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Man attacked while OC?

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
Off Topic

I was under the impression that LAC= Law Abiding Citizen. Above, LAC is referenced as "Legally Armed Citizen." What is it?
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I was under the impression that LAC= Law Abiding Citizen. Above, LAC is referenced as "Legally Armed Citizen." What is it?

LAC was "law abiding citizen" long before a few started using it for "legally armed citizen." When I see LAC, I assume the former.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
I was surprised at first that some many of the 4-digit worth of posts members were being so quite about this story. There are many here who don't seem to have a problem giving their opinions on any and every subject, yet they remain strangely quiet on this.

Originally, Eye95 posted on this story. I believed his post was simply the result of just skimming the article not actually reading the facts as presented. He deleted the post and stated it had been a mistake. He gave no other opinion on this subject. I thought it strange that he didn't seem to have an opinion on this, but knowing that he and I have had rather heated debates, I assumed that he simply didn't want to discuss this since I had posted it. Imagine my shock when I find in a posting today Eye95 stating that there is a "lack of reports to date" to support this happening.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?87667-LEOs-Super-Human-think-not!


So, is that how the "majority" are going to deal with this? Instead of actually acknowledging it simply say these kinds of things "almost never" happen. Remain silent and ignore that it has? When we get into debates with those that oppose OC how will our creditability suffer for this?

I believe this was an isolated incident that is not indicative of normal events for someone who choses to OC. If I, like some here seem to be want to do, remain silent and don't admit that, it has in fact happened then all my arguments in favor of OC will come off as hollow and false. I won't do that as I think it hurts us more than it helps. I hope there are a few others out there that feel the same.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I was surprised at first that some many of the 4-digit worth of posts members were being so quite about this story. There are many here who don't seem to have a problem giving their opinions on any and every subject, yet they remain strangely quiet on this.

Originally, Eye95 posted on this story. I believed his post was simply the result of just skimming the article not actually reading the facts as presented. He deleted the post and stated it had been a mistake. He gave no other opinion on this subject. I thought it strange that he didn't seem to have an opinion on this, but knowing that he and I have had rather heated debates, I assumed that he simply didn't want to discuss this since I had posted it. Imagine my shock when I find in a posting today Eye95 stating that there is a "lack of reports to date" to support this happening.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?87667-LEOs-Super-Human-think-not!


So, is that how the "majority" are going to deal with this? Instead of actually acknowledging it simply say these kinds of things "almost never" happen. Remain silent and ignore that it has? When we get into debates with those that oppose OC how will our creditability suffer for this?

I believe this was an isolated incident that is not indicative of normal events for someone who choses to OC. If I, like some here seem to be want to do, remain silent and don't admit that, it has in fact happened then all my arguments in favor of OC will come off as hollow and false. I won't do that as I think it hurts us more than it helps. I hope there are a few others out there that feel the same.

Any computer security expert will tell you that there is no way to eliminate risk. A tightening in one area creates a relative loosening in another.

The way to approach security is with what is known as a threat model.

Simply put, what is your threat model?

While there are recorded instances of criminals targeting people they suspect to be armed (doesn't seem like a career with a long future), and there is this crazy guy who, well, I don't know exactly what he was trying to do... statistically, most crime is at neither extreme: it is rarely schizophrenically spontaneous nor calculatedly well-planned and executed.

My threat model is this: At some random time, some random criminal or criminals of average or above-average capability want to take someone's, potentially my, wallet, or break into my house and take my stuff. It's pretty clear that, for the run-of-the-mill, average criminal who wants a wallet, open carry will serve as a deterrent and, if it fails to do so, provides readier deployment. (For the home scenario it seems to make less tactical difference, and comfort factors into it more.)

While its conceivable some other, harder criminal might be partly incentivized by the presence of a gun, he still has a very serious consideration to make with regard to a cocked and locked 1911 in a quick-draw level II+ retention holster. A criminal who isn't afraid of that won't go long before learning why he ought to be, the hard way. Is it safe to bet that guy doesn't practice ultra-fast point shooting after a quick-draw? Or that he isn't a pro who can make aimed fire just as fast as the point shooter? Those are crappy bets to make, considering the stakes. Criminals are opportunists, not heroes of arch-villianry.

If you're a spy, or your heroic tacticool fantasy revolves around obscure and unlikely contingencies, well, then you may decide otherwise.


Edit: By the way, this is eye95 you're talking about. I would venture that he has, in general, less rather than more respect amongst the rest of the "four digit post counters". I consider him a sophist of the highest order, and say so freely.
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
The guys was batspit crazy!!!

Still rarely going to happen. Other than that it still is rarely ever going to happen. And shouldn't have here. The man at the table might have mistaken the guy who announced himself as an LEO as an LEO. That might have been the cause of the hesitation. Who knows I wasn't there and the details are a little sketchy.

Type of criminals:

Casual, career, psychopath this seems to be the later and is a rarity both casual or career criminals have an inherit desire to preserve life and are more than likely to ever be cautious about approaching armed "victims".
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I had read a couple years ago about a town in the western part of the country (I think) where a group of BGs were targeting people who had clip on knives. They would jump out armed front and back and shake down the victim, relieving him of his knife, wallet, and fairly often a gun. The report was that it had happened several times.

I find this hard to believe without real corroboration.

I mean, I understand the insinuation: criminals have figured out that the same kind of personality who carries a pocket knife may also carry a gun, instant $500+.

Awful convenient. Also sounds highly impracticable.

I mean, really. Driving around, and looking for half an inch of knife sticking out of someone's pocket? And, what, three months of this nets you a gun?

Do you believe it?
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
I find this hard to believe without real corroboration.

I mean, I understand the insinuation: criminals have figured out that the same kind of personality who carries a pocket knife may also carry a gun, instant $500+.

Awful convenient. Also sounds highly impracticable.

I mean, really. Driving around, and looking for half an inch of knife sticking out of someone's pocket? And, what, three months of this nets you a gun?

A gun that DOESN'T end up pointed at you, followed by perforation?

That doesn't seem like the kind of thing a criminal would bank on...

No, I don't believe it. Nor does any other thinking person.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
savageone said:
I was under the impression that attack in WI was real. How creditable are the allegations of a set-up?
1245A Defender said:
no corroborating witness, and it seemed too pat.
the OCer made a habit of showing off his gun, and walked in bad areas of town, for no good reason... the guy seemed to be actively asking for just that kind of trouble.
Even the media found a witness, some local gal with an exotic made-up name.
As for why he was walking around there, he lived there. Some people do live in bad neighborhoods. Good enough reason for me.
"Showing off" is the rule here - we're required to OC. Only the criminals & police can conceal.
And yes, the Pres of WI Carry talked with the guy, who is a member.
 
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