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Thread: Just got pulled over in Charlotte/University Area

  1. #1
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    Just got pulled over in Charlotte/University Area

    I drove down the street to get a pack of smokes and when I came to the light where the gas station was there was a CMPD patrol car next to me in the other lane . I turned left into the gas station and he crossed over and followed. The place was packed and as I pulled around to the pumps he turned on the lights. Of course I had my Springfield 1911 sitting on the seat so I rolled down the window and kept my hands on the wheel and when he approached I notified him that I had my handgun on the seat. He kindly asked me to step out in front of the car while he secures it. He then told me he pulled me over for expired tags . I couldn't believe he seen that from the other lane. He wrote me a ticket put my gun back in the trunk and asked me not to reload it in the parking lot because he didn't want someone to see that and call the police. His backup asked if I had a permit and I said no thats why it was on the seat. Everything went smooth they asked me to open my trunk and the placed my gun in the trunk and closed it . Handed me my ticket and said have a nice day. All in all it was a smooth transaction. I just hope the all go this well . Hopefully I dont get pulled over again but if I do I hope they all are as nice as these 2 .

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    Hmmm. Interesting. Learn something new every day. In this case that cops ask to open the trunk.

    I think I'll ask for the ticket, then suggest they just put the gun back on the front seat from which they seized. "Sorry, officer. I have a heightened expectation of privacy in the trunk of my car, and I do not consent to a plain-view search of my trunk."
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-05-2011 at 01:39 AM.

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    What's up with Charlotte LEO's and trunks? You're not the first one to mention that. The NCHP that I dealt with just put it on my passenger seat, and we locked the doors. Trunk, unloaded, then ask you not to reload it. Uhm, no thanks. And what Citizen said. It's a fishing trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I think I'll ask for the ticket, then suggest they just put the gun back on the front seat from which they seized. "Sorry, officer. I have a heightened expectation of privacy in the trunk of my car, and I do not consent to a plain-view search of my trunk."
    Well this was my first LEO encounter with my gun and maybe next time things will be different. They did not look through my trunk and ya obviously they could check iit out for the half second it was open to place my gun inside but I have a lot of stuff in there and they would h ave needed way more time to look around . They just put it in and closed it. I dont have anything illegal so I figured if thats what makes them comfortable to place it in the trunk then thats what there gonna do. But you better believe I didn't take there advice and wait til I got to my final destination to reload it. Basically they were trying to tell me to wait until I got home to take it out and reload it. He was an older officer which also surprised me I would have thought they would give you more problems than the younger ones.

    Its funny after I was free to go I parked so i could go inside to buy some smokes and a drink they both waited in the parking lot until I left. I guess they wanted to make sure all the college sheep that were there are safe from the man with the big ol gun lol.

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    I would of pulled out of the trunk and reloaded it and put it in the front seat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwhunter65 View Post
    I would of pulled out of the trunk and reloaded it and put it in the front seat.
    I'm with you...

    Reload...holster it ... conceal it and walk into the store to buy some beer...

    With your gun in your trunk. it is USELESS... The reason most people carry is for protection....
    If you wanted to comply with the officers REQUEST... Ask for a escort home... you know to feel safe now that your gun/tire iron is safely in the trunk.

    Throw donuts on the ground and when they go to get them retrieve your gun...

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    I was stopped in Charlotte back in April, the officer asked me to open the trunk also.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...icycle-Officer

    I have a friend who has had dealings with CMPD more than he cares to talk about, and he says every time he has been armed the officer put his weapon in the trunk when everything was said and done.

    I have a close friend who owns a business there in Charlotte, and knows the Captain well, I may ask them too ask if thats something they are trained to do.

    My uncle was driving in Charlotte last week (at night)
    He got a text message so he pulled in to a gas station to read it.
    He was sitting there replying to the text when a CMPD Officer pulls in behind him, and turns on the blue light.
    The Officer walks up and asks for his INFO, and then said his tag was expired (Which I know is not true because I was with him when he went and renewed it.)

    Another Officer arrived, and shined his light around in the car.
    I don't know the conversation they all had, but in the end no ticket was issued.
    His tag was NOT dead so I am guessing it was a fishing expo, and the Officer used the tag as Probable cause.
    Last edited by hotrod8812; 03-05-2011 at 11:28 AM.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Good to know all this about the Charlotte area. I guess whenever I'm there, the recorder will be ready to go, and I'm forewarned that I'll likely have to be prepared to deny consent several times.
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    Next time and I hope there isn't but if there is I will ask the officer to put it back on my seat . And if he insists I will ask him to keep his in the trunk. I probably should buy a recorder for good measure if Im going to do that.

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    Do you by law have to put your gun in the trunk at their request or by law are you legal to put just where they found it where it WAS perfectly legal....I'm not sure...[/B]

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    What's up with Charlotte LEO's and trunks? You're not the first one to mention that. The NCHP that I dealt with just put it on my passenger seat, and we locked the doors. Trunk, unloaded, then ask you not to reload it. Uhm, no thanks. And what Citizen said. It's a fishing trip.
    The more I think about it, the more I agree--fishing trip in the trunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry1981 View Post
    Well this was my first LEO encounter with my gun and maybe next time things will be different.
    I understand. I wasn't criticizing. Literally just learning from your experience.


    They did not look through my trunk and ya obviously they could check iit out for the half second it was open to place my gun inside but I have a lot of stuff in there and they would h ave needed way more time to look around . They just put it in and closed it. I dont have anything illegal so I figured...
    That's the potentially dangerous thought.

    First, let me say we each have to decide how to deal with the individual cop in front us during the exact circumstances surround the encounter. For example, maybe an OCer is on his way to pick up the kids from day care, and cannot afford to potentially extend an encounter by standing fast on his rights against a cop with an attitude.

    Regarding absence of trunk-borne contraband, there are more variables besides the driver's knowledge of the legality of his possessions.

    For example, one fella consented to a trunk search, and was arrested for possession of burglary tools because he had a crow-bar in the trunk. Of course, it was tossed out before it went to trial, but he had endure the ignominy of arrest, and the arrest record which local and state courts cannot compel the fedgov to erase from their records, even if the local court does expunge.

    All it takes is for an aspirin or colorful pill to have fallen out of something, and the cop to spot it. Now, he can claim RAS for possession, maybe probable cause for a search.

    Part of the equation is that police bring their own experience and knowledge into the game. Who knows what item a cop might say is frequently found among drug dealers or other criminal activity. If a butt-head cop sees a charge scale used in reloading, or even just the box, wanta bet whether he claims probable cause for a search for possession with intent to distribute. Who knows what innocent items are thought by cops to have frequent connection to some criminal activity.
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-05-2011 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    Do you by law have to put your gun in the trunk at their request or by law are you legal to put just where they found it where it WAS perfectly legal....I'm not sure...[/B]
    Heh, heh, heh. If they say you are free to go, their authority to compel you is at an end.

    It is as though, "You just said I'm free to go, officer. You have no further authority to compel me. If you are so afraid of a lawfully armed citizen, you go hide behind your car, until I leave."

    You see, by returning your weapon to you, they have already admitted they don't believe you are dangerous. Conversely, they would never dream of returning a weapon to someone they thought was dangerous. This business is just about cops exercising control over you, and refusing to use judgement themselves, while pretending validity in the one-in-million chance you might actually reload and shoot at them. Maybe even more than one-in-million given the number of traffic stops in the US versus the number of cops shot while returning a lawfully possessed firearm.

    Of course, I'm not really recommending you use the quote above. You might get yourself shot if you actually do it. Or, your gun seized.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Other potential personal considerations aside -

    I will not consensually allow search of my vehicle or person nor will I voluntarily follow instructions w/o legal basis i.e. don't reload until you have left the area.

    I will cooperate with the spirit and intent of the law in a courteous manner.

    BTW - expired tag tickets are generally dismissed upon proof of renewal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    BTW - expired tag tickets are generally dismissed upon proof of renewal.
    Ya he gave me until the end of April to take care of it. I totally didn't know it was past due .

    He told me I could load it when I reached my destination which I was already at to buy smokes. And I told him that and he said he didnt want someone to call them because someone was loading a gun in the parking lot. He didnt say to wait until I got home . But I do get everyones point. I thought they would have just put it back on the seat.

    Now I also wonder what would have happened when his backup asked me if I had a permit and I said no thats why it was on the seat. What if I just said no and didn't point out that it was out in the open on the seat and the I was knowledged about open carry. I wonder if I was clueless would they have tried to hold me on some charge of concealed weapon . I can see why knowing what your doing can really make things easier for you .

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    O and also I wonder can they attach notes to your info like if you get pulled over and had a gun can they attach a note somehow and next time someone runs your plate it will say owns a firearm just like if you had your permit it and the run your license it will say you have one.

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    Several points worth mentioning here -

    1. Don't drive on expired tags - it may (will?) effect whether your insurance policy remains in force.
    2. Don't lie to a LEO, but they can lie to you, legally.
    3. Your permit info is attached to you driving license, not to the vehicle tag, but the owner of said vehicle comes up on a tag check and thus the permit info.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-05-2011 at 07:13 PM. Reason: added #3
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Several points worth mentioning here -

    1. Don't drive on expired tags - it may (will?) effect whether your insurance policy remains in force.
    2. Don't lie to a LEO, but they can lie to you, legally.
    3. Your permit info is attached to you driving license, not to the vehicle tag, but the owner of said vehicle comes up on a tag check and thus the permit info.

    Cite, please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Cite, please.
    I believe in Frazier v. Cupp it was ruled that law enfocement may lie to a suspect in order to obtain a confession. If you lie to law enforcement you will land in some hot water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Several points worth mentioning here -
    1. Don't drive on expired tags - it may (will?) effect whether your insurance policy remains in force.
    2. Your permit info is attached to you driving license, not to the vehicle tag, but the owner of said vehicle comes up on a tag check and thus the permit info.
    1. I was unaware and agree I will be taking care of it immediately
    2. Not sure why you brought up lying
    3. I was wondering if you didnt have a permit and you were OC can they attach some kind of note that another officer can see if you were to get pulled over again.


    If you brought up lying because I was talking about when he asked if I had a permit then what I meant was I dont have a permit and said no when asked and said I was open carrying it was on the seat. What I was asking was if I had just answered no and not shown my knowledge by saying "no thats why it was on the seat" do you think they could try and get you for concealment or something just to get another gun off the street. So basically its good to show that you know what your doing.
    Last edited by Jerry1981; 03-05-2011 at 08:51 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Cite, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by N605TW View Post
    I believe in Frazier v. Cupp it was ruled that law enfocement may lie to a suspect in order to obtain a confession. If you lie to law enforcement you will land in some hot water.
    Agree.

    City-san was just testing me on that which should be common knowledge and accepted here.
    http://www.criminalattorney.com/blog...an-lie-to-you/
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-06-2011 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Image failed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Agree.

    City-san was just testing me on that which should be common knowledge and accepted here.
    http://www.criminalattorney.com/blog...an-lie-to-you/
    Where is the part about you cannot lie to the police. If stopped by the police should I ask am I under oath as well as am I being detained. I have no problems with believing that police can lie until they are under oath but why are citizens automatically under oath? Can you be charged with purgery or is it a different charge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Good to know all this about the Charlotte area. I guess whenever I'm there, the recorder will be ready to go, and I'm forewarned that I'll likely have to be prepared to deny consent several times.
    Same here. And, I'll continue to avoid that area...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    Where is the part about you cannot lie to the police. If stopped by the police should I ask am I under oath as well as am I being detained. I have no problems with believing that police can lie until they are under oath but why are citizens automatically under oath? Can you be charged with purgery or is it a different charge?
    Opinions this time


    Perjury it is not, without having been placed under oath first as in court or when giving dispositions.

    One opens them self to a multitude of other possibilities from just irritating the officer to obstruction of justice or impeding an investigation.

    Frequently a better tactic is to answer questions with a question or in the worst case SFU and say nothing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Don't volunteer information... Only answer questions asked.. with a question.. While your recorder is on.

    Q."Do you have a permit?"...
    A. For what?
    Q. For the handgun..
    A. Do I need one?.. or What permit would that be?
    Leo. A CHP....
    A. Its no concealed
    Leo. open your trunk so I can put your gun in it
    A. NO!!! I don't consent to a search... You can put my gun on my front seat...
    I can just see a Leo putting your gun in your truck then calling a buddy to pull you over and charge you with CCW

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