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Thread: I Was Racking My Brain and...

  1. #1
    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    I Was Racking My Brain and...

    I came up with a question to bring to the table:

    Is it illegal for me to have a shoulder-holster instead of a waist-level belt holster, or a drop-leg holster?

    Please see the attachment...
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    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    I came up with a question to bring to the table:

    Is it illegal for me to have a shoulder-holster instead of a waist-level belt holster, or a drop-leg holster?

    Please see the attachment...
    Two questions;

    1) Would it be concealed or exposed?
    2) Where is the muzzle pointed when it is holstered?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  3. #3
    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Answering your questions (since I've been issued a holster like this):

    1.) It isn't concealed - it's an external holster...

    2.) The muzzle pointed at the user(s) preference...
    Last edited by DooFster; 03-02-2011 at 05:22 PM.
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

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    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    I came up with a question to bring to the table:

    Is it illegal for me to have a shoulder-holster instead of a waist-level belt holster, or a drop-leg holster?

    Please see the attachment...
    12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:
    (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
    being concealed upon the person.
    (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    (f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

    That said I have seen many people using thigh rigs but always with an attachment to there belt as far as shoulder holsters go you might get away with it if it has an attachment to your belt and then again, they may say your arm was concealing it. I would not want to be the crash test dummy on this one.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    The penal code usually tells what is illegal. pc 12025 (f) is just a clarification of what's concealed and what isn't. I can't find anything about shoulder holsters, so I would think it's ok as long as your shirt of jacket doesn't cover it. Most shoulder rigs have a strap to the belt to keep things from flopping around.
    Don't confuse "not visible" with concealed. Sitting in a car....standing behind a 5 ft wall.
    I carry my pmk at 3 o'clock and when I put my hand in my pocket, it's not visible from the front.

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    I carry my pmk at 3 o'clock and when I put my hand in my pocket, it's not visible from the front.
    I will concede to you my statement on belt attachment but the law often looks to the dictionary for clarification on words, as you stated when you put your hands in your pockets your gun is not visible I.E your arm covers it. I know it's just a technicality but its one that could get you a ride downtown

    con·ceal   
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to hide; withdraw or remove from observation; cover or keep from sight:

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    Answering your questions (since I've been issued a holster like this):

    1.) It isn't concealed - it's an external holster...

    2.) The muzzle pointed at the user(s) preference...
    It was my hope that you would be able to draw your own conclusions about the wisdom of carrying in a shoulder holster. Since a shoulder holster absent any covering garment is not concealing the presense of the firearm, it is not illegal. However, the direction that a shoulder holster points the muzzle is something that I believe we should all be conscious of. It is in my opinion, that without consideration of muzzle discipline, you should not use a shoulder holster while openly carrying.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC KIMBER View Post
    I will concede to you my statement on belt attachment but the law often looks to the dictionary for clarification on words, as you stated when you put your hands in your pockets your gun is not visible I.E your arm covers it. I know it's just a technicality but its one that could get you a ride downtown

    con·ceal   
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to hide; withdraw or remove from observation; cover or keep from sight:
    I guess I need a "on top my head" holster.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    I guess I need a "on top my head" holster.
    +1
    When I'm carrying my XD9SC (a pretty small gun) at 3 o'clock and I'm walking my arm naturally swings. Are you trying to say every time that my arm swings in front of the pistol that it's concealed? I thinketh not. If that was considered "concealed" then we would have all been hauled to the clink long ago.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  10. #10
    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    I COULD point it 45-down and draw it from the side obviously.

    So there's no law saying I CAN'T but there's no law saying I CAN?? I should bring this up to local PD...

    This exact holster does not have the ability to be hooked to my belt unless I'm wearing my full set of armor plating (AD USAF) and other combat gear...
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

  11. #11
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    but there's no law saying I CAN??
    As I'm sure you know Penal Codes tell you what you can't do, not what you can. We'd have EVEN MORE codes if everything we could do had to be quantified.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  12. #12
    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Now that I completely look more in-depth at the attachment, you can't adjust the holster (must be a newer model than what I was issued). It looks as if it points straight-down from the user.
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

  13. #13
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    So there's no law saying I CAN'T but there's no law saying I CAN?? I should bring this up to local PD...
    I can't see any reason why you should bring anything up to the local PD. Unless you are determined to organize an event where multiple participants are involved, I wouldn't bother creating any more resistance than is already out there. This goes back to contacting the police for legal advice-it's not their specialty and most of them aren't very good at it outside of reading 'Miranda'.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    One should never "ask permission" to excercise a right...
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  15. #15
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    One should never "ask permission" to excercise a right...
    And one should always be adamant to assert their Natural Rights, as opposed to "legal" rights [aka European Rights].

    Also worthy of a repost:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY
    Last edited by demnogis; 03-07-2011 at 03:35 PM.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Laws do not tell what is allowed, only what is not allowed.

    This horse that is this topic has been beaten so many times...

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