Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: Business owners rights

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    720

    Business owners rights

    So, most if not all states have some type of business owners rights clause so business owners can ask you to leave.

    My question is, is there a difference between "You can't carry a gun in here." and "You will have to leave as long as you wish to carry a firearm in the store."

    It may be arguing semantics, but if someone says you can't do something, and you can, it seems like an open invitation for education.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Richmond VA, ,
    Posts
    9,085
    If you want to argue the finer points of semantics and grammer regarding your scenario you will be provided an opportunity in a special debateing hall - it's called the local courthouse.

    It's apparent that you know the intended meaning of both statements, and I'm guessing that you are aware that refusing to comply with either one does violate the basic tenents of trespass law.

    The type of "education" you are aiming to impart is usually reserved for small children who are still learning the basic operations of both language and logic. You might be better served by trying for a discussion with the business owner about the differences between law-abiding persons who openly carry and criminals who do not openly carry, or the differences between perception of an inert object and overt behavior.

    stay safe.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,093
    They don't need a "business owner's rights clause." Absent a law stating that a private property owner may not deny others entering with a gun, such would be lawful. The way our laws work is that they are essentially a list of things folks may not do.

    These private property owners are merely exercising their natural right to enjoy their property. While I cannot respect their decision to ban carry, their right to make such a decision must be respected.

    It is through the defense of the rights of others that we best protect our own. I firmly defend the right of property owners to choose whether or not to allow guns on their property.

  4. #4
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,757
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    They don't need a "business owner's rights clause." Absent a law stating that a private property owner may not deny others entering with a gun, such would be lawful. The way our laws work is that they are essentially a list of things folks may not do.

    These private property owners are merely exercising their natural right to enjoy their property. While I cannot respect their decision to ban carry, their right to make such a decision must be respected.

    It is through the defense of the rights of others that we best protect our own. I firmly defend the right of property owners to choose whether or not to allow guns on their property.
    Nice response; I agree completely.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  5. #5
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Agreed.

    I was coming in to post a brilliant counter to the OP but I can see it's been taken care of by two of the forum's more eloquent responders.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Englewood, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    620
    If a business has its customers “Walk-In” to purchase their products or services, then even though it is a “PRIVATE” business, it is still ‘OPEN TO THE PUBLIC”. The key word …PUBLIC. Business owners should know that there will be people who come into their business that will dress differently, be of a different ethnic or religious background or maybe even of a different sex or sexual preference, which they may not agree with. So as long as the customer is not doing anything illegal, unhealthy, or unsafe they should be allowed entrance to the business.

    Think of these two situations:

    #1: I walk into a store and slip and fall on the wet floor, I can sue the business. Why..? They failed to properly provide for my safety. They put me into a situation that I had little or no control over, I was injured and therefore the laws of this state allow me to sue them.

    #2: I open my own business. I post a sign on the door that says, “NO BLACKS, JEWS OR WOMEN”
    Now how long will it take for any one of those groups of people to file a discrimination law suit against me? Then when I lose in court (which there is no doubt in my mind I will lose), how long will it take the judge to tell me to “TAKE THOSE SIGNS DOWN...!” I’m sure just shortly after he says “GUILTY OF DISCRIMINATION.!”

    Now here in Ohio, business owners are exempt from prosecution when it relates to firearms. Why..?

    I can sue your business if I fall on a wet floor, a situation which I can’t control.

    I can’t sue, if you post a sign denying me a right to carry my firearm, a situation where I could have done something about, if I was allowed to exercise my right to self defense.

    We have the “Right” not to be discriminated against. We have the “Right to Keep and Bear Arms”, but why is a business owner that is “OPEN TO THE PUBLIC” allowed to discriminate against me.?
    Am I not being discriminated against just by the fact I am wearing a firearm.

    Think about it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    720
    I guess what I'm really trying to ask, is if there is certain verbage that business owners should be using to indicate they don't want you in their store?

    I know that once asked to leave, if you don't you can have trespass charges filed against you. But there is a difference between "...you can't carry in here..." and a sidelong glance with a clearing of the throat.

    I assume most business owners will either be very blunt about it or will simply call LE to deal with it for them.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,093
    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnck View Post
    ...Think about it.
    I have thought about this precise topic, about business owners being able to deny some, since I was an immature thinker in high school and until now, when I have more information and a much better capacity to synthesize and evaluate that information. Please do not imply that your original thought has not been cogitated on before. It has been. Extensively. By many. In my case, over the course of the last forty years, since I errantly believed that my thought was somehow "original" or "enlightened." My position started where yours is, but now is thoroughly opposed to my old stance (not to imply that mature thinking can only result in my position, but neither can it produce only yours.)

    This is the result of my thinking:

    Even if you open your private property to the "public," you do not have to invite the entire public; you have always been able to, and may now, place restrictions on the public that you invite. Absent specific law (case or black-letter) regarding whom you may not exclude (protected classes), you are free to revoke the license you generally issued to the "public" for whatever reason you choose.

    IMO, laws protecting classes are an unconstitutional infringement on one's enumerated and natural right to be secure in his property. While I won't do it, abhor the practice, and will, within my rights and respecting theirs, sanction those who practice it, I absolutely defend one's right to discriminate, using any basis they choose, in their personal dealings and in any offers they make to the "public."

  9. #9
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    I guess what I'm really trying to ask, is if there is certain verbage that business owners should be using to indicate they don't want you in their store?

    I know that once asked to leave, if you don't you can have trespass charges filed against you. But there is a difference between "...you can't carry in here..." and a sidelong glance with a clearing of the throat.

    I assume most business owners will either be very blunt about it or will simply call LE to deal with it for them.
    There is no federal regulation or law covering the subject, which makes it a state issue by default.

    In that case, you have to check the individual state statutes for your answer. Different states require different things. Some states have very specific language for signage and others basically leave it up to the owners.

    In NC, statutes merely state that the sign, if posted, should be placed in a conspicuous location that a person could reasonably see upon entering a building (paraphrased). It is silent on how big the letters should be, what color the words should be, what symbols should be used, where exactly the sign should be posted, etc. There is no state-mandated uniformity in that regard.

    Other states may contain more specific guidance, or possibly even less. Add to that the possibility of different county, city, or other locally-borne ordinances, too.

    The "punishment" for violating such ordinances is widely different depending on the state involved, as well.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 03-07-2011 at 10:33 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sierra Vista, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnck View Post
    If a business has its customers “Walk-In” to purchase their products or services, then even though it is a “PRIVATE” business, it is still ‘OPEN TO THE PUBLIC”. The key word …PUBLIC. Business owners should know that there will be people who come into their business that will dress differently, be of a different ethnic or religious background or maybe even of a different sex or sexual preference, which they may not agree with. So as long as the customer is not doing anything illegal, unhealthy, or unsafe they should be allowed entrance to the business.

    Think of these two situations:

    #1: I walk into a store and slip and fall on the wet floor, I can sue the business. Why..? They failed to properly provide for my safety. They put me into a situation that I had little or no control over, I was injured and therefore the laws of this state allow me to sue them.

    #2: I open my own business. I post a sign on the door that says, “NO BLACKS, JEWS OR WOMEN”
    Now how long will it take for any one of those groups of people to file a discrimination law suit against me? Then when I lose in court (which there is no doubt in my mind I will lose), how long will it take the judge to tell me to “TAKE THOSE SIGNS DOWN...!” I’m sure just shortly after he says “GUILTY OF DISCRIMINATION.!”

    Now here in Ohio, business owners are exempt from prosecution when it relates to firearms. Why..?

    I can sue your business if I fall on a wet floor, a situation which I can’t control.

    I can’t sue, if you post a sign denying me a right to carry my firearm, a situation where I could have done something about, if I was allowed to exercise my right to self defense.

    We have the “Right” not to be discriminated against. We have the “Right to Keep and Bear Arms”, but why is a business owner that is “OPEN TO THE PUBLIC” allowed to discriminate against me.?
    Am I not being discriminated against just by the fact I am wearing a firearm.

    Think about it.
    Perhaps you should wonder why places are allowed to say that no shoes, no shirt, no service. Isn't that also the discrimination you are saying shouldn't be done?

  11. #11
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Basically it comes down to respect toward rights. If we expect others to give due accordance to our rights, we better be prepared to give the same in return. No one's rights are more important than anyone else's, in my opinion.

    Just as we have the right to carry (and with it the restrictions that come), others have the right to conduct business on their property as they see fit within the established laws.

    To consider our rights any more pertinent than theirs would be pretty vain.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    EDITED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack removed.

    [This is] the difference between private and business property.....

    He is trying to describe 2 things at once..... and it does not work, If you open a business and only want to allow certain people into that business... that is called a PRIVATE club.... and is no longer a business open to the public ........ so his argument is NOT VALID. Many have tried to get him to wrap his mind around that, be he doesnt seem to be able to...
    Last edited by axeanda45; 03-07-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    So, let me get this straight... according to SOME of you posting on this thread, MY God-given human rights do not exist on your private property? They magically disappear once I cross that property line?

    Really? But didnt you INVITE me ONTO your property as a business owner? According to some of you, once someone goes onto property that belongs to someone else, only THEIR rules apply.... Let's see how that works out once you ACTUALLY think it through.....

    Under your thinking/rules..... If someone comes onto YOUR BUSINESS property (or even private, doesnt matter) YOU can require ANY or all of their rights INVALID....... So, if a good looking woman walks into YOUR yard (its YOUR property, right???) YOU can rape her with impunity if YOU want to? You can make anyone do anything you desire on YOUR Property? YOUR yard, YOUR rules, RIGHT??????

    If you, as a property owner (private or business) have the "right" to disarm me, then you ALSO have the "right" to deny me ANY of my other "rights" as you want, there is NO middle ground here, either I have "Rights" or I dont.

    No, your way of thinking on this is wrong......Where I am standing (your property or mine) has NO bearing on my "Rights", period, end of story.

    That being said...... If I dont want you (with all your rights intact, as they never leave you because of your location) on my private property, I can ask you to leave. If you dont leave, well.... that is another subject we are not discussing at this time.

    But, if I have a business that is open to the "public" I HAVE INVITED YOU (with all your rights intact) ONTO my property. If I dont want certain things onto my business property, I have the choice of greatly limiting my potential customer-base by making my "business property" into a "PRIVATE" club....... If YOU want to JOIN my Private Club, THEN you AGREE with MY RULES and follow them voluntarily.

    See how they differ now? Business vs Private?

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    Property rights do not cancel out any other rights. Your property rights END at the soles of my feet. If I am ON your property, "I" do not belong to you, and my rights do not go away just because of where I am standing.
    Last edited by axeanda45; 03-07-2011 at 02:07 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by axeanda45 View Post
    So, let me get this straight... according to SOME of you posting on this thread, MY God-given human rights do not exist on your private property? They magically disappear once I cross that property line?

    Really? But didnt you INVITE me ONTO your property as a business owner? According to some of you, once someone goes onto property that belongs to someone else, only THEIR rules apply.... Let's see how that works out once you ACTUALLY think it through.....

    Under your thinking/rules..... If someone comes onto YOUR BUSINESS property (or even private, doesnt matter) YOU can require ANY or all of their rights INVALID....... So, if a good looking woman walks into YOUR yard (its YOUR property, right???) YOU can rape her with impunity if YOU want to? You can make anyone do anything you desire on YOUR Property? YOUR yard, YOUR rules, RIGHT??????

    If you, as a property owner (private or business) have the "right" to disarm me, then you ALSO have the "right" to deny me ANY of my other "rights" as you want, there is NO middle ground here, either I have "Rights" or I dont.

    No, your way of thinking on this is wrong......Where I am standing (your property or mine) has NO bearing on my "Rights", period, end of story.

    That being said...... If I dont want you (with all your rights intact, as they never leave you because of your location) on my private property, I can ask you to leave. If you dont leave, well.... that is another subject we are not discussing at this time.

    But, if I have a business that is open to the "public" I HAVE INVITED YOU (with all your rights intact) ONTO my property. If I dont want certain things onto my business property, I have the choice of greatly limiting my potential customer-base by making my "business property" into a "PRIVATE" club....... If YOU want to JOIN my Private Club, THEN you AGREE with MY RULES and follow them voluntarily.

    See how they differ now? Business vs Private?
    I think this is, perhaps, the worst explanation of rights that I've read in quite a while.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    I think this is, perhaps, the worst explanation of rights that I've read in quite a while.
    Please enlighten me on what I wrote that is not correct........

  17. #17
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by axeanda45 View Post
    Please enlighten me on what I wrote that is not correct........
    Basically my responses would mirror what OC for Me just wrote.

    Your argument seems to rest on the assumption that all rights are centered on yours. In other words, an individual's rights are centered around their vantage point and then move outward toward the rest of the world, and that everyone else must adjust accordingly to accommodate them. This is not the case, legally speaking.

    Just as you have God given rights, so also do others- including business owners. When those stated rights collide, the law steps in to mediate.

    Your rights do not "magically disappear" in any sense of the word when you step into a business, however, the freedom to exercise those rights can be somewhat restricted in order to satisfy law and the rights of the business owner, just as theirs can be. You then have a choice to make. You either agree to enter the business under those conditions, or you can decide not to. It's completely up to you. In that regard, no one is taking your rights away, you are voluntarily agreeing not to exercise them by agreeing to do business with that establishment.

    The same would be true if the situation would be reversed. If you owned a business you would not want your rights under the law to be suspended simply to satisfy a customer base. As well, you are under no legal obligation to have your rights as a home owner suspended simply because visitors stop by. They can either agree to your rules if they want to come in or they can make the choice not to visit.

    Business owners are not under any obligation to suspend their rights simply due to the fact that they are open to the public. At the same time, you are under no obligation to use that business if you feel their rules are against what you have set as your moral standards.

    See the difference? No one is saying that your rights are any more or less important than anyone else's. No one is saying that your rights are magically flushed into oblivion in order to have you cower under the weight of oppressive "big business". All we're saying is that both parties have rights and no one's right are more important that the other guys. When the two collide law steps in to formulate a workable platform from which both can make a reasonable decision as to their best course of action.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    You still are VERY confused of the DIFFERENCE between "Business" property and "Private" property.

    You can do whatever you want on your PRIVATE property as long as you dont infringe upon anothers rights........You can ask them to leave, or not even to come onto your PRIVATE property for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER.

    However (this is what you are failing to grasp) Business property has INVITED the PUBLIC onto their property... Can you comprehend what that say's? Read that 100 times if you need to (obviously, you do)

    By INVITING the PUBLIC onto their business property, that is what they get, the PUBLIC. The "Public" is anyone, regardless of the color of their skin, or ethnic background, or the language they speak.... OR WHATEVER they have in their pockets, or hanging off of their belts, or if they have braces on their teeth... or anything else you can think of.

    If you want to own a Business, you have to follow certain rules, do you not?
    Can you open a business (in the United States) and stay out of trouble with the law by denying entry to someone who walks with a cane? A Speech impediment? Fat? Too Skinny? Purple Hair? Leopard Underwear?Tall? Short?

    You can't can you? You would be shut down or fined faster than you could imagine.......

    So, how in the hell can you sit there and tell me that those type things CANNOT be discriminated against by a business owner yet something like the 1st or 2nd Amendment can be?

    I dont see how you can fail to see something so simple........

    If you dont want certain things or people on your private property, go for it, more power to ya, I have rules on my private property too.....

    I also have enough brains to know the difference between inviting or allowing friends over to my PRIVATE Property and inviting the PUBLIC over to my BUSINESS PROPERTY.

    Anti-Discrimination laws DO NOT APPLY to Private property, ever think about that? I wonder why THE LAW sees a difference between Business property and Private Property, but you do not........


    If you, as a business owner wish to make someone leave your property because they are being disruptive to your business, or for chasing off customers by being abusive... yes, you have that right, I never said you didnt. But not allowing someone on your property because they have an inanimate object in a holster on their person (which, by the way, since it seems you arent aware of this... is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT) is NOT WITHIN your so-called property rights as a Business.
    Last edited by axeanda45; 03-07-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    When the two collide law steps in to formulate a workable platform from which both can make a reasonable decision as to their best course of action.

    YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE DONE THAT....... ever heard of business laws? Regulations?
    Last edited by axeanda45; 03-07-2011 at 05:28 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Despite your rather annoying habit of pretending you know everything while others who have different points of view are pure stupid, I'll just address a few points before ending my participation here.

    However (this is what you are failing to grasp) Business property has INVITED the PUBLIC onto their property... Can you comprehend what that say's? Read that 100 times if you need to (obviously, you do)
    I tried to read it 100 times but that apostrophe in the wrong place killed my desire. However, I will submit to your superior intelligence and assume it's supposed to be there.
    By INVITING the PUBLIC onto their business property, that is what they get, the PUBLIC. The "Public" is anyone, regardless of the color of their skin, or ethnic background, or the language they speak.... OR WHATEVER they have in their pockets, or hanging off of their belts, or if they have braces on their teeth... or anything else you can think of.
    Hmm I can think of quite a bit. Let's try a couple and see if they fit into your scenario, shall we? How about if someone comes into your store with t-shirts exclaiming that black people are nothing but monkeys and should be rounded up and shot, would you have the right to refuse service?

    How about if a fancy restaurant requires people to dress in a certain way and refuse to seat anyone not wearing a tie, do they have that right or no?

    Use your superior imagination to come up with more, but I think even you can figure out where I'm going with this.

    The rest of your post, while mildly amusing, bears no reason for reply. Irrational ranting is not my favorite mode of conversation with another person. However, your follow on post brought up something interesting:

    YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE DONE THAT....... ever heard of business laws? Regulations?
    Tell me (and please make it simple so that one of my limited intelligence can understand it), these business laws and regulations that you speak of, do they justify and allow for things like dress codes, codes of conduct, and other behavioral modifications that a business owner can fall back on to justify his refusal of service at his discretion?

    After all, the US Constitution does spell out my right of free speech, does it not? Can I then go into any business I feel like going into and simply stand there and say "this place sucks, this place sucks, this place sucks" over and over again? Under your theory of Zero Rights Infringement, I can pretty much do what I want, when I want, where ever I want as long as the business is not a private one, correct?

    How about this, Sparky. You take that Second Amendment and march right down to the local Diner and demand to be let in under the authority of the US Constitution. After all, it DOES say "shall not be infringed", does it not? What can a little sign that says "No Weapons" possibly do to you when you are armed with the US Constitution, anyway? Who do these people think they are?

    That's right, take no guff from no wussy burger flipper. He's obviously too stupid to comprehend the meaning of "shall not be infringed" anyway. He might know where to put his apostrophes, but he don't know squat about freedom, does he?

    Yes sir, these here business laws are on our side. They have all this worked out. It wasn't until I began to read your posts that I understood them. I really feel stupid now. And to think that I've been following illegal laws this whole time.

    Who would have thought that all of these ordinances that states, counties, cities, and towns have been making up for years now were really just illegal pieces of legislation that we could have blown off? Who are these business owners that dare put up signs designed to keep a homie down, anyway?

    Just what gives them the right to turn me away anyway?

    Ahh yes, those very same business laws and regulations that you mention, that's what. It is in these business laws and regulations where you find the answers.

    Thanks for playing.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 03-07-2011 at 08:08 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    Despite your rather annoying habit of pretending you know everything while others who have different points of view are pure stupid, I'll just address a few points before ending my participation here.



    I tried to read it 100 times but that apostrophe in the wrong place killed my desire. However, I will submit to your superior intelligence and assume it's supposed to be there.


    Hmm I can think of quite a bit. Let's try a couple and see if they fit into your scenario, shall we? How about if someone comes into your store with t-shirts exclaiming that black people are nothing but monkeys and should be rounded up and shot, would you have the right to refuse service?

    How about if a fancy restaurant requires people to dress in a certain way and refuse to seat anyone not wearing a tie, do they have that right or no?

    Use your superior imagination to come up with more, but I think even you can figure out where I'm going with this.

    The rest of your post, while mildly amusing, bears no reason for reply. Irrational ranting is not my favorite mode of conversation with another person. However, your follow on post brought up something interesting:



    Tell me (and please make it simple so that one of my limited intelligence can understand it), these business laws and regulations that you speak of, do they justify and allow for things like dress codes, codes of conduct, and other behavioral modifications that a business owner can fall back on to justify his refusal of service at his discretion?

    After all, the US Constitution does spell out my right of free speech, does it not? Can I then go into any business I feel like going into and simply stand there and say "this place sucks, this place sucks, this place sucks" over and over again? Under your theory of Zero Rights Infringement, I can pretty much do what I want, when I want, where ever I want as long as the business is not a private one, correct?

    How about this, Sparky. You take that Second Amendment and march right down to the local Diner and demand to be let in under the authority of the US Constitution. After all, it DOES say "shall not be infringed", does it not? What can a little sign that says "No Weapons" possibly do to you when you are armed with the US Constitution, anyway? Who do these people think they are?

    That's right, take no guff from no wussy burger flipper. He's obviously too stupid to comprehend the meaning of "shall not be infringed" anyway. He might know where to put his apostrophes, but he don't know squat about freedom, does he?

    Yes sir, these here business laws are on our side. They have all this worked out. It wasn't until I began to read your posts that I understood them. I really feel stupid now. And to think that I've been following illegal laws this whole time.

    Who would have thought that all of these ordinances that states, counties, cities, and towns have been making up for years now were really just illegal pieces of legislation that we could have blown off? Who are these business owners that dare put up signs designed to keep a homie down, anyway?

    Just what gives them the right to turn me away anyway?

    Ahh yes, those very same business laws and regulations that you mention, that's what. It is in these business laws and regulations where you find the answers.

    Thanks for playing.
    I have lost count how many times in this post you actually proved my point and disproved your own. Wow, you might want to re-read what you posted and do a major edit job "sparky"

    Thank you for letting me play (and win)

  22. #22
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    lol ok, you win.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gallia county, OH, ,
    Posts
    39
    ---Moderator Edited--
    Private Property = Private

    Business Property = Business

    With me so far?

    Let me tell you a story about Joe Blow...mmmmk?

    Joe Blow owns a house on 2 acres just outside of town..... This is his PRIVATE property....... Here, he can allow or even dis-allow whomever he wants onto this PRIVATE property. There are no Laws about whether he can or cannot say or post a sign saying "no African-Americans allowed here"

    Joe Blow also owns a BUSINESS property in town....... This is his BUSINESS property....... Here, He has to abide by certain LAWS AND REGULATIONS in order to operate a BUSINESS in this particular town, in this particular state, and in this particular country.... (are you still here? GOOD!) Now, lets say Joe Blowputs up a sign on the door of that BUSINESS that states "No African Americans Allowed" Hmmmmm, wonder what is gonna happen to Joe Blow and his BUSINESS??????? Well, he will probably almost immediatly get a notice that he is NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT......

    I wonder why that doesnt happen when he does the same type of thing EXACTLY on his PRIVATE property???? Maybe because they are NOT THE SAME????


    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, say it isnt so!!!!!!!!!!

    *GASP* I thought that business property is Private property.............., That is what someone on here keeps trying to tell me......, Isn't it??????????


    *****

    --Moderator Warning--
    Personal attacks and insults will NOT be tolerated.
    Last edited by axeanda45; 03-07-2011 at 08:41 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    856
    Relax dude, you win.

    Arguing with a bucket of half-dried paint has never been my strong point. Grab a beer, sit back, and revel in your victory.

    I'm no match for your agonizingly superior intellect. In fact, it hurts my feelings a little.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,578
    Quote Originally Posted by axeanda45 View Post
    Property rights do not cancel out any other rights. Your property rights END at the soles of my feet. If I am ON your property, "I" do not belong to you, and my rights do not go away just because of where I am standing.
    Your "right" to stand on the soles of your feet upon property that belongs to another is subservient to the rights of the owner of the property your feet are standing upon.


    A business owner does not need a sign to say you are not welcome. He can walk up to you, tell you that "you are not welcome in my store," and tell you to depart. If you do not, he is well within his rights to call law enforcement to have you removed, as once you refused to depart, you are trespassing on his property.


    It is of note that I presented all of this information to you without once resorting to insulting sentences.


    Depending upon the specific statute in the state where such business is located, a sign indicating "no guns allowed" may either a) be notice of trespass that can result in arrest if violated or b) not worth the paper it is printed upon. But, barring that, trespass law should always be followed; whether you are of ethnic persuasion of ANY kind, holstering a firearm, wearing a t-shirt that says "I'm with stupid," or simply minding your own business. It is the business owners job to mind HIS business as he sees fit.
    Last edited by wrightme; 03-07-2011 at 09:28 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •