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Thread: Bouncers have similar rights to police when using force

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Bouncers have similar rights to police when using force

    If you go to a bar as a designated driver and can not open carry or concealed carry, it looks like you only have a few other options if all hell breaks loose, Be very good at hand to hand combat, have enough backup friends to outnumber the bouncers, or calmly and quitley avoid and back down from any and all confrontation at all cost.

    http://www.kndu.com/Global/story.asp?S=14191896
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    As the police matron in the article explains it, they have the same rights as anyone else: to use only as much force as is necessary to resist an attack.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    As the article also explains, they numerous bouncers beat this guy more than needed and no charges or arrest's were made. It's all about a power trip, above the law.
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    The article states that his recollection of events and the bouncers are different. The bouncers claim he bit one of them and he claims they pushed him so hard he fell down and that a foot was put on his face as well as he was kicked while on the ground. The article does not explain that the bouncers went too far, it only points out parts of the many sides to this story.
    I don't know the whole story, but why would he return after closing "for Justice"? Seems like he might have been a bit drunk and or belligerent. Did he deserve a beat down at the hands of several bouncers, maybe not, but I'm thinking he might have been better served by returning the following day, after having slept on the situation, instead of coming back after closing "For justice".

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Alcohol, that wonderful social catalyst. It can turn small men into giants, smart men into fools, and ordinary people into a-holes.

    Going back "after the club closed for Justice"??? Why not go and file a complaint at the Police Department. He might not get Justice but there's also a better chance that he wouldn't get the beat down.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Alcohol, that wonderful social catalyst. It can turn small men into giants, smart men into fools, and ordinary people into a-holes.

    Going back "after the club closed for Justice"??? Why not go and file a complaint at the Police Department. He might not get Justice but there's also a better chance that he wouldn't get the beat down.
    I think actually doesn't transform people at all.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I think actually doesn't transform people at all.

    Vino veratus
    Yup, intoxication is an excuse to behave in ways which are socially unacceptable, but which the intoxicated person wishes to do anyway.

    And our society encourages use in this fashion by continuing to blame everything, anything, on substances.

    I, on the other hand, blame nothing on substances. There is no substance which prevents judgement before it is used. And very few which truly do so after.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I think actually doesn't transform people at all.

    Vino veratus
    You're probably right but it does remove one's inhibitions.

    Here's an article that shows and increase in violence among intoxicated.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...iencequestions

    Previous government figures show almost a quarter of assaults occurring in or near pubs and bars, and around half of violent crimes last year were thought to be committed while under the influence.
    This was published in the UK where "Pubs and Bars" are pretty much an institution.

    Maybe "amnesia" that seems to be a part of "the morning after" is a good thing. Not everyone would like to remember the dumb things they did while $h!tfaced.

    Another reason why alcohol and carrying don't go together.
    Last edited by amlevin; 03-05-2011 at 01:58 PM.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    "Bouncers have similar rights to police when using force" actually the same as the rights every citizen has, RCW 9A.16

    It is highly likely this young man had been drinking before returning to the scene looking for some type of payback.

    It was stupid but still does not dissolve any law if it occurred as described.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    You're probably right but it does remove one's inhibitions.

    Here's an article that shows and increase in violence among intoxicated.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...iencequestions



    This was published in the UK where "Pubs and Bars" are pretty much an institution.

    Maybe "amnesia" that seems to be a part of "the morning after" is a good thing. Not everyone would like to remember the dumb things they did while $h!tfaced.

    Another reason why alcohol and carrying don't go together.
    I really would bet that even without alcohol that much of the same would happen at the pubs. But we are in agreement about loosing some inhibitions, that also coincides with the vino veratus theory, I still think that those that fight is because they would want to fight anyway with out the drink.

    I agree with Marshaul though it comes down to choices, I have a beer but I know my limits and and choose not to over drink (I don't like getting drunk anyway the lack of motorskills and the feeling sick is not worth it to me). I still don't believe that being totally $h!tfaced, I'd suddenly lack judgement about killing someone.

    I have had lunch and dinner with other OC'ers and several of us have decided to have a beer with our meal and nothing bad happened, and everything was kept well within what would be considered the boundaries of moderation.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    The old argument that I was drinking and did not know what I was doing is just another excuse to not take personal responsability for ones actions. Looks like this guy learned the lesson that if you are going to play with the big boys you had better be a big boy before you start the game.

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    Alcohol seems to be a personality flaw magnifier, not a flaw creator. This guys excuse of going back to the bar for justice and to let them know he was going to report it to the police? Might as well have tied a raw steak around his neck and jumped into a lions cage. Bouncers tend to be bouncers because of two things. They are big, and they aren't the smartest people. Walking up to them and telling them you're going to tattle on them, while drunk? Not smart.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadada View Post
    Alcohol seems to be a personality flaw magnifier, not a flaw creator. This guys excuse of going back to the bar for justice and to let them know he was going to report it to the police? Might as well have tied a raw steak around his neck and jumped into a lions cage. Bouncers tend to be bouncers because of two things. They are big, and they aren't the smartest people. Walking up to them and telling them you're going to tattle on them, while drunk? Not smart.
    Then what does it say about me? I get tired when I drink.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Then what does it say about me? I get tired when I drink.
    You aren't drinking enough.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Then what does it say about me? I get tired when I drink.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    You aren't drinking enough.
    Ha!!!! Funny, but I am the same way I just wanna sleep after a few drinks.

    Reminds me of the Bill Cosby quote when told that cocaine enhances your personality.

    "What if you are an @$$hole?!"
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 03-05-2011 at 11:02 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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