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Man attacked while OC?

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
A person crazy enough or criminal enough to attack a law-abiding OC'er was a ticking time bomb who was going to be triggered by any number of things, or triggered by nothing at all, and attack SOMEONE.

These incidents are rare but prove that, yes, there are very crazy people out there and you need to be situationally aware (no matter how you carry or even if you don't) and able to defend against them.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Nooo!!!

This IS a real gun grab!!!
the bad guy was NOT a dea agent! he was a deranged psycho!
the bad guy targeted the open carrier because he had an exposed gun!
the bad guy used the ruse of being LEO to try to get the gun!

as an aside,,, the open carrier is in trouble with the law because,
in new mexico, you can only carry concealed with a CPL in a place
that sells alcohol, you cannot open carry in those places!


history,,,
3 years ago, a forum member called anti506, a young wannabe LEO,
wrote the he had been gun grabbed, this was never confirmed,
he went on to kill a man in a drug buy/bust gone bad, this was confirmed!

2 years ago, a guy reported that he had been held up,
and his gun was stolen,
the story fell apart and he confessed that it was all a lie,
his gun was safely hidden at home!

1 years ago, a guy in Wisconsin,
got robbed at gun point, of his wallet and open carried gun,
the story was reported by the media, but there was no corroborating witnesses,
it was widely believed that it was a setup fake robbery,
meant to push for concealed carry rights!
 
Last edited:

Loneviking

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
344
Location
Carson City, Nevada, USA
I don't think this counts as a true "I'm gunna get your gun cuz I want your gun" type of attack. Torres was mental according to the report....sucks for Garcia though. In this case, I will state that deep CCW should have been the rule that day for Garcia.

And how in the world do you know that today is the day that a deranged nut is going to confront you? The answer is that you don't!

What this story shows is a couple of things:

1. Just because you OC doesn't mean the bad guys automatically leave you alone. You'd better have a few more options to deal with nutcases than a gun. Learn to fight, learn to physically handle yourself in a confrontation. Cops, who do open carry...who do have backup are attacked on a regular basis and there's no reason to think anyone is immune from these nuts.

2. Get a retention holster! Here, the gun winds up on the floor!! Don't be carrying in those cheap, nylon holsters that wobble around on the belt. Get quality, (and yes it's expensive) retention capable holsters.

And finally, situational awareness. The guy comes in and announces that he is DEA? Without flashing his creds? Cops don't do this and yet this guy allowed this nut to close with him!
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
One of the hazards of OC is that the police will unreasonably harass OCers. This will continue until OC is once again normalized.

This does not qualify as a "gun grab" or as an OCer targeted first by a BG. What, on the surface, it qualifies as is a gross violation of an LAC's rights by a LEO. (However, if the agent did indeed have evidence of the OCer's intent to rob the restaurant (Ha!), then this could be a justifiable (yeah, right) law enforcement action.)

If one wants to put forth the argument that OCers being harassed by LEOs is a reason not to OC, then this story would serve as a stark example. (However, that LEOs would harass citizens for a lawful activity, to me, is a reason to participate in that lawful activity, in order to bring about an end to that harassment.) But, the arguments that this anecdote is being used to support is that (1) OCers are more subject to "gun grabs" than CCers are and that (2) OC makes a person the first target of a BG trying to commit a crime in the area. The above story supports neither of those arguments.

Not sure, but I think you probably just skimmed article Eye. The man who attacked the gentleman OC had mental problems and only claimed he was DEA.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
Defender, I was under the impression that attack in WI was real. How creditable are the allegations of a set-up? I would appreciate any info.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
well,,

Defender, I was under the impression that attack in WI was real. How creditable are the allegations of a set-up? I would appreciate any info.

no corroborating witness, and it seemed too pat.
the OCer made a habit of showing off his gun, and walked in bad areas of town, for no good reason.
wasnt situationally aware, and said he had to help the robber operate his holster.
the comparisons to the fake robbery seemed too convenient.
although, a trusted poster vouched for the robbed guy, but he would never speak up for himself!
even if it was not a fake setup robbery,
the guy seemed to be actively asking for just that kind of trouble.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
thank you SavageOne, for quoting eye95 post, i was shocked that he would delete it!
normally he is up for a good discussion, but i guess he was wrong enough this time to quit!


I would have to guess that his initial response was a simple mistake from simply skimming the article. I know in the past there have been times I have done the same thing. I would like to hear his and others reactions to this story, since it does seem to be a legitimate incident.

We will only lose creditability with our detractors if we stick our heads in the sand and don't give this an honest look.
 

DevinWKuska

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
300
Location
Spanaway
I think there are a few issues with this story.
#1 the guy was carrying illegaly, hopefully because he was ignorant to a specific law and not out of outright disregard for the law as this could damage OC in the public eye.

#2 like I think someone else pointed out his holster IMO had to have been sub-par for his gun to fall out. Now I do realize the two wrestled a bit so it is forseeable that if it had a retention strap it could have been un-done. or if its like the bladetech holster I have perphaps the two hit the release button. EIther way guys good reminder to make sure your firearms are "secured" at all times eh?

RE: Eye95 comments... Eye IMO is a very detail oriented person I suspect his comment was again from skimming through the article. I dont think Eye's comment would have been posted if he had read the whole document. Eye is usually too good to make sucha mistake. Besides... he, like many ofyou is my brother from another mother... Cheers!
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Anytime knows you are carrying be it open or concealed there is a real threat that someone may try and take it.
We hear about it with law enforcement at times.
In Seattle a couple of years ago where a person armed went to draw a weapon and the fight for control of the weapon ensued and a couple of people where hit by a round that was discharged. (note it appeared he should not have brought the gun into the situation but he did).
Most accept the concept that most self defense situations are with in 21 feet and much closer, why would it not be conceivable that your gun maybe taken away and our need to take steps to prevent just that.
I know in saying that it is hard to say that open carry prevents crimes, people prevent crimes not open display.

While there are those that will argue this point we must ask why do we always recommend using a level 2 security holster?
 

OrangeIsTrouble

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,398
Location
Tukwila, WA, ,
Serpa lvl 2 cross draw, 15% oleoresin capisicum, legal BIRKER knife, some canine teeth, complete with titanium elbow to the face.

Bring it on street scum!
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
I had read a couple years ago about a town in the western part of the country (I think) where a group of BGs were targeting people who had clip on knives. They would jump out armed front and back and shake down the victim, relieving him of his knife, wallet, and fairly often a gun. The report was that it had happened several times.

Is this one of the faked stories?
 

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
I read this article before and thought he was the restaurant owner. lol.

Bad situation though.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Looks like his firearm failed as a self defense tool...

Would you expand on this concept of the firearm failed as a self defense tool? As with anything else we usually discuss or refer to it is not the gun it is the person and in this case I think it still applies.
We need to also acknowledge the LAC (legally armed citizen) will not always come out on top even though we hope they will.

Granted he was in violation of NM Law on open carrying in this establishment that serves alcohol but the greater part of it could be situational awareness, weapons retention, physical self defense and of course the firearm.
Likely this guy got to close before steps were taken to prevent him from attacking.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
This is actually why I try to avoid sitting strong-side out at a table.

While I do maintain that OC is a deterrent, when immobile at a table one is much more vulnerable. I prefer for my gun to not be the first thing a shady person sees when he walks in.

Walking down the street, it's a different story. If I happen to run across, while walking around, a group ready to jump out of their cars and rob me at gunpoint, I guess they get my gun. This is pretty much what it would take to disarm me while I'm on foot.
 
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