistol or weapon" without a license. ...
    I had read that. Well said.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    more on the subject

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    Yes a great and vary surprising update.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    geez, how many times are we going to have to smack down this same spammer. reported.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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